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Thread: Possible to implement an auto-downrank for P40s in P1-25/25-35 games?

  1. #1
    Rift Master
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    Default Possible to implement an auto-downrank for P40s in P1-25/25-35 games?

    I just finished a whitefall match on my P40 mage. It was a P25-35 game. My team was down 1-0 and barely holding their own on dmg/kbs when I arrived. Five minutes later we were up 2-1 and all but farming the opposing team. I finished with ~3x the dmg and kbs of the next highest player (and 0 deaths).

    In a nutshell: I ruined an otherwise competitive game. I had no business being there.

    But I also understand why the game needs to put me there. There aren't enough lower ranked players queuing to fill out two acceptable teams. I'm sure those players would agree, if reluctantly, that they'd rather a few P40s sneak in than have no games at all.

    I'd really like to see a system that downranks my gear under those circumstances. Just a simple debuff that caps all of my stats at an acceptable percentage in order to maintain the competitive balance of lower ranked matches. Leave me a small advantage (maybe 5-10% higher stats than are ordinarily possible at that rank plus the valor from my source engine). I should do just fine by virtue of my experience and slightly more sp/valor. Just without, you know, ruining the game completely for everyone else.

    It would also be nice to queue alongside lower ranked friends/alts without forcing them into P40 games. Maybe an ability to manually set my rank would be even better, but I don't want to kill the P40 games either. Hm.

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    I like you

  3. #3
    Ascendant Trisian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by handerhank View Post
    I just finished a whitefall match on my P40 mage. It was a P25-35 game. My team was down 1-0 and barely holding their own on dmg/kbs when I arrived. Five minutes later we were up 2-1 and all but farming the opposing team. I finished with ~3x the dmg and kbs of the next highest player (and 0 deaths).

    In a nutshell: I ruined an otherwise competitive game. I had no business being there.

    But I also understand why the game needs to put me there. There aren't enough lower ranked players queuing to fill out two acceptable teams. I'm sure those players would agree, if reluctantly, that they'd rather a few P40s sneak in than have no games at all.

    I'd really like to see a system that downranks my gear under those circumstances. Just a simple debuff that caps all of my stats at an acceptable percentage in order to maintain the competitive balance of lower ranked matches. Leave me a small advantage (maybe 5-10% higher stats than are ordinarily possible at that rank plus the valor from my source engine). I should do just fine by virtue of my experience and slightly more sp/valor. Just without, you know, ruining the game completely for everyone else.

    It would also be nice to queue alongside lower ranked friends/alts without forcing them into P40 games. Maybe an ability to manually set my rank would be even better, but I don't want to kill the P40 games either. Hm.
    I love your attitude and train of thought, but the flaw I see in this is that tho you might be a sterling example of good sportsmanship, other jerks will be happy to replace your role and wreck games anyways. The flaws are inherent to the mechanics of the game, and until they get that under control there is nothing the community can do to save pvp in Rift. By participating we drive people away, by not participating we drive people away. Keep your fingers crossed they find a solution that both hardcore and casuals can accept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trisian View Post
    I love your attitude and train of thought, but the flaw I see in this is that tho you might be a sterling example of good sportsmanship, other jerks will be happy to replace your role and wreck games anyways. The flaws are inherent to the mechanics of the game, and until they get that under control there is nothing the community can do to save pvp in Rift. By participating we drive people away, by not participating we drive people away. Keep your fingers crossed they find a solution that both hardcore and casuals can accept.
    That was depressing, for a moment there I thought this was going somewhere.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bursurkin View Post
    That was depressing, for a moment there I thought this was going somewhere.
    If it was going somewhere, it would have gone there a year ago when many similar great ideas were tossed around these forums in an attempt to save pvp. Instead, well.... at least they are starting to listen now. I suppose every company is allowed some growing pains, but this downward spiral that Rift's pvp is currently in is such a steep nosedive that it's going to take monumental failures from their competition plus a miracle patch to turn things around imo.

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    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    If I was lower rank, I wouldn't want to fight candy-land nerfed enemies becuase I'm a n00b. What kind of incentive is that to level up, keep ranking to 40 so I can get knocked down to 28 half the time.

    I have two stances

    1. You earn gear - I get annoyed when I realize I am still wearing my silly +hit bow on my MM from swapping off my sin spec. (i don't use that thing for my mm spec). I get annoyed when I leave my valor sigle in instead of my high DPS one. I can't think of a way to annoy me more than doing that effect by proxy fa days.

    2. I don't like to being people who earned a high level of gameplay down with me either. If they release new ranks and I'm swamped in school and I don't even log in for a week or 2 and theres all these hot new high rankers. I want to earn it myself and be a full time high ranker. I don't want to fight people getting lowered down to my level and punished because they put in the most work and are being punished, basically, for me being a slacker. If you want to be a good sport and downrank yourself, take your gear off or something.

    Guess that covers it all, I don't want to be lowered down to others levels and I wouldn't want others lowered down to my level. I earned it, I should use it. They earned it, they should use it. Games shouldn't take away what people earn generally unless it's a really good reason. Even if that taking away is temporary. People don't progress in MMO's to have a computer deprogress them when it counts.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by handerhank View Post
    I just finished a whitefall match on my P40 mage. It was a P25-35 game. My team was down 1-0 and barely holding their own on dmg/kbs when I arrived. Five minutes later we were up 2-1 and all but farming the opposing team. I finished with ~3x the dmg and kbs of the next highest player (and 0 deaths).

