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Thread: Why am I not surprised to see any warriors posting that they are OP now .

  1. #61
    Ascendant Charlice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fysts View Post
    Actually if you had read my post you would have realized I had to be a 50 since I said I was wearing plaque gear . Beside I do no think they will change it anyway so I will just run my warrior more and stomp around.
    How much valour is on your plaque gear btw? Why even complain if you're not in PvP gear.


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  2. #62
    Ascendant Vyxagallanxchi's Avatar
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    WTB a video showing these so-called OP warriors. I have yet to encounter such an elusive entity. Seriously... where are they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    Think of a 30 meter circle around all ranged dps rogues and mages. Ranged dps can stand in the back line and focus fire targets without worrying about mobility and most forms of cc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    Sounds like an excellent plan for your healers to follow as well, as they have an even longer range on their heals.

  3. #63
    Champion of Telara
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    Actually, warriors are deadly now. OP? Not sure about that. Definitely fear them more than a rogue, and a well specced warrior is tough to take down.

    Warriors got a double buff of sorts. The AP change increased their dmg. However, the warden nerf indirectly benefited them. Warriors problem in 1.7 was that in terms of burst, they were not that good (there were good burst specs around, but most people played them poorly). It wasn't that warrior DPS was bad.... but PvP was all about burst... trying to kill the guy before the healers have enough time to react and save them, after which a warrior will never be able to out damage the healer. With healing nerfed, a warrior beating on a target can now DPS faster than a warden can HPS him. Overall, the effectiveness of warrior DPS was improved greatly.

    Again, how OP it actually is is hard to say. Too many bads jumping onto forums to complain too quickly. I would say give it some time and don't senselessly QQ. It was senseless QQ that got clerics a hard nerf bat.... we had a sensible nerf in the no-SS stacking.... now its just sad... playable, but sad.
    Last edited by masakari81; 04-23-2012 at 07:14 PM.

  4. #64
    Sword of Telara
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    Warriors have very good bursts now, there is no denying it. I agree that this could do with some fine-tuning.

    That said, the general reduction in healing plays a big part in this as well. The current incarnation of Wardens is unfortunate. A vocal part of the cleric base cried "bloody murder" when HoTs stacking was removed (keeping individual Warden heals intact). Developers hence changed that you could do HoT stacking but HoTs in general were reduced significantly across the board.

    Guess what? The individual warden suffered, and they suffered greatly as WFs more often than not are solo queued affairs with healers often left to fend for themselves as DPS gets tunnel visioned. Net effect? Death after death after death for the individual warden leading to less players speccing Warden which defeated the purpose of Warden stacking in the first place.

    I posted this previously before v1.8 and true enough we are seeing this on live. http://forums.riftgame.com/public-te...ml#post3703193

    DPS was increased across the board without increase in valor. Warrior DPS increased the most and this is amplified due to the nature of the class being in your face all the time. The lack of healers due to the warden nerf made the barrage of warriors even more obvious.
    Last edited by Blackblade; 04-23-2012 at 07:30 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackblade View Post
    Warriors have very good bursts now, there is no denying it. I agree that this could do with some fine-tuning.

    That said, the general reduction in healing plays a big part in this as well. The current incarnation of Wardens is unfortunate. A vocal part of the cleric base cried "bloody murder" when HoTs stacking was removed (keeping individual Warden heals intact). Developers hence changed that you could do HoT stacking but HoTs in general were reduced significantly across the board.

    Guess what? The individual warden suffered, and they suffered greatly as WFs more often than not are solo queued affairs with healers often left to fend for themselves as DPS gets tunnel visioned. Net effect? Death after death after death for the individual warden leading to less players speccing Warden which defeated the purpose of Warden stacking in the first place.

    I posted this previously before v1.8 and true enough we are seeing this on live. http://forums.riftgame.com/public-te...ml#post3703193

    DPS was increased across the board without increase in valor. Warrior DPS increased the most and this is amplified due to the nature of the class being in your face all the time. The lack of healers due to the warden nerf made the barrage of warriors even more obvious.
    up valor 5-10% and increase health pools imo. Trion has a major problem in that the dps increase curve is MUCH steeper than the hp increase curve. Endurance simply needs to grant more hp per point and pve damage needs to be upped to compensate. Or they could just increase valor to obscene levels and nerf heals some more but w/e.

  6. #66
    Telaran
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    Default Does valor even matter anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlice View Post
    How much valour is on your plaque gear btw? Why even complain if you're not in PvP gear.
    I guess you missed the whole point of what I was saying.

