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Thread: Voting Booth / 1.8 Is A Disgrace

  1. #1
    Soulwalker MisterSunshine's Avatar
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    Default Voting Booth / 1.8 Is A Disgrace

    The purpose of this post is bring to attention the destructive effects of Patch 1.8, and to suggest an improvement that would prevent these sorts of disasters from being contemplated and produced in the future, the Voting Booth.

    The 1.8 nerfs are quite the disgrace.
    I've been playing this game since launch. I have these three R40 chars:
    Hegemony: R40 Healing Cleric
    Antimony (Sanctimony): R40 DPS/Bard Rogue
    Disharmony (Ceremony): R40 DPS/Shield Warrior

    I'm a co-leader of CoLD (originally on Dayblind, and then on Deepstrike). This post does not represent the opinions of my guild and is solely a reflection of my personal thoughts.

    I originally started the game primarily as a DPS rogue, but I saw how necessary and helpful it was to assist my team by keeping them alive. There is no fun is dying, rezzing, and having to run back. By helping to keep my team alive, I indeed do derive pleasure vicariously. I also enjoy playing my Bard now quite a bit in PvP for the same reason. Attacking, running, or doing what needs to be done for support, this is why people play the game and where a large part of the thrill and pleasure in playing is derived from.

    I was astonished at the healing changes they are making to 1.8.

    The most insulting aspect to this is that thirteen months after the game is released, they are nerfing a very valuable PvP spec for healers by forty percent. I'd like to see the votes in favor of and against this. For all the work that Trion has put into the game, where is a simple voting booth that everybody, all paying players, can express their opinion about balance? The voting booth would introduce changes that are being planned for the next build, and would allow sliders indicating strongly negative to strongly positive responses for each of the suggestions. Players would also be permitted to leave a small comment next to each of the changes. If Trion had gone forward with this from the beginning, they would saved themselves the subs of all the silent, less-than-vocal folks.

    As having played a high rank rogue and warrior,I know that killing healers can be tough. But it is not that difficult when there are just several damagers attacking the cleric. This just requires some teamwork. As it is, many warfronts are simply multi-second battles between two damagers.

    I rarely have posted on the forums or have spoken in game about patches, except in attempts to:
    1) Stop the original pyro nerf (which I thought was way overdone) - and true enough, they reversed some of the changes.
    2) Stop the changes to valor and critical hit damage in warfronts - which true enough, was shelved.
    3) Stop the original nerfing the warrior - which true enough, they have had to go back and increase the dps again.

    After an investment of a year in this game, is it right for Trion to be making these kinds of large scale changes? As a guild, we were very warrior heavy in the old days, and a lot of people left because of the
    nerfs. This makes complete sense - if you spend a year and intensively learn how to play chess, or any other game that requires some element of skill and strategy, how would you feel if the entire game were changed every month? Would you feel that your investment and pleasure gaming the game would have been adversely affected?

    Instead of these nonsensical damage reduction and healing reduction modifiers that are so prodigiously implemented, how about the PvP development team focus on the things that everybody has been requesting (nay, begging?) for since the launch of the game:
    1) More warfronts, at least one every two patches I would hope. Except for Library, there have been absolutely no new maps for 13 months.
    2) Working on making all specs viable in PvP. When was the last time you saw an Archon, Druid, or Warlord in PvP? Part of the reason that many try out Rift is because of the advertisement of "8 souls per class, and near infinite possibilities for builds." Well, this is not entirely accurate, and rather than continually detract from player's investment in time in perfecting builds and playstyle, the development team should address the much more difficult goal of achieving this.

    Overall, I'm extraordinarily displeased with the reason, timing, and way these changes are to be implemented. My prediction is that it will be very, very difficult to survive as a healer in warfronts - and I'm saying this as a member of the Rift community, not just because one of my characters is a healer. My accuracy for predictions has been fairly good. Here is the next problem that I see:
    A major survival issue for weaker, or lesser geared (or lesser skilled) players, simply because they will not be able to stay alive in warfronts without some healing support. You can bet on this. I cannot tell you how many times I've had to rush to aid low-specced players on my team from being annhilated (liquidated?) in femtoseconds. A a rough calculation, I would estimate at least twice each warfront. This issue will become even more pernicious with the introduction of ID gear and higher damage weapons.

    I hope that Trion will seriously reconsider the way that these changes are decided and implemented in the future (for sake of the PvP community), and I wanted to say to players that I've met and played with that it's been a good experience (sans nerfs) overrall, and I hope to see each of you online here in the open world or in warfronts.

