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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: If you cant capture it on video, it's probably a lie @ hot stacking lies.

  1. #1
    Ascendant Pesmergia's Avatar
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    Default If you cant capture it on video, it's probably a lie @ hot stacking lies.

    Which is what I think all this fuss over stacking hots in PvP is over, people overexaggerating just to get a class nerfed so they can laugh in secret while they have more of an advantage than you need.

    Between stuns, silences, fears, mana drains, eradicate spam, heal debuff -75%, and focusing marked targets in PvP with 4+ geared rank 40 DPS, you can't get past hot stacking? I call shenanigans.

    It's mathmatically impossible to survive that much incoming damage that fast, even if HoTs are rolling from 2-3 clerics in full, and 4 rank 40 dps isnt focus targeting much, I've been focused by MUCH more, upwards of 8-10 people, which is an often occurance.

    4 rank 40 dps can sustain well over 6k damage per second on a target in total, there's absolutely no way with a heal debuff on them that can can survive that outside of healers covenant, with all the above CC in the equation.

    End of discussion.

    If I am wrong make a video and show me, or shut up and admit it, you're trying to get cleric nerfed because you are bad.

    Please show me, I beg of you, prove it. Give me a video of 4-5 GOOD rank 40 dps focusing a healer down, time to make this community have a reality check.

    I am tired of all the lies getting classes nerfed for no reason, and I know I am not the only one tired of it.

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    to get a reliable argument you only can asume 5vs5 fights, cause these are the only controlled fights. All other is pugging and focussing targets etc. cant be a premise.

    in 5vs5 you have at least one healer and prbly a dominator. So maximum focus is 3 on 1 target. and there it gets difficult to get down a 2 cleric combo hotstacking. Of course you can argue, purge them etc. but dont forget the 3 dd from the other team are on your healers to, and when they arent 2 clerics at least the dominator gets down quickly and then the remaining cleric.

    This leave 5vs5 only with the choice playing 2 clerics minimum. Which limits pvp play unnecesary. In Warhammer Hots NEVER stacked and noone ever complained.

    Btw. soon AOE dmg will not stack either, it took Mythic about a year to realise this is a necessary change, and Trion will soon realise it too

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigonos View Post
    to get a reliable argument you only can asume 5vs5 fights, cause these are the only controlled fights. All other is pugging and focussing targets etc. cant be a premise.

    in 5vs5 you have at least one healer and prbly a dominator. So maximum focus is 3 on 1 target. and there it gets difficult to get down a 2 cleric combo hotstacking. Of course you can argue, purge them etc. but dont forget the 3 dd from the other team are on your healers to, and when they arent 2 clerics at least the dominator gets down quickly and then the remaining cleric.

    This leave 5vs5 only with the choice playing 2 clerics minimum. Which limits pvp play unnecesary. In Warhammer Hots NEVER stacked and noone ever complained.

    Btw. soon AOE dmg will not stack either, it took Mythic about a year to realise this is a necessary change, and Trion will soon realise it too
    PuGs are more than 5v5 and haven't you noticed how much higher geared the average player is now in comparison to 4 months ago?

    Just because you PuG doesn't automatically make you horrible, I PuG and have met many great PuG players.

    Also, 2 clerics doesn't matter, how can you balance for rank 2 beating on 1200 valor? Anything less than rank 6 shouldnt be dpsing in the first place.

    My argument stands, show me a video. Balance would be max geared vs max geared, and there's no 5v5 warfronts.

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    i dont say pugs are horrible, i say fokussing targets with more then 3 dd is less comon, and to balance you should premise 5vs5 fights. Balance is done for max rank fights.

    That 3 fully equipped r40 warriors can fokus down two r10 clerics that is possible i have no doubt

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    So your argument is that 4 skilled dps, max geared, focusing fire, with a healing debuff and erradicate spam, can usually kill a cleric healer, so there is no reason to look into mutli-warden HoT stacking.

    The only way you can post such a thing is if you are, in fact, completely in favor of cleric nerfs, and this preposterous statement is your best effort at an ironic faux defense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigonos View Post
    i dont say pugs are horrible, i say fokussing targets with more then 3 dd is less comon, and to balance you should premise 5vs5 fights. Balance is done for max rank fights.

    That 3 fully equipped r40 warriors can fokus down two r10 clerics that is possible i have no doubt
    Every WF I have 3 high rank DPS on me. It's actually the very opposite, very common, in PuG WFs.

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    When players stop trying to balance a class because of what happens in a WF (LMAO) maybe we would get somewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by handerhank View Post
    So your argument is that 4 skilled dps, max geared, focusing fire, with a healing debuff and erradicate spam, can usually kill a cleric healer, so there is no reason to look into mutli-warden HoT stacking.

    The only way you can post such a thing is if you are, in fact, completely in favor of cleric nerfs, and this preposterous statement is your best effort at an ironic faux defense.
    I never said that.

