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Thread: Why rating systems and scoreboards do not work

  1. #1
    Plane Walker
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    Default Why rating systems and scoreboards do not work

    If you think that ratings and scoreboards encourage competition or are needed to bring out competition, then you do not belong PvPing as true PvPers already have the competitive edge needed to compete. The ones that need a boost are the same players I don't want in my guild or on my side.

    Slaying a poor soul and taking your loot works just fine for me and many others.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Menaace's Avatar
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    I only advocate for an accessible repository of stats so I can look at or even possible track whomever's stats I choose.

    If you sort it from top to bottom by whatever stat it becomes a leader board... yes, but it's intent is so I can look at the strengths and weaknesses of my own guildies, and potential applicants, to determine the best fit, like any manager of any professional sports team would do with college stats for baseball pitchers for example etc.

    My ideal pvp game would have a ladder and matches, and a chess style rating (you beat someone rated higher, you get eating points, lose to someone lower you lose points), and I can see who on my team for instance takes the least damage per death so I could work with them and make them more pro

    Its the public that turns leader boards and ratings into weewee show offs, but that's any sport, game, anything that has stats... Human condition is Unavoidable , but a stat board would be so handy for "competitive" pvp'rs
    Menaace - P50 Mage, Annihilator, Executioner, <MMAC> Guild Leader
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  3. #3
    Ascendant LOveRH's Avatar
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    To be honest i think everyone knows in the long run it won't work and it will open Rift into a lot of imbalance argument/epeen flaming but yeah, so would adding 'competitive arenas'. I feel this is just a way for Trion to give us something to do because of Guild Wars coming out and they want to save some of their pvp player base. They needed to add something else to endgame pvp that was fast and somewhat simple.

    Yeah so just be happy we have another pretty little toy to play with 1.8, i really won't over think it past that.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOveRH View Post
    To be honest i think everyone knows in the long run it won't work and it will open Rift into a lot of imbalance argument/epeen flaming but yeah, so would adding 'competitive arenas'. I feel this is just a way for Trion to give us something to do because of Guild Wars coming out and they want to save some of their pvp player base. They needed to add something else to endgame pvp that was fast and somewhat simple.

    Yeah so just be happy we have another pretty little toy to play with 1.8, i really won't over think it past that.
    Your right - it won't work, just a look at me tool that serves little purpose.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menaace View Post
    I only advocate for an accessible repository of stats so I can look at or even possible track whomever's stats I choose.

    If you sort it from top to bottom by whatever stat it becomes a leader board... yes, but it's intent is so I can look at the strengths and weaknesses of my own guildies, and potential applicants, to determine the best fit, like any manager of any professional sports team would do with college stats for baseball pitchers for example etc.

    My ideal pvp game would have a ladder and matches, and a chess style rating (you beat someone rated higher, you get eating points, lose to someone lower you lose points), and I can see who on my team for instance takes the least damage per death so I could work with them and make them more pro

    Its the public that turns leader boards and ratings into weewee show offs, but that's any sport, game, anything that has stats... Human condition is Unavoidable , but a stat board would be so handy for "competitive" pvp'rs
    Dear sir Menaace,

    If these boards includes or are based only on WF's I would take that info with a grain of salt. Scripted PvP is the last place I want info from. As we both can agree, terrible MM that can spam out in a WF (which anyone do) can lead a WF in kills and damage in scripted enviroments, but thrown into the open field of play is just trash.

    I rather just have a rep based system whereas word spreads in the open world and when they see xyz coming they **** their pants because they have something to actually lose.

    Some people mentioned using it to boost or encourage others to PvP and Im sure you wouldn't want guys that need encouragement to win in your guild.
    Last edited by Shadowboxerz; 03-22-2012 at 09:02 AM.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple Leoknife's Avatar
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    Default For the Love of God! Stop fanning out.

    I'm a P40 Rogue that primary plays MM in the Warfronts.

    There is nothing, and I mean nothing more irritating to me then to see another MM using fan out when someone is not trying to cap a point or grab a stone.

    Please for the love of God, help me kill those 2 clerics one at a time that are keeping their entire team up with focus fire. Your fluff damage is doing zero to help the effort.

    AoE when AoE is useful.

    This has been your friendly MM tip of the day.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    The scoreboards I don't think are meant to 'encourage competition', they are just stats people like to be aware of.

