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Thread: +hit and +focus in pvp - how does it work?

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default +hit and +focus in pvp - how does it work?

    I was under the impression that +hit and +focus was just a pve stat, but after reading the GM thread I assuming otherwise. What's the story? Do I need focus?

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    Prophet of Telara Testercules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enchilada View Post
    I was under the impression that +hit and +focus was just a pve stat, but after reading the GM thread I assuming otherwise. What's the story? Do I need focus?
    Bypasses "miss" and "dodge" if you're at least 100 hit, and I dunno about focus. Having more than 100 is better. Having none makes you bad.
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    For rogues and warriors, + Hit is a very key stat for pvp. This is to allow them to bypass the passive Dodge and Parry defences that folks have. To hit Justicar clerics, Sword and Board warriors and Guard Phase rogues, these classes need even more hit. It gets to the point when facing some builds that you need 250 - 300 hit to hurt them. The designers don't want to do away with hit working in pvp, since it would do away with a bunch of class skills... but putting it on pvp weapons would make them desirable (to a degree) for pve folks.

    Focus is less important. 40 focus lets you get through most magical defences folks run, but without any you'll see folks "resisting" your spells.

    + hit is more important for rogues than warriors, since warriors get some passive +hit boosts in their trees, but it is needed regardless.

    75hit = minimum.
    100 = better... but meh.
    150 = Great all around number to be running in warfronts, but you'll still get eaten by any tanky warrior or cleric.
    200 = You bypass all rogue cooldowns like side steps, and some warrior ones... but still have problems with tanky builds.
    250 = You hit just about everyone, every time.
    300 = *Ping* You'll hit everyone, every time.

    And, how do you get all this hit on your pvp gear? You don't. You raid hammerknell, and mix/match your pvp and HK gear as needed to kill whomever you're fighting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laban of C O View Post
    75hit = minimum.
    100 = better... but meh.
    150 = Great all around number to be running in warfronts, but you'll still get eaten by any tanky warrior or cleric.
    200 = You bypass all rogue cooldowns like side steps, and some warrior ones... but still have problems with tanky builds.
    250 = You hit just about everyone, every time.
    300 = *Ping* You'll hit everyone, every time.
    Anything above about 25 focus is fine, there are very few people running with 50+ of a resist. If you can throw a rune on a staff and your wand and you'll be at 37 I believe, that's enough.

    For hit you essentially have to have HK weapons to be useful in PVP or you will miss way too much.

  5. #5
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    what these guys said above.

    Which is one reason I will be enjoying this here in a month or two. Adios Trion. You had your chance. We told you for months to implement what is in that video. You refused. Now GL keeping any PvP subs.

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    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laban of C O View Post
    It gets to the point when facing some builds that you need 250 - 300 hit to hurt them. The designers don't want to do away with hit working in pvp, since it would do away with a bunch of class skills... but putting it on pvp weapons would make them desirable (to a degree) for pve folks.


    And, how do you get all this hit on your pvp gear? You don't. You raid hammerknell, and mix/match your pvp and HK gear as needed to kill whomever you're fighting.

    I use 145 hit on my MM and rarely run into someone I can't hit. At that level of hit, the only calling I get massive parrys/dodges against is the certain Icar specs. But even that is going away in 1.8. A rogue is being silly imo if they are going much over 150, or rather if they feel they need more than 150. Sword/Boards take forever to die because of their shield, rarely because they are dodging/parrying me. More hit will cushion fighting certain temp buffs, but that is mostly it.

    I agree it sucks using hit but you are being extreme sayin you must be HK geared to compete on this level. I bought death bringer daggers (lost ~1.2% crit, gained AP - good deal imo.) and a deathbringer ring (side grade to top rank pvp rings) from the AH for a few hundred plat. I've gotten all my hit literally from AH listed items.

    It still sucks, but there are things the common low man can do. I still play 100% solo mostly and I manage 145 hit without downgrading my top rank pvp gear. I'll just be interested when they finally figure this one out. Could muster a bit more too if I choose. But literally feel no compell to have more hit than 145 atm.
    Last edited by Violacea; 04-05-2012 at 10:10 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    I agree it sucks using hit but you are being extreme sayin you must be HK geared to compete on this level. I bought death bringer daggers (lost ~1.2% crit, gained AP - good deal imo.) and a deathbringer ring (side grade to top rank pvp rings) from the AH for a few hundred plat. I've gotten all my hit literally from AH listed items.
    Are you saying your Deathbringer can keep up with the Molten Brand, Midnight's Edge, or the Savage Beastcarver?

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    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sariina View Post
    Are you saying your Deathbringer can keep up with the Molten Brand, Midnight's Edge, or the Savage Beastcarver?
    Actually - yeah.

