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Thread: NEWS FLASH: Rogues and warriors are OP

  1. #31
    Rift Chaser Ferago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burton View Post
    This melee argument is pure bunk. First of all, warriors all get heroic leap which cuts the distance down to 20m. Secondly, they get at least 1, if not more, closer on top of that. Once on top of you, it's damn near impossible to get them off of you. Especially if they are a riftblade, since riftwalk resets with every crit and rank 40 warriors are running around with ~40% crit.

    Even if you ignore heroic leap, warriors will go from 35m to 20m in about 2 seconds, meaning you can get maybe 1 attack off before they are on top of you.

    Then what? Run away? This is a terrific strategy considering most warfronts are centered upon the concept of controlling a particular focal point on the map. instead of dying, you just give up your position. and lose.

    It's a poor argument and people who use it are either fooling themselves or are truly ignorant. If it's the latter then they should.. well, I think Black Dynamite said it best: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuqHK69N6_w&t=5m
    If a warrior is wearing all PvP gear... they don't have 40% crit...

    I can't get anywhere when I'm squirreled, even with riftwalk(and planar blade gets eradicated within 10 seconds typically), then I get blasted if I try to move after storm shackle gets planted and my cleanse doesn't work. Rogues still run faster and snare constantly, and my mage takes less damage than my warrior while maintaining the ability to heal and DPS.

    This "machine gun" effect is from all the warriors who were stacking strength and AP because the tooltip said that was the important stat. Well... now that strength and AP do something, they hit harder.

    Rogues are hitting harder than before, too. Hey, mages still have the most utility and biggest crits! Clerics still heal through damage while doing great damage.

    It's a poor argument to compare the ease of range to melee. I don't need to comment on how you seem to think a ground based leap equates to melee attacks being easier to land than ranged attacks... that line speaks for itself.
    Last edited by Ferago; 04-19-2012 at 03:04 PM.

  2. #32
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burton View Post
    This melee argument is pure bunk. First of all, warriors all get heroic leap which cuts the distance down to 20m. Secondly, they get at least 1, if not more, closer on top of that. Once on top of you, it's damn near impossible to get them off of you. Especially if they are a riftblade, since riftwalk resets with every crit and rank 40 warriors are running around with ~40% crit.

    Even if you ignore heroic leap, warriors will go from 35m to 20m in about 2 seconds, meaning you can get maybe 1 attack off before they are on top of you.

    Then what? Run away? This is a terrific strategy considering most warfronts are centered upon the concept of controlling a particular focal point on the map. instead of dying, you just give up your position. and lose.

    It's a poor argument and people who use it are either fooling themselves or are truly ignorant. If it's the latter then they should.. well, I think Black Dynamite said it best: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuqHK69N6_w&t=5m
    LOL. So your a range player that fails at positioning and kiting is what your trying to tell me? Ignore range it means nothing, its but the best defense in ANY game. Also ignore the fact that I have specs that hit just as hard, but acutally have defensive abilities/ccs/controls. Seriously if you think its so easy to be a melee class, by all means play one. You will soon notice just how nice having range is, I ceratainly feel it when I switch from my cleric to my warrior. And yes running away works wonders, you dont have to run accross the map, just enough to make a melee either break off or over extend and die. I see most your problems now, and most situate around not having battlefield awarness nor understanding on when and where you should move and when you should stand and dps.

    ps. go watch zaros' pvp videos, or bleeds or medusa's you might learn a thing or two about being a range class and what it offers. They frequently get into situations that a melee would have died in but they get out alive.
    Last edited by jerwel; 04-19-2012 at 03:06 PM.

  3. #33
    Champion Cime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerwel View Post
    LOL. So your a range player that fails at positioning and kiting is what your trying to tell me? Ignore range it means nothing, its but the best defense in ANY game. Also ignore the fact that I have specs that hit just as hard, but acutally have defensive abilities/ccs/controls. Seriously if you think its so easy to be a melee class, by all means play one. You will soon notice just how nice having range is, I ceratainly feel it when I switch from my cleric to my warrior. And yes running away works wonders, you dont have to run accross the map, just enough to make a melee either break off or over extend and die. I see most your problems now, and most situate around not having battlefield awarness nor understanding on when and where you should move and when you should stand and dps.

    ps. go watch zaros' pvp videos, or bleeds or medusa's you might learn a thing or two about being a range class and what it offers. They frequently get into situations that a melee would have died in but they get out alive.
    Um, not to dog any of those guys vids cuz I love the vids and respect each one of em as players....but I don't recall seeing ANY fight in which one of them was 1v1 vs a top notch warrior at max range that suddenly used thunderous leap to close the gap then immediately used a targeted gap closer.

