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Thread: Does PvP become less fun the more you know about it?

  1. #1
    Ascendant Am0n's Avatar
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    Default Does PvP become less fun the more you know about it?

    This may be slightly off topic, but it is PvP relevant, maybe relevant to an entire game as a whole,
    but

    My point is, do you remember the first time you picked up a game, and it was new to you?

    Maybe I am a weirdo but I can remember the smells of a room, and that awesome feeling I got venturing into something I didn't know.

    Example: Runescape Classic: Me and my best friend everyday would get home from middle school and try to lure people out into the wildy just for a Rune Scim. If someone would drop one of those we would freak out and it was a party. Best feeling ever.

    Many years later I am selling gold in that game and making an IRL living off of it. It lost that fun factor.

    The same thing happened to me with Rift. I remember head start, and the early ages of Rift kicking *** with a bard spec, people thinking I was some kind of god. Bottle of Lifeleech, and Virt+ Coda of Wrath I thought was the most amazing thing in the world. Only later to realize that speccing a certain way maximized my DPS. I became fluent with my hotkeys and no longer needed macros. I knew how to configure my souls for any situation, and win, and now....It lost that fun feeling.
    Or that first time I brought down a para with a sab/bard spec
    mez stack det mez stack det, virt coda of wrath bottle of lifeleech =P

    Maybe it isn't the game that we are less attracted to. Maybe it is that in our quest to join the top tier we forgot that the adventure there and gaining knowledge was all the fun. After you get there, and have no one to challenge your abilities anymore it loses that appeal.

    Now after my little *bottom of the heart post* I am going to ask you Trion. Give us some competition. We have climbed your stairway and at the top. We found a plain boring plateau. No heaven to see here =(

    wtb more stairs
    Last edited by Am0n; 03-21-2012 at 01:38 AM.
    "You lost me at Balance"

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser
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    Heh, the fun does indeed coincide with the challenge for many peoples. When the challenge becomes less belligerent, the level of fun drops. This scenario also coincides with the idea of a challenging game being more fun - especially in the long haul - than a simplistic game.
    (It's 3AM and I was in a verbose 'mood', if you will, so don't be surprised if some of the above doesn't make all that much sense.)

    Competition is a good way to up the ante - to increase the 'challenge level'. Especially when major chunks of the game keep getting more and more simplistic.. easy... 'casual'.
    Last edited by TimeBomb; 03-21-2012 at 02:03 AM.

  3. #3
    Sword of Telara Sykk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Am0n View Post
    Now after my little *bottom of the heart post* I am going to ask you Trion. Give us some competition. We have climbed your stairway and at the top. We found a plain boring plateau. No heaven to see here =(

    wtb more stairs
    do you think something like an all r40 wf would be good enough?
    cus that doesn't sound like it would take a lot of time for them to create

  4. #4
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    My favorite times in my MMO history are when I knew nothing about the game and made mistakes.

    Imagine your first night of Minecraft without knowing anything about it.

  5. #5
    Ascendant LOveRH's Avatar
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    Probably both. It became more fun and less fun after i became more pvp aware. When i first started pvping i did it for fun and because of that i really didn't care if i won or lost or even died. I really enjoy that feeling when i look back at my journey to rank 40. I was just having fun and working for gear.

    As i advanced i started to notice patterns and stuff and rotations and read up specs... Yeah.. i ended up becoming more competitive. In a way this isn't bad, i like to challenge myself but i ended up getting into a lot of unwinnable situations and it frustrated me constantly. Certain players and/or classes would constantly kill me even though i put up a good fight.
    i enjoy pvp today but certain warfronts i don't enjoy from grinding them out or having a lot of bad experiences with teams on them. Still today if a NB/RS kills me after a 1min fight i still cry Rogue OP.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Vyxagallanxchi's Avatar
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    They say ignorance is bliss. I think that applies quite well here, at least for me.

    The more I learn about the game and how to play it, the less fun it is to play it. But I like learning .
    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    Think of a 30 meter circle around all ranged dps rogues and mages. Ranged dps can stand in the back line and focus fire targets without worrying about mobility and most forms of cc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    Sounds like an excellent plan for your healers to follow as well, as they have an even longer range on their heals.

  7. #7
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    Variety is the spice of life. I don't think it's related to how much you've learned. I think that learning provides a certain measure of variety in the experience. You see things a certain way until you learn how it works and then you see it differently. Once you start running out of things to learn, it starts to get stale. There's not a lot left to figure out and you're just going through the motions. Can you still have fun with it? Yes. But are you likely to be due for a break to re-inject some enthusiasm? Probably.