  7. #67
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerwel View Post
    up valor 5-10% and increase health pools imo. Trion has a major problem in that the dps increase curve is MUCH steeper than the hp increase curve. Endurance simply needs to grant more hp per point and pve damage needs to be upped to compensate. Or they could just increase valor to obscene levels and nerf heals some more but w/e.
    This is true. For some reason damage keeps going up, but not anyone's health. I guess because it's pve focused, but maybe it's time to just make bosses hit harder and give players more HP, or soon we'll be playing with 90% valor.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerwel View Post
    ..... Wow, another one who knows nothing about the warrior class nor pvp in general. You sir are a grade A bad. Armor means NOTHING in this game. A warrior literally has 10% more mitigation to PHYSICAL damage (which no one uses, or they have massive armor penetration, except warriors... fancy that) than a mage. My valor focus p40 has 1k (8400) more hp than a full dps focused pyro/dom (~7-7500).... so no we dont have massive hp. Unless your talking tanks, and they hit like little girls so why your concerned im not so sure. And stuns? Warriors best stun is 3 seconds.... LOL.

    As for the damage portion, the following souls can all do similar or better damage than every warrior build: Pyro, Storm caller, Pyro/dom (with more utility and survivability), cabilist, inquisitor, MM, and NB (which out bursts warriors, has better survivability, and better mobility). One really interesting thing to note, all of the specs listed here have 30+m ranges but nb, which has better survivability and mobility than a warrior. Ranged players need to learn to not face tank warriors, because they can hurt you now too.
    except warriors have gap closers so the range argument does not hold water, toe to toe who has advantage sir? lol so dont compare about the range to a warriors range means nothing you can gap close easy to any class,

  9. #69
    Ascendant ShalarLight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maihes View Post
    Warriors are insane in pvp right now.

    What I find unfanthomable, is that Trion didn't listen to anybody on the PTS and after bold face stating that they weren't going to allow warriors to go out in their current form, they did just that.

    I have a 50 in every class. I exclusively PvP. I know how OP warriors are right now. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. They need to tone down Riftblade and Champion alot.

    On the heal nerf, I feel they should have just moved it deeper into the paladin tree and left it as it was.

    All this is going to do, is cause more people to quit the game out of frustration. People that will never come back.
    I personally think they should keep the damage like it is, and lower the range on riftwalk to 10m. Champs are do or dont, RB's retain the ability to stand off, build up points, riftwalk in, riftstorm and kill everything around them, or leave them severly crippled( and most convictions spent and healers reaching for long casts) for a few elemental aoe attacks to clean up. If they had to get closer to use the better gap closer, it would feel a lot more balanced.
    Last edited by ShalarLight; 04-24-2012 at 06:49 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    FYI Riftstalker running isn't even pve. .... You might as well call riftstalker running PVE.

  10. #70
    Rift Disciple Jack Burton's Avatar
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    Here is the truth: Trion developers are simply not as good as other developers at designing good PVP.

    They are, in fact, horrible at it. It's the worst PVP I've seen in an MMO, ever, and they should be ashamed at the poor quality of the product they ship out.

    I'm amazed they go to such great lengths to steal PVE ideas from WOW and other MMOs, then cannot even bother to steal the good PVP ideas from other MMOs.

    Oh well, GW2 beta is this weekend. Looking forward to that.
    Last edited by Jack Burton; 04-24-2012 at 07:30 AM.

  11. #71
    Ascendant ShalarLight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burton View Post
    Here is the truth: Trion developers are simply not as good as other developers at designing good PVP.

    They are, in fact, horrible at it. It's the worst PVP I've seen in an MMO, ever, and they should be ashamed at the poor quality of the product they ship out.

    I'm amazed they go to such great lengths to steal PVE ideas from WOW and other MMOs, then cannot even bother to steal the good PVP ideas from other MMOs.

    Oh well, GW2 beta is this weekend. Looking forward to that.
    I disagree with you. I think the pvp developers understand what the classic downfall of classes are in other mmo's and give tools to those classes to ease that classic downfall. Example would be riftwalk for warrior, neddra's essence for mage, fel blades for rogues, hots applying a heal on first tick for clerics etc. I think that sometimes they make skills a little too strong when combined with the "no classic fault" mentality of designing the class, but I get a sense of a lot of things in rift were designed around the classic failings of certain styles in pvp, meaning they very much understood what the classic failings of certain styles were and sometimes did a too good of a job removing weaknesses (GoS?).