    That's a glaring problem ranged are encountering more and more lately. The "effective" range of good (or well played) warriors is 40m. Two targets coming together outside of 50m. Soon as warrior's leap can span half the distance b/t me and him he leaps. I haven't even started casting. He's now in range of a gap closer. EVERY warrior has leap, the good ones use it. The bad ones whine about how hard it is to stay in melee range. The aspect of kiting a melee involves being ABLE to kite melee. Can mages, or ranged for that matter, effectively kite this type of situation?

    Want to know why MM are superb at kiting? It's not cuz they actually kite their opponent, it's cuz of their OWN speed buff. That's a very loose interpretation of kiting. Kind of like mages relying on Ride the Wind's 50% speed buff to "kite."

    Bottom line, the good melee dps won't give you much, if any, time outside of melee range. The bad ones will give you time to perform actions at range.
    Last edited by Cime; 04-19-2012 at 04:06 PM.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferago View Post
    If a warrior is wearing all PvP gear... they don't have 40% crit...

    I can't get anywhere when I'm squirreled, even with riftwalk(and planar blade gets eradicated within 10 seconds typically), then I get blasted if I try to move after storm shackle gets planted and my cleanse doesn't work. Rogues still run faster and snare constantly, and my mage takes less damage than my warrior while maintaining the ability to heal and DPS.

    This "machine gun" effect is from all the warriors who were stacking strength and AP because the tooltip said that was the important stat. Well... now that strength and AP do something, they hit harder.

    Rogues are hitting harder than before, too. Hey, mages still have the most utility and biggest crits! Clerics still heal through damage while doing great damage.

    It's a poor argument to compare the ease of range to melee. I don't need to comment on how you seem to think a ground based leap equates to melee attacks being easier to land than ranged attacks... that line speaks for itself.
    I have ~28% crit in full pvp gear. Minus 5% for pa, plus 5% crit for rift strike. So 28% full pvp gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cime View Post
    Um, not to dog any of those guys vids cuz I love the vids and respect each one of em as players....but I don't recall seeing ANY fight in which one of them was 1v1 vs a top notch warrior at max range that suddenly used thunderous leap to close the gap then immediately used a targeted gap closer.

    That's a glaring problem ranged are encountering more and more lately. The "effective" range of good (or well played) warriors is 40m. Two targets coming together outside of 50m. Soon as warrior's leap can span half the distance b/t me and him he leaps. I haven't even started casting. He's now in range of a gap closer. EVERY warrior has leap, the good ones use it. The bad ones whine about how hard it is to stay in melee range. The aspect of kiting a melee involves being ABLE to kite melee. Can mages, or ranged for that matter, effectively kite this type of situation?

    Want to know why MM are superb at kiting? It's not cuz they actually kite their opponent, it's cuz of their OWN speed buff. That's a very loose interpretation of kiting. Kind of like mages relying on Ride the Wind's 50% speed buff to "kite."

    Bottom line, the good melee dps won't give you much, if any, time outside of melee range. The bad ones will give you time to perform actions at range.
    1v1 is a terrible arguement as balance is taken in the group context. If you want to go 1v1 you should never loose to a warrior as a chlorodom, and rarely loose as a pyrodom.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Surprised nobody says anything about Sabs yet.
    Cause they aren't OP....?
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  6. #36
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    Yes everyone can bunny hop, but not everyone can instant banish before hand.
    Banish is a terrible ability.
    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    Fireballs cast time, (ie standing still) oh I'm squirreled doesn't matter.
    It does indeed matter since at most, its 4 fireballs he gets off with 1 second in between.
    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    I know it's based on procs, but it seems other mages know how to better stack those in their favor.
    This is just silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    You can get two shields from pyro and archon.
    They don't stack and consuming flames requires points in archon to obtain.
    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    I like being kitted by SC hybrids too, especially since my cleanse was fixed and broken at the same time.
    THat has more to do with their 50% speed run buff and not anything regarding CC
    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    You have the best CCs in the game.
    It is obvious you do not play a mage my friend.
    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    Try it out. But go ahead and talk about your lack of armor (which isn't that much worse than full plate thanks to 1.7)
    Agreed.

