If you cant capture it on video, it's probably a lie @ hot stacking lies.

[Haddaway]

1500 sustained dps is way way way off, just because someone can accomplish 1500-2k in a global does not mean by any standard they are able to do it every global.

[ShalarLight]

I dont see many bard chloro or justi in PvP. Maybe every once in a while.

Also PvP is about unhealable burst line up. You can coordinate crazy damage in 2 seconds. Maybe 1500 was a hair off but not much from a fully geared R40.

The damage per second vs big crits in rapid succession from more than 3 dps will kill a skilled cleric going all out fully prepared and pre hotted.

Ive had to read my combat log numerous times being fully hotted with no cds up, and going 100-0 in 2 seconds from focus fire.

No amount of skill can prevent that, it happens to the best, I've seen it.

Chloro and justicar are most certainly prevalant. Are you sure you are playing Rift? Cuz you have to play rift to see those classes. Stop rushing into the hornets nest. It sounds to me like your awareness and positioning can use some serious overhauls. Not to mention class recognition, debuff recognition, and you need to cleanse more.

[Bleeds]

I can stay alive with a couple dps on me, of course hots wont do all the work.

The argument is about staying alive through a train.

And healing through pyro/dom x 2 plus geared rogue + warrior is nasty when you get tunnel visioned even with a back up heal.

You will.die if cooldowns arent up as it is. After the nerf its going to be sad.

2 clerics are hard to take down if high ranked, but no where near the level of immortality as the community puts it.

Its clear you havent participated against geared competant players who know how to train hard.

Just the fact that you're arguing that changes to one single cleric spec will ruin cleric viability is a pretty clear indicator that that particular spec is overpowered relative to others.

If there was 5 man arena running in 1.7, I can guarantee you the winning comp would involve two wardens, and most likely 2 warriors and a 5th whatever. You can have your opinion, and maybe you're right, but in my (somewhat valid point of view I think) Cleric (warden) crosshealing in 1.7 is unequivocally broken.

[TheKomissar]

Just the fact that you're arguing that changes to one single cleric spec will ruin cleric viability is a pretty clear indicator that that particular spec is overpowered relative to others.

If there was 5 man arena running in 1.7, I can guarantee you the winning comp would involve two wardens, and most likely 2 warriors and a 5th whatever. You can have your opinion, and maybe you're right, but in my (somewhat valid point of view I think) Cleric (warden) crosshealing in 1.7 is unequivocally broken.

You came up with just about the same combination as I did. 2 Wardens crosshealing, 2 warriors (One Ragestorm spec, the other 38 VK), and a Dominator.

[Antigonos]

You came up with just about the same combination as I did. 2 Wardens crosshealing, 2 warriors (One Ragestorm spec, the other 38 VK), and a Dominator.

thats the premades i was talking about nearly indestructible on equal gear level.

[TheKomissar]

thats the premades i was talking about nearly indestructible on equal gear level.

Would be fun to have two teams like that against each other, though.

[Undrsiege]

Just the fact that you're arguing that changes to one single cleric spec will ruin cleric viability is a pretty clear indicator that that particular spec is overpowered relative to others.

If there was 5 man arena running in 1.7, I can guarantee you the winning comp would involve two wardens, and most likely 2 warriors and a 5th whatever. You can have your opinion, and maybe you're right, but in my (somewhat valid point of view I think) Cleric (warden) crosshealing in 1.7 is unequivocally broken.

I don't much care about the nerf to warden since any healing spec that has no offense is bottom of the totem pole. I guess we can ask the question why is the best dominator ability available at only 31 points in the soul, not much reason to honestly go any higher. Perhaps in the future we see that ability at around 44 points in the tree and then we can watch your forum rage.

So like you said about your opinon, in my opinion the skill is to powerful for 31 points in the soul and I am sure many non mages agree, moving it to 44 will force alot different specs than the garbage being ran today... Oh and before you say it SP is beyond easy to purge so I don't even have a issue with it but when moving it to 44 it should become immune to purge.

Another fix is have the damage scale by points in the soul...

[Bleeds]

I guess we can ask the question why is the best dominator ability available at only 31 points in the soul, not much reason to honestly go any higher.

That's a good point - I for one would gladly swap Traiterous Influence ("best dominator ability available") to 51 points for Mass Betrayal at 31 points.

But regardless of your Red Herring argument, having two P40 dominators in a group doesn't completely dictate the metagame. Having two wardens does. Crosshealing since the valor buffs is absolutely broken. I can't even imagine how anyone would actually enjoy the gameplay that comes from it.

[Zaros]

Which is what I think all this fuss over stacking hots in PvP is over, people overexaggerating just to get a class nerfed so they can laugh in secret while they have more of an advantage than you need.