    I think that occasionally they allow the class to do what they were classicly good at too well in combination with the reduction in faults, and often time it is demanded by the community as they dont get/like the "feel" of the ultra-combatant design.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    FYI Riftstalker running isn't even pve. .... You might as well call riftstalker running PVE.

  12. #72
    RIFT Guide Writer Sebb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    someone hit me for 3k, and i have NEVER seen the icon they hit me with and have never been hit that hard.
    but it wasnt like getting hit with a fumilate or bolt, it was WAAY worse since i got hit with 3 other abilities in the same 1-2 sec timestamp and I went from 10k hp down to about HALF. so, im about as geared as you can be in this game, so he must have done about TEN THOUSAND points of raw damage to me over a 2 sec time stamp. that kills any starting toon outright since I have 50% damage reduction.

    Was he like some phenomincal player? no not reaklly, he went 12kills-10deaths. just some zergling who can run in spam his macro and get a kill on anyone he targets, if i was getting rolled by someone i knew and someone who had a cool score like 17-2 and saw him pick his spots and use actual skill.. i woudnt be as bothered by it.

    you can tell what class is OP by how many you see in a WF. i can complain all day about getting hit by inquisitors but i dont run into many clerics much less high damage inquisitors. I can complain about stormcallers lightning burst, but i really dont see many stormcallers.
    TL;DR:

    "I got killed by something that i don't know what it is or who casted it, but the nearest person was a warrior so umm.... NERF WARRIORS!!!"


    This reminds me of the time someones mage video showed them getting absolutely melted by a warrior, except the damage they were taking was from the rogue in the back that was RFS on them.

    Warriors in 1.7 were pretty well balanced. We had a bit of burst, a bit of defensive, a small amount of survivability.

    1.8 changed the game, they took away a lot of our survivability builds, so we spec full dps now. More dps. Warriors melt people faster, but they die even quicker than before.
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  13. #73
    Ascendant Steelwind's Avatar
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    So long as insta squirrel plus insta fireballs exist in pvp, Warriors are exactly where they should be right now in 1.8. If you let a Warrior close the gap on you, then you deserve to die. Warriors have no healing soul or any true range souls. Now move on and play.
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  14. #74
    Shield of Telara Starsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burton View Post
    Here is the truth: Trion developers are simply not as good as other developers at designing good PVP.

    They are, in fact, horrible at it. It's the worst PVP I've seen in an MMO, ever, and they should be ashamed at the poor quality of the product they ship out.

    I'm amazed they go to such great lengths to steal PVE ideas from WOW and other MMOs, then cannot even bother to steal the good PVP ideas from other MMOs.

    Oh well, GW2 beta is this weekend. Looking forward to that.
    You obviously haven't done much pvp in MMOs if you think this is the worst pvp ever, lol. Go one to GW2, nothing but more instanced game play over and over again. Rift already offers instanced game play and the pve is far superior than anything GW2 will have to offer.

  15. #75
    Rift Disciple Jack Burton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShalarLight View Post
    I disagree with you. I think the pvp developers understand what the classic downfall of classes are in other mmo's and give tools to those classes to ease that classic downfall. Example would be riftwalk for warrior, neddra's essence for mage, fel blades for rogues, hots applying a heal on first tick for clerics etc. I think that sometimes they make skills a little too strong when combined with the "no classic fault" mentality of designing the class, but I get a sense of a lot of things in rift were designed around the classic failings of certain styles in pvp, meaning they very much understood what the classic failings of certain styles were and sometimes did a too good of a job removing weaknesses (GoS?).

    I think that occasionally they allow the class to do what they were classicly good at too well in combination with the reduction in faults, and often time it is demanded by the community as they dont get/like the "feel" of the ultra-combatant design.
    I understand where you are coming from, but I disagree. My first toon was a warrior, which I started playing in beta and leveled to 50 and did a lot of PVP with. The tools they gave to warrior, in beta, were and are OP. In fact, during beta 2 or beta 3 I provided feedback that the following abilities were imbalanced:
    - passive healing reduction on crit
    - riftwalk refreshing on crit
    - flamespear damage and range (it had no cooldown back then)

    And a couple of other things as well. These things are still imbalanced and it shows either a lack of good PVP design or an overwhelming desire to cater their PVP game to players with little-no skill.

    'Classic faults' are there for a good reason: they provide necessary checks for classes and specs. You cannot 'design them out' without introducing some other equalizing factor in the class/spec.

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