    Matter of fact you need none of the above but a heal debuff to kill a healer with 2x clerics hot stacking.

    I said you have all those tools to kill them, different WFs mix and match for different combinations of those tools that are used.

    You didn't read what I put, I put give me a video or 4 geared DPS beating on a healer with a heal debuff, with 2 clerics hots stacking and see how long they last.

    YOU are the one that said you need eradicate + everything else to counter it, not me.

    You're just blatantly trying to skew the argument away from what I initially put, which I explicitly made it clear to show me a video of 4 dps beating on a healer. I never said show me a video of 4 dps + erad spammer + everything else focusing.

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    Honestly if you and another r40 cleric CANT stay alive through a couple dps you should delete your toon. You come here acting like once you put hots up you just stand there hoping they work.

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    4 rank 40 dps can sustain well over 6k damage per second on a target in total
    Ya except in pvp, with all the stuns, mana drains, interrupts going on, no one is out there sustained dmg of 1500 dps. Where a stack of rolling hots from one cleric can easily hit 1.2k per tick of soothing stream, easily and on average gear. Where as 1.5k dps in a pvp situation would take full relics from HK, the HK set, and being allowed to completely free cast. Your numbers are very skewed and the shenannigans I see are your numbers. 2-3 Soothing stream stacks, plus cleanses, plus fall out AoE healing from any bards, chloros, justicar etc is a HUGE amount of incoming healing, healing designed to keep people alive thru raid mechanics. So while you are completely fabricating your point about how much dps an individual will pull against 40% dmg reduction + all of their attacks are not high dmg attacks, as in pvp you need to use your utility spells, not just a damage rotation, The only point I can see you trying to make is you have issues healing through unexpected heavy pressure. Not all clerics do, hence the toning down of hot stacking.

    Also there is no such thing as a 75% healing debuff.
    End of discussion.
    Last edited by ShalarLight; 03-20-2012 at 05:37 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    FYI Riftstalker running isn't even pve. .... You might as well call riftstalker running PVE.

  11. #11
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    I can stay alive with a couple dps on me, of course hots wont do all the work.

    The argument is about staying alive through a train.

    And healing through pyro/dom x 2 plus geared rogue + warrior is nasty when you get tunnel visioned even with a back up heal.

    You will.die if cooldowns arent up as it is. After the nerf its going to be sad.

    2 clerics are hard to take down if high ranked, but no where near the level of immortality as the community puts it.

    Its clear you havent participated against geared competant players who know how to train hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pesmergia View Post
    If I am wrong make a video and show me, or shut up and admit it, you're trying to get cleric nerfed because you are bad.
    What do you mean "trying"? The adjustment is on the PTS, which means it's pretty much a done deal. It means the devs have looked at their numbers. You know, numbers, not opinions. And they've determined from those numbers that stacking HoTs is not working.

    So now if you want to see them revert the change, I'd say the burden on proof is on you.

    See how that works? We don't have to prove jack. The changes are on their way.

  13. #13
    General of Telara
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    The truth is that people want powerful healers, but only on their side.

    I'm betting on a big return of the "OMG WHY U NO HEALING?!?" in 1.8 to take over from the twink threads we had since 1.7.

  14. #14
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    You think you should be allowed to just heal through your hard counter, dom? Pretty much your only hard counter, and only after about 20 seconds of mana draining, unless you're dumb enough to cast with their debuffs up.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Pesmergia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShalarLight View Post
    Ya except in pvp, with all the stuns, mana drains, interrupts going on, no one is out there sustained dmg of 1500 dps. Where a stack of rolling hots from one cleric can easily hit 1.2k per tick of soothing stream, easily and on average gear. Where as 1.5k dps in a pvp situation would take full relics from HK, the HK set, and being allowed to completely free cast. Your numbers are very skewed and the shenannigans I see are your numbers. 2-3 Soothing stream stacks, plus cleanses, plus fall out AoE healing from any bards, chloros, justicar etc is a HUGE amount of incoming healing, healing designed to keep people alive thru raid mechanics. So while you are completely fabricating your point about how much dps an individual will pull against 40% dmg reduction + all of their attacks are not high dmg attacks, as in pvp you need to use your utility spells, not just a damage rotation, The only point I can see you trying to make is you have issues healing through unexpected heavy pressure. Not all clerics do, hence the toning down of hot stacking.

    Also there is no such thing as a 75% healing debuff.
    I dont see many bard chloro or justi in PvP. Maybe every once in a while.

    Also PvP is about unhealable burst line up. You can coordinate crazy damage in 2 seconds. Maybe 1500 was a hair off but not much from a fully geared R40.

    The damage per second vs big crits in rapid succession from more than 3 dps will kill a skilled cleric going all out fully prepared and pre hotted.

    Ive had to read my combat log numerous times being fully hotted with no cds up, and going 100-0 in 2 seconds from focus fire.

    No amount of skill can prevent that, it happens to the best, I've seen it.

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