Between stuns, silences, fears, mana drains, eradicate spam, heal debuff -75%, and focusing marked targets in PvP with 4+ geared rank 40 DPS, you can't get past hot stacking? I call shenanigans.

It's mathmatically impossible to survive that much incoming damage that fast, even if HoTs are rolling from 2-3 clerics in full, and 4 rank 40 dps isnt focus targeting much, I've been focused by MUCH more, upwards of 8-10 people, which is an often occurance.

4 rank 40 dps can sustain well over 6k damage per second on a target in total, there's absolutely no way with a heal debuff on them that can can survive that outside of healers covenant, with all the above CC in the equation.

End of discussion.

If I am wrong make a video and show me, or shut up and admit it, you're trying to get cleric nerfed because you are bad.

Please show me, I beg of you, prove it. Give me a video of 4-5 GOOD rank 40 dps focusing a healer down, time to make this community have a reality check.

I am tired of all the lies getting classes nerfed for no reason, and I know I am not the only one tired of it.

MMAC and TFS did 10v0s last night, where MMAC had 3 cleric healers. Our dps consisted of me, another rogue, and three warriors. We had constant eradicate spam on our focus target, along with lingering wounds and the DPS of 4-5 people--it took easily 15, usually 20 to 30 seconds for the focus target to get taken down. And that's with eradispam--if we didn't have two Marksmen eradicating defensive CDs and one MM eradicating hits, they most likely would've never died.

[Bleeds]

Would be fun to have two teams like that against each other, though.

That's the thing though... in my experience it's not fun at all. It's slow, no consequences horse****. It's bowling with bumpers in the gutters.

As skill and gear increases, PVP should become more complex and dynamic. There should be more "storylines" present. But instead, having 2 P40 wardens crosshealing each other squashes every other storyline and replaces it with one. And it's a ****ty one at that.

[Vihar]

I have a R40 cleric and R 40 mage....something like 300K kills between my toons.

Stacking HoT's is one of the most broken mechanics in Rift.

It's not about ONE cleric stacking...it is about 3 or 4 clerics all running warden and stacking HoT's.

You mentioned 4 DPSers focusing and what DPS they can do.

How much HPS can 4 wardens put out stacking HoT's on one target? Or a party of 5?

I can put out some serious single target DPS on my mage (Vengeance + SP = 2200ish)...but against a group with 3 or 4 semi-competent wardens, I can't even make a dent on anyone in the group. The health bar doesn't even move.

That's a broken mechanic.

Warden HoT's should overwrite, not stack.

I am not one of these guys who thinks clerics are OP, and one DPSer should be able to kill a healer, either.

I actually think clerics are UNDERpowered, except in this one regard.

[Wawer]

This leave 5vs5 only with the choice playing 2 clerics minimum. Which limits pvp play unnecesary. In Warhammer Hots NEVER stacked and noone ever complained.

Btw. soon AOE dmg will not stack either, it took Mythic about a year to realise this is a necessary change, and Trion will soon realise it too

Correction:In Warhammer Online, HOTs by multiplier healers DO STACK.
Oh and you are right on the part that no one complain because compare to Hot which click like 600 every 3 sec on one target. A DOK/WP Group heal that heal 6 ppl for 1k~3k every sec is way more potent.

[Licentia]

Warden HoT's should overwrite, not stack.

I don't know about overwrite. I *think* I read somewhere that with the new changes, wardens can essentially help one another build a stack on a target faster which makes sense. Instead of competing almost against each other and undoing what the others are doing, it means that if you've got three wardens on one target, that target will be fully loaded with HoTs in 2ish GCDs instead of 4+.

[ShalarLight]

I don't know about overwrite. I *think* I read somewhere that with the new changes, wardens can essentially help one another build a stack on a target faster which makes sense. Instead of competing almost against each other and undoing what the others are doing, it means that if you've got three wardens on one target, that target will be fully loaded with HoTs in 2ish GCDs instead of 4+.

not to mention, focusing on the soothing stream adjustments as a nerf completely pverlooks the Huge buff they are giving deluge, where you can benefit from any water based hot on the target, not just your own.

All in all, this thread is a bad one.

[Ming]

There's little point in trying to convince some people. Under the most ideal of healing circumstances with 4+ clerics cross-healing (all clerics stacking 4 Soothing Streams one target) the multiple stacks might have been OP, however this is the exception. That's 4GCD's per cleric spent stacking them just to keep one person alive... which leaves any one of those clerics vulnerable. Frankly, the only time it might ever happen that I can think of would be during turtling in whitefall on the flag holder. Rogues and warriors can be COMPLETELY OP in every way in PvP and they just get more buffs. Hell in 1.8 warriors are going to be even more ridiculous. There's always just not playing Rift at all I guess if the devs want to screw certain classes.