    I wanted to put this out on the table, and hope that the PvP community supports tabling these changes. It's absolutely not a cleric complaint, but rather because this game is devolving from a fantasy MMORPG into an FPS on warfronts, and very rapidly.

    Take care,
    Hegemony - R40 Healing Cleric, Co-Leader <CoLD>
    Antimony/Sanctimony - R40 Bard/DPS Rogue, Co-Leader <CoLD>
    Disharmony/Ceremony - R40 DPS/Shield Warrior, Co-Leader <CoLD>

  2. #2
    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
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    I can't wait for 1.8 myself. New warfronts will come when they're ready. All souls viable in pvp is nice on paper, damn near impossible in reality.

    Healers have stupid survivability right now. My rank 7 Cleric with 51 Puri can survive longer than my rank 39 Rogue even with points in RS.
    Even free cost too much now

  3. #3
    RIFT Guide Writer
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    Your opinion of the "necessary" nerfs for Cleric healing in PvP is rejected.

    They have been needed for some time, now a healer has to use LoS, dispel themselves and somewhat have a brain in PvP rather than macro break free to every cast time heal.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Ajax1114's Avatar
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    The problem with voting is that it reflects popular opinion, often from a vocal minority and sometimes backed by mob mentality. The day that balance changes are made based on popular opinion and not on sound, logically discussed game design is the day I quit. I don't care what game it is or who I'm playing it with.

    People study game design so that they can intelligently design games, not so that they can be told how to design their games by players.

    Constructive, logically backed feedback is one thing. Polls are something else entirely.
    Last edited by Ajax1114; 04-07-2012 at 08:05 PM.

  5. #5
    General of Telara Eclipze's Avatar
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    Polls are for promoting a biased political agenda on cable (fake)news shows, not for class balance in an MMO.
    Eclipze @ Retired Raider
    Mage Extraodinaire
    PVE <The Grubs> | <Thantos Gallanos Xantos>
    PVP <Terrible Idea>

  6. #6
    Plane Touched Kakaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterSunshine View Post
    I was astonished at the healing changes they are making to 1.8.

    <CoLD>
    Am i the only one celebrating warden getting nerfed ?oO





  7. #7
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    I'm not going to comment on class balance because that's a can of worms I'd rather not climb into.

    As for making all souls viable for PvP, Credo has already answered that one with "All souls viable in pvp is nice on paper, damn near impossible in reality."

    That leaves "Except for Library, there have been absolutely no new maps for 13 months."

    Up until just recently, queue times for some people have been atrocious, mostly due to faction imbalance. This is why they haven't focused on adding new WF's because, as everyone should know, if you add more queues / Wf's, you add time to each queue.

    This is why they decided to give us variant WF's, not new ones. Keeping the same number of WF's active kept the queues pretty much at the status quo.

    In short, if you're having problems with long queues, the last thing you want to do is split those queues into more queues.

    Now that they've sorted out the queue problems with the merc system, I expect they'll start looking at giving us more WF's now, or at least that's what I hope.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Vihar's Avatar
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    I believe warden is the only cleric soul that needed a "nerf", but I don't care for the way they nerfed it.

    Warden was only a problem when multiple wardens stacked HoT's.

    A lone warden is not OP at all.

    They needed to nerf the ability to cross heal WITHOUT nerfing the lone warden.

    Having said that, buffing rogues in 1.8 is a joke.

    Thankfully, don't have to put up with these overbuffs and overnerfs much longer.
    Otherwise known as Morganlefae

  9. #9
    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vihar View Post
    I believe warden is the only cleric soul that needed a "nerf", but I don't care for the way they nerfed it.

    Warden was only a problem when multiple wardens stacked HoT's.

    A lone warden is not OP at all.

    They needed to nerf the ability to cross heal WITHOUT nerfing the lone warden.

    Having said that, buffing rogues in 1.8 is a joke.

    Thankfully, don't have to put up with these overbuffs and overnerfs much longer.
    How dare they work on some souls in a class that needs help in PvP.
    Even free cost too much now

  10. #10
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    Yes clerics are getting nerfed but everyone is forgetting chloros are getting buffed. Mages are going to have to step up again and start healing in wfs more often, there will need to be more cooperation in combination of heals. I know I said the C word. I myself have already got my pvp heal spec set up and when backed up with a cleric can pull of some pretty amazing healing pre 1.8 so I'm psyched to see what I can do after. So I look forward to the changes, because honestly I am so dang tired of joining wf's with dps clerics that won't heal and I as mage could heal but it was almost a joke when 1.7 came along and valor was upped killing our healing output. Every cleric is like this nerf is going to kill their healing, as far as i know its a nerf to stacking multiple warden hots, so 1 clerics individual healing won't be hinderd at all, and zomg you may have to branch out into more then 1 build.
    Last edited by redrox; 04-09-2012 at 08:07 AM.