    The damage rating isn't really relevant for my MM spec, which is my main overall preferred spec in WFs. Love Sab too and hoping it is more umph in 1.8. I use Assassin in world pvp usually and have a bow I use just for hit in my melee spec. So stat wise...

    Since I use the deathbringer ring instead of one on of my pvp rings, when I use 2 deathbringer daggers I get the 2/3 set of +20end and +20ap. The ring is constant and I would use it even if it was the only pve item I had for the purpose of hit. It's a side grade really, choice of end/valor vs hit. Of course use my pvp bow for mm spec and pvp daggers for sin spec.

    So if I put on the 2 daggers you have to account for their set bonus and perks of being crafted items. Mine have 46dex on each of them as crafted items. If I evenly distribute the 2 and 3 set bonus gained from them I get (x2)

    46dex
    21str
    27 end
    22 ap
    38hit

    In sum to compare the 3 you linked vs the setup I suggested (ring + augmented for dex), you get this with x2 of each.

    Savage beastcarver - 92ap, 90 crit
    Midnight's Edge - 71ap, 146 crit
    Molten Brand - 117ap, 76 crit
    Deathbringer - 111ap, 92 crit

    For melee, there are *close* to sidegrade bows to teh top rank rogue ranged items. It is close enough to get the hit, so for the sake of comparing the actual pvp daggers. (top rank)

    Pvp daggers - 74ap, 134 crit
    pvp swords - 115ap, 52 crit

    Of course then you need to get hit elsewhere for the spec. And of course current top rank relic weapons better than pvp weapons. The work around is that I equip weapons not required for specs to get the hit I need since they act as more raw stat holders.

    But this is silly, would be much easier if it was a simple choice that pvp weapons are king for pvping. Otherwise pvp weapons are just decent weapons you get from pvping. Kind of loses some shine.
    Last edited by Violacea; 04-05-2012 at 01:52 PM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

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    When I entered PvP, I was informed by many that hit and focus were not needed over valor, vengeance.

    Now I'm reading threads relating that hit/focus does affect the pvp game.

    Would someone, who actually knows , from Trion please address this.

    There are actually players who aren't equipped out the wazoo , or just starting into PvP since the changes to having r40 as max.

    What is the 'real' truth?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaszar View Post
    When I entered PvP, I was informed by many that hit and focus were not needed over valor, vengeance.

    Now I'm reading threads relating that hit/focus does affect the pvp game.

    Would someone, who actually knows , from Trion please address this.

    What is the 'real' truth?
    The 'real' truth has been posted.
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    The real truth is that it sucks having to go up against a 20 - 30% chance passive dodge/parry rate as a melee and right now the only way to overcome that is +hit. There is no magical amount of how much is good. It kind of depends on your opponent or your tolerance level. I pvp'd for a long time with 75 hit but got fed up one day. It was very do-able though and I was able to perform. 50 - 75 to maybe not totally rip your hair out. 100 - 150 if you want to wash away most the parrys/dodges outside of temp buffing.
    New round up of some high rank matches
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    Quote Originally Posted by AceinHole View Post
    what these guys said above.

    Which is one reason I will be enjoying this here in a month or two. Adios Trion. You had your chance. We told you for months to implement what is in that video. You refused. Now GL keeping any PvP subs.
    Hey, you're a Yognaut?
    Awesome.

    Oh, you need ~100 hit to PvP effectively as a Warrior or Rogue.
    Casters need 10 or 20 focus, because prejudice.
    Last edited by Zaros; 04-05-2012 at 05:22 PM.
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    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AceinHole View Post
    what these guys said above.

    Which is one reason I will be enjoying this here in a month or two. Adios Trion. You had your chance. We told you for months to implement what is in that video. You refused. Now GL keeping any PvP subs.
    Hard to be a real critic when you don't offer perfect solutions either though. And suggesting one that isn't a good one and pretending it is doesn't count, which is what most people here have generally done.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
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    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  14. #14
    Sword of Telara Chancellor Gowron's Avatar
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    If they just got rid of hit/focus in pvp wouldn't it make it easier for them to balance parry/dodge etc in pvp? It seems kind of ridiculous that those types of mitigation can range from being extremely overpowered to completely useless in PvP depending on how much of a PvE stat the enemy has.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chancellor Gowron View Post
    If they just got rid of hit/focus in pvp wouldn't it make it easier for them to balance parry/dodge etc in pvp? It seems kind of ridiculous that those types of mitigation can range from being extremely overpowered to completely useless in PvP depending on how much of a PvE stat the enemy has.
    I believe they already changed things recently with justicar which had high dodge/parry capabilities.
    The min issue is that the system is currently built to utilize focus/hit to mitigate dodge/resistance values.


    I believe the only reason it was done that way, was because they did not look far enough ahead to see the possible problems.
    As a result, you end up in this messed up situation where any solution taken will be clean.

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