    Half of the leaderboard stats aren't even pvp stats. I remember EQ2 had like 15 categories. Everything from 'highest mana', 'most plat', 'most deaths'. Of course yes, some people let their toons afk over night with a bunch of gear (that nobody would realistically wear) that boosts HP by % gains just to be silly and make #1 on the leaderboard for a bit for most HP.

    I'm sure you could puppet the leaderboards a bit with some effort but I don't think they are meant to be major heavy weights of meaning as far as competition goes. Kind of like a fluff board. It will just show you statistics of things you have been doing the whole time along. Who cares how people interpret boards. Last I checked people can interpret mine however they want and it wont have a single impact on me. But I will have fun checking them out sometimes.
    New round up of some high rank matches
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  8. #8
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    Yeah I can solo queue and get 30+ kbs in a typical game on my mage, while topping damage by a huge margin. Really doesn't prove anything however, usually when you see people with those kind of stats there's a reason (usually gear or lack of enemy heals/competence).

    That kind of stuff never happens premade vs premade, or if it does, it wasn't evenly matched to begin with. So what does it prove? I can pick out newbs and 2 shot them.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Menaace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowboxerz View Post
    Dear sir Menaace,

    If these boards includes or are based only on WF's I would take that info with a grain of salt. Scripted PvP is the last place I want info from. As we both can agree, terrible MM that can spam out in a WF (which anyone do) can lead a WF in kills and damage in scripted enviroments, but thrown into the open field of play is just trash.

    I rather just have a rep based system whereas word spreads in the open world and when they see xyz coming they **** their pants because they have something to actually lose.

    Some people mentioned using it to boost or encourage others to PvP and Im sure you wouldn't want guys that need encouragement to win in your guild.
    You bring up valid points and I agree 100%. Some stats can be artificially inflated. You can't compare a pyro dps to an aoe fanout mm dps for instance. Which is why I personally don't look at those stats like they matter... the ones I care about are things like (here's an example) comparing people who are pyro, typical top players survive an average of 50k dmg per death (made up numbers) and MY team's pyro is only 20k... Time to investigate. Is it our heals, or him? Do I train him, rebuild him, or fire him, etc...

    In those scenarios, INFINITELY useful to find your own team's weak links, hire new players, trade players, or study your enemy's strengths and weaknesses. Stats alone are useless, only
    comparisons are useful, and results are subjective to my own answers to what I'm looking for.

    Anyone who says "look at me, top heals per wf" yes we'll all make fun of him, because anyone knows it just says the other team's dps is higher ;)
    Menaace - P50 Mage, Annihilator, Executioner, <MMAC> Guild Leader
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  10. #10
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    People who say this are people who can't top the boards
    ~Quiescent

  11. #11
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    People who say this are people who can't top the boards
    Hmm how about I rather be looting your grave and taking whats in yer napsacks than comparing numbers and saying look at me..[edit]
    Last edited by Augureze; 03-22-2012 at 11:46 AM. Reason: inappropriate language

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    The scoreboards I don't think are meant to 'encourage competition', they are just stats people like to be aware of.

    Half of the leaderboard stats aren't even pvp stats. I remember EQ2 had like 15 categories. Everything from 'highest mana', 'most plat', 'most deaths'. Of course yes, some people let their toons afk over night with a bunch of gear (that nobody would realistically wear) that boosts HP by % gains just to be silly and make #1 on the leaderboard for a bit for most HP.

    I'm sure you could puppet the leaderboards a bit with some effort but I don't think they are meant to be major heavy weights of meaning as far as competition goes. Kind of like a fluff board. It will just show you statistics of things you have been doing the whole time along. Who cares how people interpret boards. Last I checked people can interpret mine however they want and it wont have a single impact on me. But I will have fun checking them out sometimes.
    I never seen leader boards in anything PvP related unless it was an FPS.. AKA call of duty.. In an MMORPG, I just want to loot the inventory of a slayed player.. Simple.. I don't ask for much at all..

  13. #13
    Ascendant LOveRH's Avatar
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    Now i think about it its going to be really hard to justify scoreboards/ladder system being good or bad because we all don't know how developers plan to set it up and/or what factors attribute to higher or lower scores.

    I don't hate the idea because it will keep some pvpers busy but i can't really say anything because i don't know how it will work.

  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowboxerz View Post
    I never seen leader boards in anything PvP related unless it was an FPS.. AKA call of duty.. In an MMORPG, I just want to loot the inventory of a slayed player.. Simple.. I don't ask for much at all..
    Yeah but that is never going to happen in Rift. Leaderboards are better than the alternative of nothing.

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