  7. #37
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerwel View Post
    LOL. So your a range player that fails at positioning and kiting is what your trying to tell me? Ignore range it means nothing, its but the best defense in ANY game. Also ignore the fact that I have specs that hit just as hard, but acutally have defensive abilities/ccs/controls. Seriously if you think its so easy to be a melee class, by all means play one. You will soon notice just how nice having range is, I ceratainly feel it when I switch from my cleric to my warrior. And yes running away works wonders, you dont have to run accross the map, just enough to make a melee either break off or over extend and die. I see most your problems now, and most situate around not having battlefield awarness nor understanding on when and where you should move and when you should stand and dps.

    ps. go watch zaros' pvp videos, or bleeds or medusa's you might learn a thing or two about being a range class and what it offers. They frequently get into situations that a melee would have died in but they get out alive.
    Let us get things straight.
    It isn't a melee class issue.
    It is a WARRIOR class issue.

    Rogue's dont have any issues with anyone kiting them.
    Ever.

  8. #38
    Plane Touched
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    pug arguements do not bring balance only excuses for bad players 90 percent of the time.
    heals really werent that bad before and if you think they were its because a.your doign it wrong or b.your team is bad. 3 dps can kill a cleric easy, 1 mm can shut down a cleric from healing his team, 1 warrior can heal debuff a whole team.
    gg

    LOL WARRIOR DPS
    LOL CLERIC HEALS

  9. #39
    Plane Walker fripples's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    Machine gun. You kids have to accept the severe limitations warriors have in regards to being stuck in melee and all types of CC equate to a 100% dps loss.
    First off, the machine gun was a metaphor for Trion giving warriors more dps. Secondly, calling people "kids" is a weak insult bc you don't know their age. Further, saying people are kids (which you have done in most of our posts) doesn't make you more of an adult. GG Majorin... troll harder please.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    Let us get things straight.
    It isn't a melee class issue.
    It is a WARRIOR class issue.

    Rogue's dont have any issues with anyone kiting them.
    Ever.
    Kiting is haaaard
    ~Quiescent

  11. #41
    General of Telara Hawkmoon0028's Avatar
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    must... resist.. must... oh, the hell with it.

    NEWSFLASH: PvP was a complete afterthought in this game. Stop praying for balance. Ever.

    And get off my lawn.

    Hawkemoon- Cleric- Greybriar
    Waiting for: Star Citizen

  12. #42
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkmoon0028 View Post
    must... resist.. must... oh, the hell with it.

    NEWSFLASH: PvP was a complete afterthought in this game. Stop praying for balance. Ever.

    And get off my lawn.
    We're just killing time while waiting for GW2.
    Forum PvP is the new PvP

    Oh, and PVP & Warfronts is my lawn.
    Last edited by Zaros; 04-19-2012 at 09:06 PM.
    ~Quiescent

  13. #43
    Plane Walker fripples's Avatar
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    Which class wouldn't want a nice dps buff in every patch? The point is.. was the dps buff absolutely needed? In 1.7 PvP and PvE, warriors were already topping the charts. It's like if Trion buffed Fan Out by allowing Electric Munitions to scale with the rogue's attack power or getting rid of the "travel delay" for Eradicate. That'd be a completely unnecessary buff to an already OP spec. Oh wait.... Trion did that?
    Last edited by fripples; 04-19-2012 at 09:13 PM.

  14. #44
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fripples View Post
    Which class wouldn't want a nice dps buff in every patch? The point is.. was the dps buff absolutely needed? In 1.7 PvP and PvE, warriors were already topping the charts. It's like if Trion buffed Fan Out by allowing Electric Munitions to scale with the rogue's attack power or getting rid of the "travel delay" for Eradicate. That'd be a completely unnecessary buff to an already OP spec. Oh wait.... Trion did that?
    EM should only proc 20-25% of the time on Fan Out
    The AP scaling with EM made it go up by literally 15 damage on a PvP geared rogue
    Eradicate already didn't have a delay if you weren't a lame-O using a bow


    The real buff to MM was the energy reductions.
    ~Quiescent

  15. #45
    Ascendant Tufelhunden's Avatar
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    It's so cute to see mages whine when some other classes do almost their DPS, but without the utility.

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