  11. #11
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    I have a friend who has been playing the game since launch in the warden heal spec. She thinks the changes are unfair and a year to late. I agree with her to an extent but wardens were a problem. I believe the first change offered by the devs was better then a blanket healing nerf. This being said healer survivability was without a doubt horribly OP and needed to be addressed.

    There are many issues with pvp and none of them are easy fixes. The most damaging element to pvp in the game is how high ranged dps currently is in the game. Would be hard to nerf it without massive complaints but right now mages focusing firing have way to much burst dps. It is game breaking. Warriors need more survivability to counteract the ranged dps.... It goes on and on.

    I disagree with your attitude towards the changes. Give them a chance. Sure a bunch of clerics will role dps but my healers are staying healers and we will roll you kids. Do what you want but without heals you are toast. Prove your point while I kill you.

    Choi.
    Last edited by Majorin; 04-09-2012 at 08:21 AM.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redrox View Post
    Yes clerics are getting nerfed but everyone is forgetting chloros are getting buffed. Mages are going to have to step up again and start healing in wfs more often, there will need to be more cooperation in combination of heals.
    The buff towards chloromancer healing is not enough to address the problem that lies within the chloromancer sol itself.
    It cannot focus heal.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    The buff towards chloromancer healing is not enough to address the problem that lies within the chloromancer sol itself.
    It cannot focus heal.
    You think that there is only supposed to be 1 healer in a warfront? Did you read the rest of my post that entire part i said of Cooperation of heals, meaning Clerics and Mages. More then One spec of healer on the playing field. I swear get out of the warfronts you have an obvious tunnel vision problem.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redrox View Post
    You think that there is only supposed to be 1 healer in a warfront? Did you read the rest of my post that entire part i said of Cooperation of heals, meaning Clerics and Mages. More then One spec of healer on the playing field. I swear get out of the warfronts you have an obvious tunnel vision problem.
    You think that chloromancers are at all equal to clerics?
    Can I have some of what you are smoking?

    Do you honestly believe that it should take multiple healers to keep a single individual up when they're being bursted down?

    Do you even play a chloro?
    Do you even PvP at all?
    Do you even play this game at all?

    Chloromancer's lack burst healing.
    That is why they will never be considered as effective as a cleric in warfronts.
    You don't counter burst damage with steady healing.

    Oh and here is some numbers for you.
    With around 2100 SP, my nature's touch crits for 1800.
    This turns into less than 900 with valor.
    This becomes only 450 if a healing debuff hits my taget (which it will).
    You think 450 heals from a spell that has a 2.5 second cast time is going to keep anyone up?
    L O L

    If you don't know the class well enough, don't discuss it.
    Last edited by Aguni; 04-09-2012 at 08:41 AM.

  15. #15
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    You think that chloromancers are at all equal to clerics?
    Can I have some of what you are smoking?

    Do you honestly believe that it should take multiple healers to keep a single individual up when they're being bursted down?

    Do you even play a chloro?
    Do you even PvP at all?
    Do you even play this game at all?

    Chloromancer's lack burst healing.
    That is why they will never be considered as effective as a cleric in warfronts.
    You don't counter burst damage with steady healing.

    Oh and here is some numbers for you.
    With around 2100 SP, my nature's touch crits for 1800.
    This turns into less than 900 with valor.
    This becomes only 450 if a healing debuff hits my taget (which it will).
    You think 450 heals from a spell that has a 2.5 second cast time is going to keep anyone up?
    L O L

    If you don't know the class well enough, don't discuss it.
    Although i agree with your point about chloromancer, u should never be casting NT in PVP, ever. Its a must to go lock for opportunity in 51 chloro and any procs to opportunity should be devoted to NH.

    But yeah again i do agree chloro needs alot more help to be a "good" healer in WFs, The Best played chloro could only do 1/4 of what the best played cleric could do.
    Ill be singing this song for my chloro til i get buffedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JwHA495iHU
    I Xbox Controller Turn, Keyboard turners cant see me son. I Hadouken my rotations.

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