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Thread: Killing blows >>> dps

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default Killing blows >>> dps

    Quick word to kick this off: I am making this argument exclusively for PvP.

    I feel like this is something that would be universally accepted once a little logic is applied. Say it's 5v5 at a fight for a node...you know that once it becomes 5v4, suddenly you have an advantage, and at 5v3 you should pretty much be guaranteed to win the fight. HOWEVER, there are quite a few people out there who seem to think that the approach is to go straight from 5v5 to 5v0, with no steps inbetween. Which is pretty much exactly what you're trying to work towards if you're using AOE in that situation. Think about how much easier it would be to create a 5v4 situation rather than creating a 5v0 situation, and then try to argue that constant, reckless AOE makes any sense at all.

    I recognize the appeal of doing lots of damage, yes. Having the biggest number on the score screen looks cool. Most players are very PvE-minded, i.e. the metric they use for their success is not how many mobs or bosses they killed; it's the DPS they do. As it should be, really...with less stuff threatening your life, you can focus on your DPS rotation. Thus DPS makes sense to measure in PvE. But PvP is a COMPLETELY different ball game. A lot of the time, it makes little sense to try and max out your DPS rotation since it means you're not paying attention to the damage you are taking or to the objective that your opponent is working towards. In PvE, your opponent is merely trying to kill you. In PvP, he's actually trying to capture a node, or pick up a skull, or capture a flag, so you need to actually watch what he's frickin' doing. What this means is that a kill is far, far more valuable since not only did you achieve a kill, you also stopped him from achieving an objective that would be detrimental to your team. Oh, also, unlike PvE, your opponent has more than 2 abilities. It's more like 30. And it's controlled by a human, not a computer. Therefore, killing it is far more impressive.

    This is why killing blows are a way more important PvP metric than damage. Save your fan out for when a large group is trying to cap something, and spare us your displays of "awesomeness" where you show that you did the most damage and had 1 killing blow.
    Last edited by Malachi26; 03-22-2012 at 09:08 AM.

  2. #2
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    I think I do around ~450 dps in pvp.
    Last edited by spaceboots; 03-22-2012 at 09:14 AM.

  3. #3
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    I keep telling myself to save footage of all the MM I see using Spam Out on single targets that are not warriors (or even clerics, for that matter) and make a "dubby tee eff" compilation, but then the thought of leaving that kind of footage on my HD makes me feel dirty.

  4. #4
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    Neither of them are a good metric.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Unless you are above you team in those categories by a land-slide, it probably didn't mean tooooo much. I started using a bow lately and my KB's dropped a bit It's meh, if you are not alone anyone can drop the last hit on someone. For example on my lowbie mage I found KB's extremely easy to get because I had that insta under 30% hp nuke on my pyro + insta cinder bursts and such. Was a KB monster cause I could hit them hard and fast all the time when they were low. Its subjective.

    KB's/Dmg certainly don't mean the same thing in here as they do Arena games. Or rather, add up to the same worth all the time.
    Last edited by Violacea; 03-22-2012 at 09:35 AM.
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  6. #6
    Ascendant Jeffreys's Avatar
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    I disagree about killing blows. I broke out the saboteur soul for variety and topped the chart. Because sab is great? Because sab is anything other than sub-par? Nope. Because of good timing on detonate. Basically, I stole kbs all match. Fan out spam does the same thing. Pyro's inferno. Vex. Barb shot. etc

    Kills should be awarded to the person who does say 60% of the damage. Otherwise, all involved get credit for an 'assist.'
    Last edited by Jeffreys; 03-22-2012 at 09:40 AM.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffreys View Post
    I disagree about killing blows. I broke out the saboteur soul for variety and topped the chart. Because sab is great? Because sab is anything other than sub-par? Nope. Because of good timing on detonate. Basically, I stole kbs all match. Fan out spam does the same thing. Pyro's inferno. Vex. Barb shot. etc

    Kills should be awarded to the person who does say 60% of the damage. Otherwise, all involved get credit for an 'assist.'
    Kb's should be awarded to the person who gets the KB. No need to make ridiculous weird if statements to calculate who gets a 'imaginary' KB because people can't grasp the weight of a simple stat. You can knock 80% hp off someone and they get away and heal up. Or you could knock 80% hp off and before they get too far and someone pegs them a few times cause they were still in range of them and killed them while they may have gotten away from you totally had the person not been there. No need to re-invent the wheel. A killing blow is a killing blow is a killing blow.
    Last edited by Violacea; 03-22-2012 at 10:02 AM.
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  8. #8
    Rift Disciple
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    Two things wrong here. The OP, and the location. The people who really need a lesson in pvp are the people that don't even know this game has forums with information.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    You have to look at both of them if you want to tell who's actually good.

    I could go 51 Sab and get a billion KBs and like 50k damage done, but that would just be kill stealing.

    It also helps to look at damage taken/healing done/healing taken.

    Damage taken isn't necessarily a bad stat.
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  10. #10
    Telaran
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    I tend to agree with the OP, but it's just not that simple. However if person a) has 200k damage and 7 KBs and and person b) has 175k damage and 15 KBs then I think person b) was much more effective. I do believe there is some skill in timing your abilities so that you don't get an enemy to 5% who then gets healed to full. But all stats matter. If person a) took 75k damage and died 5 times while person b) took 30k damage and died once that has to be taken into consideration.

  11. #11
    Rift Chaser Ming's Avatar
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    The PvPeen awards should be based on an index of:

    1. WFwins to losses
    2. KB's to deaths
    3. Average DPS/HPS placement per WF
    4. awarded by both calling and role within calling.

    As to who hosts the awards show that would be tough. And the May 2012 award for "best overall offensive tank in a WF goes to..."
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  12. #12
    Telaran
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    the only thing important is winning...it does not matter how it is done, as long as its a win.

    i use fan out when my side has already started getting the upperhand in hopes to maybe confuse a healer that isnt exactly the greatest yet. sometimes it works, sometimes they know whats going on and do not panic and i may get stomped into the ground in that situation.

    but either way damage is damage, AOE has its place, ST damage has its place. and the numbers dont mean jack at the end of the round without a win attached
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prolapse View Post

    but either way damage is damage, AOE has its place, ST damage has its place.
    I agree they compliment each other so well but many people don't seem to understand. When there is a heavy hitter using aoe or a couple people using aoe a few things happen.

    Healers often times stop single target healing the players who are taking single target damage and turn to raid heals or a decent amount of people will die. Unfortunately and sadly a lot of people panic when they take damage so some start to backpedal or flee altogether at this time due to heavy aoe. Since the healers are focusing on raid heals the st dps starts to lay into the current focus targets dropping them fast because they don't have a dedicated healer on them anymore. People start to die and the front line flee or die leaving their healers as the new front line and then it is easy pickings from there.

    Single target should like good aoe dps because it makes whatever they are hitting go down faster not only because the dmg they are taking from the aoe but also because the other sides healers are trying to keep up many people at once.

    AOErs should like st dps because they can finish off the targets that they get low.

    It is a win win situation having both.
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  14. #14
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    I'll take the guy with ten kills and low damage over the guy with a quarter mil damage. And three kills anyway and any day. I get a kick out of the people who say I'm a kill stealer when I have low total damage and high kill death ratio . I'm single target and built for burst, not to make pretty numbers. Envy me
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    I'll take the guy with ten kills and low damage over the guy with a quarter mil damage. And three kills anyway and any day. I get a kick out of the people who say I'm a kill stealer when I have low total damage and high kill death ratio . I'm single target and built for burst, not to make pretty numbers. Envy me
    Still can't beat me though :P
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