    I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who play the game for countless hours over a relatively short span of time and then get burnt out and rage about it. Just take a break. Spare yourself the public humiliation of juvenile forum behavior and go play something else for a while. When Rift seems like something you want to play again, even if only for a little while, come on back. That's all it needs to be.

  8. #8
    Ascendant ShalarLight's Avatar
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    It was after all the apple of knowledge that got them thrown out of paradise.

    I think there is Diminishing returns on learning about the game. It is very exciting to see a pattern for the first time when facing an opponent, like "if i save my cc for after flicker it works a lot better". But once you have the patterns all fixed, and counter things effortlessly, it can become stagnant, and takes a truly gifted opponent to shake up the status quo.

    But on the other end, not seeing the patterns can be quite frustrating as well, just running in blindly and not gleaning anything from the encounter must be frustrating.

    So I think it is a case of diminished returns, and is up to the beholder to adjust themselves to allow more room to learn, either by reducing the tools they have, or playing a new toon.

    There is 3 stages in a game's life cycle:
    the first stage is the nooby part, where everything is foreign and slightly confusing everything is daunting, it just seems huge and unconquerable, developers must try to keep this phase fairly easy to get thru, to get you adapted to their game and rolling along your way, or people simply give up.

    Phase 2 is the "golden zone" this is where developers want to keep players, you understand the systems and are making large progress, learning alot, generally having a good time. You are seeing patterns, and you are benefitting from it. The game needs to be in this phase for you personally to really have a good time.

    Phase 3, where a lot of players are now, you have plateaued, you are gaining by very small increments, nothing is new, nothing is exciting. Developers want to avoid letting players sit in this phase, but in a multiplayer environment, this phase is going to exist for people. This is when it becomes up to the gamer to challenge themselves to push themselves back into phase 2, either by like 6 manning 10 man content, or rolling a new toon, or purposely gimping yourself so your normal tactics wont work. If you arnt willing to challenge yourself, you are going to get bored, because the developers will lose people back to phase 1 who were in phase 2 in order to bring phase 2 to phase 3 gamers. There will be a time im MMOs where it just is up to the user to push themselves back to phase 2, not the developer, and that is usually at the end of a tier.
    Last edited by ShalarLight; 03-21-2012 at 07:05 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    FYI Riftstalker running isn't even pve. .... You might as well call riftstalker running PVE.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    My favorite times in my MMO history are when I knew nothing about the game and made mistakes.

    Imagine your first night of Minecraft without knowing anything about it.
    Zombies scared the bejeezus out of me.

    @OP: That's why this thing called "new content" makes games a lot more fun!
    Last edited by Zaros; 03-21-2012 at 07:07 AM.
    ~Quiescent

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple
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    It isn't less fun, just less exciting I think, but I see where you mean its lost luster.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker Ashrai's Avatar
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    I may be in the minority but the main reason I PVP instead of PVE after 5-6+ years of raiding is that PVP is ever changing and to me could never get boring. No matter how much knowledge you've absorbed, or how perfectly you have everything setup, someone will always come along that knows something you don't or throws you a curveball.

    I am definitely not in the "know everything" category, and in fact would consider myself in the "omg I had no idea so much more information was left to learn", so I have a ways to go before the luster wears off.

    I think it comes down to personality maybe. Some people show up to a job every day and do the same thing over and over. That would drive some people to go nuts with an AK47 in the halls one day. To others, they would start each day saying "today I'm going to do one thing better".

    And as I always say: when the day comes that you have nothing left to learn - go teach.
    Ashrai@Deepwood
    Sporeslinger of <Godlike Awesomeness>

  12. #12
    Plane Touched
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    There is a level of fun that comes with learning the game.
    There is a level of fun that comes with good competition.
    Problem with Rift, is that once you reach the top you don't run into real competition that often in PVP. It's more a matter of who got the good team, who got the scrub team. Who got a bunch of rank <P35 and who got a team decked out with higher levels than the opposition.
    I have had some really fun fights both before and after knowing the game, but once you know the game, the boredom between those good fights grows drastically.

    And to the point of a P40 only warfont, I think it would be a great idea....just don't know that there is enough interest to keep queues poping.

    On a side note, Terra should be done patching when I get home, so perhaps I'll have a fresh perspective on this tomorrow ;)

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    I was really enjoying the learning about the pvp for the first time in this game. finally made to level 50 and flet I had to start all over again, thats just how far behind the competition was and am. so I slowly worked my way up to rank 6 and bam just as i started buying my new top of the line gear the come out with rank 7and 8, back to the drawing board. anyways To much time and effort just to get their only feel like I had to start all over again..I really could see the differents the new gear was making along with learn what did and didnt work too. sorry but this game took to the best PVP experience to the worst. andi can no longer draw a sword in this world and have moved on. no need to reply. I currently looking to drop my subscription, havent been on in months

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