    In a nutshell: I ruined an otherwise competitive game. I had no business being there.

    But I also understand why the game needs to put me there. There aren't enough lower ranked players queuing to fill out two acceptable teams. I'm sure those players would agree, if reluctantly, that they'd rather a few P40s sneak in than have no games at all.

    I'd really like to see a system that downranks my gear under those circumstances. Just a simple debuff that caps all of my stats at an acceptable percentage in order to maintain the competitive balance of lower ranked matches. Leave me a small advantage (maybe 5-10% higher stats than are ordinarily possible at that rank plus the valor from my source engine). I should do just fine by virtue of my experience and slightly more sp/valor. Just without, you know, ruining the game completely for everyone else.

    It would also be nice to queue alongside lower ranked friends/alts without forcing them into P40 games. Maybe an ability to manually set my rank would be even better, but I don't want to kill the P40 games either. Hm.
    Im sure you were the p40 in that match and not the p25 who was getting rolled over by the rank 40.

    Why would anyone spend the time gearing and ranking only to WANT to be downgraded. Makes no sense.

    Id be pretty unhappy if I spent all that time gearing only to be forced to play a lower rank because other people are too lazy to grind for gear.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Robes's Avatar
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    Here's an idea, lets just remove all but 1 of the gear sets for pvp, and remove the favor cost from them, that way everybody will be completely even. Oh and remove the bonuses from PA/runes when in a match, wouldn't want somebody who doesn't have those to be at a disadvantage.
    Teddro - Warrior - Seastone

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    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robes View Post
    Here's an idea, lets just remove all but 1 of the gear sets for pvp, and remove the favor cost from them, that way everybody will be completely even. Oh and remove the bonuses from PA/runes when in a match, wouldn't want somebody who doesn't have those to be at a disadvantage.
    As long as they compensate by giving me 9 guns and 100/100 hp/armor.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  10. #10
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    How about just give us a P40 only WF.
    If a P40 wants rewards they queue up for the matched WF.
    Open Brackets offer no rewards after P40.

    Bad P40s will play in open brackets, but they are bad, any decent maxed PvPer will be all for fighting his/her peers.

    Queue times got you down? Well thats because the 1,000+ P40's we used to have quit for lack of competition =\
    Last edited by Am0n; 04-13-2012 at 10:22 AM.
    "You lost me at Balance"

  11. #11
    Ascendant Trisian's Avatar
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    Alright, here's a real solution. We've got runes that augment gear. Runes come with gear level cap requirements so people don't abuse them.

    If a rune can say " requires a lvl 38 item or higher " then what is stopping a dev from making a rune that says "requires a lvl 35 item or lesser" ?

    Alright, with that established why don't we have sets of rune recipes made just for lowbies with obnoxious amounts of valor?

    Give the players the power to make their own decisions about how they want to pvp. If you don't like being 3 shotted, wear crap gear and valor yourself into space. Good players will ignore you and you'll never get KBs, but you'll survive long enough to learn how to pvp. Once players get a taste for it, they'll want to do better and start switching their gear around for more damage, but less survivalbility.

    The main problem is Trion has absolute control. They leave nothing for the player to be creative with in pvp. When players can create their own fun, that's what truly makes MMORPGS memorable.

    Give us the tools, and we'll make our own fun. Give us the content, and we'll support your game.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Am0n View Post
    How about just give us a P40 only WF.
    If a P40 wants rewards they queue up for the matched WF.
    Open Brackets offer no rewards after P40.
    Brushing along side of the same logistics why they don't allow an opt-out for mercs. They are trying to not separate que pools for the player base and keep it a 1 pool system as much as they can. Opening a r40 only WF would just in proxy create a secondary pool for matching purposes, which would just come full circle of the problem they tried to fix in a different flavor and style.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  13. #13
    Ascendant Am0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Brushing along side of the same logistics why they don't allow an opt-out for mercs. They are trying to not separate que pools for the player base and keep it a 1 pool system as much as they can. Opening a r40 only WF would just in proxy create a secondary pool for matching purposes, which would just come full circle of the problem they tried to fix in a different flavor and style.
    Faction imbalance, and the amount of Max rank players in the game I think are two different beasts.
    "You lost me at Balance"

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Am0n View Post
    How about just give us a P40 only WF.
    If a P40 wants rewards they queue up for the matched WF.
    Open Brackets offer no rewards after P40.

    Bad P40s will play in open brackets, but they are bad, any decent maxed PvPer will be all for fighting his/her peers.

    Queue times got you down? Well thats because the 1,000+ P40's we used to have quit for lack of competition =\
    This^
    I would love to see something like this implemented. Give me my adrenaline back please.

  15. #15
    Plane Touched SwordSaint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Am0n View Post
    How about just give us a P40 only WF.
    If a P40 wants rewards they queue up for the matched WF.
    Open Brackets offer no rewards after P40.

    Bad P40s will play in open brackets, but they are bad, any decent maxed PvPer will be all for fighting his/her peers.

    Queue times got you down? Well thats because the 1,000+ P40's we used to have quit for lack of competition =\
    Agreed 100%
    Me killing you in your WFs
    Whats Left of Rift PVP Community: Average Players with Uber gear and bots
    Visualize lvl 50 Rogue
    ZinCarla lvl 50 Warrior
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