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Thread: Debuffs stack but HoTs Don't? Logic???

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Debuffs stack but HoTs Don't? Logic???

    SO with the upcoming cripple to the warden soul are Trion planning to do anything about this? Eradicate can sort out stacking of HoT's unless im mistaken but there isn't enough cures in the world to cure the amount of debuffs that stack on you when you have two or more rogues/warriors on you.

    http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/3...0318142643.jpg



    Seems like seriously flawed logic to me and needs looking at big time. You can't have one set of rules to try and balance things yet leave stuff like this and say it's fine.

    This only the PvP side of the epic borking of the warden soul I haven't even touched on the PVe implications of this ridiculous upcoming update.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    I don't agree with the nerfs either, but this is pretty flawed logic.

    Do debuffs deal the same amount of damage as your hots heal for?

    And afaik, Warden nerfs don't have very many PvE implications, since most of the healers there are either icars, or puri/sents.

    That being said, I think they should've started smaller..Like with just the soothing stream nerfs, keeping the overflow and healing flood.
    Last edited by Zaros; 03-18-2012 at 06:53 AM.
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    I wouldn't have minded if they had nerfed warden harder. The metagame with more than 1 warden in a fight right now is complete utter trash - oh awesome, another black garden where everyone stands around for 5 minutes like we're parsing on dummies.

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    Although I agree that wardens are a *little* over the top right now, I've noticed that the majority of the people that complain about it run hybrid or survivability specs. I can't burn a warden down in my hybrids but I can rip through most wardens in 51 pyro.
    KABOOM!

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    Thank hell, this meta was ******ed when the other team had 2+ wardens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuitaran View Post
    Although I agree that wardens are a *little* over the top right now, I've noticed that the majority of the people that complain about it run hybrid or survivability specs. I can't burn a warden down in my hybrids but I can rip through most wardens in 51 pyro.
    I don't want to sound like I'm trolling, but I'm pretty sure the wardens you are talking about were probably really low ranked.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by HannonHellbringer View Post
    I don't want to sound like I'm trolling, but I'm pretty sure the wardens you are talking about were probably really low ranked.
    Unthinkable from Seastone is 40 and fully geared, I've put him down several times. Sometimes it takes a while ;-D
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleeds View Post
    I wouldn't have minded if they had nerfed warden harder. The metagame with more than 1 warden in a fight right now is complete utter trash - oh awesome, another black garden where everyone stands around for 5 minutes like we're parsing on dummies.
    I agree. I was in a BG match last weekend where the enemy team had three wardens that produced 200k healing each. They were bunny hopping around in front of their teammates because they knew they couldn't be killed. Most of my team refused to leave the GY ledge after the first couple of minutes but me being me I decided to jump down and take a go at one of these guys. I couldn't get his health bar below 70%, and that only came after a series of crits with oGCDs, an interrupt, and a kick (for another interrupt) and that only lasted a fraction of a second before they were full again.

    This HoT change isn't a nerf to individual warden healing. It's a nerf to multiple warden healing and specifically, warden cross-healing.

  9. #9
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    I play a Warden, I've been playing Warden since I hit 50 almost a year ago. Stacking HoTs are pretty crucial when we get focus-fired and we need to cross-heal each other.

    I've played games in PS where I've taken more than 700k damage, and in other WFs it's common to take 200k damage. Along with that, good teams will combine DPS with mana drain and also purge my HoTs.

    Killing a Warden really isn't hard, between all the above-mentioned stuff, plus interrupts, crowd control, and the ability to silence a Warden for 8 seconds. DPS classes have the tools to kill Wardens.

    This change by Trion is basically: We understand you don't want to use all your buttons to kill healers, and using the occasional CC, silence or purge is not sexy, therefore we've made it so that you can kill healers by mashing your DPS buttons and macros and not having to think about anything.
    Arete@Threesprings - Starslight@Wolfsbane

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    Banned Shadowprison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetSeoul View Post
    I play a Warden, I've been playing Warden since I hit 50 almost a year ago. Stacking HoTs are pretty crucial when we get focus-fired and we need to cross-heal each other.

    I've played games in PS where I've taken more than 700k damage, and in other WFs it's common to take 200k damage. Along with that, good teams will combine DPS with mana drain and also purge my HoTs.

    Killing a Warden really isn't hard, between all the above-mentioned stuff, plus interrupts, crowd control, and the ability to silence a Warden for 8 seconds. DPS classes have the tools to kill Wardens.

    This change by Trion is basically: We understand you don't want to use all your buttons to kill healers, and using the occasional CC, silence or purge is not sexy, therefore we've made it so that you can kill healers by mashing your DPS buttons and macros and not having to think about anything.


    Woah there, thats blashpemy around these here parts.

    Here, take this fire extinguisher.

  11. #11
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    Also I want to say something else:

    As a Warden I can survive five DPS nuking at me if they are clueless and they don't do anything besides button-mash. No CC, no silence, no purge, no mana drain, no interrupts, no stuns, no snares.

    But two (and sometimes one, if the player is exceptional) DPS can take me down by using all the things mentioned above.

    I suspect this change is fueled by the tears of the first group mentioned, the groups of five-plus nukers who don't use their CC/silence/stuns or don't even have them on their hot bars. I have seen them yelling at me in WFs, nerd raging about how I'm supposedly OP in my PvP gear that hasn't been updated in 6 months and has exactly the same item budget as their PvP gear.

    The difference is I use all the abilities Trion gives me, and I don't complain that I can't do things because I'm lazy.
    Arete@Threesprings - Starslight@Wolfsbane

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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetSeoul View Post
    Also I want to say something else:

    As a Warden I can survive five DPS nuking at me if they are clueless and they don't do anything besides button-mash. No CC, no silence, no purge, no mana drain, no interrupts, no stuns, no snares.

    But two (and sometimes one, if the player is exceptional) DPS can take me down by using all the things mentioned above.

    I suspect this change is fueled by the tears of the first group mentioned, the groups of five-plus nukers who don't use their CC/silence/stuns or don't even have them on their hot bars. I have seen them yelling at me in WFs, nerd raging about how I'm supposedly OP in my PvP gear that hasn't been updated in 6 months and has exactly the same item budget as their PvP gear.

    The difference is I use all the abilities Trion gives me, and I don't complain that I can't do things because I'm lazy.

    CC eh?

    Tell me what that is again, I seem to have forgetten with all the BREAKFREE and IMMUNE being tossed about these days.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetSeoul View Post
    Also I want to say something else:

    As a Warden I can survive five DPS nuking at me if they are clueless and they don't do anything besides button-mash. No CC, no silence, no purge, no mana drain, no interrupts, no stuns, no snares.

    But two (and sometimes one, if the player is exceptional) DPS can take me down by using all the things mentioned above.

    I suspect this change is fueled by the tears of the first group mentioned, the groups of five-plus nukers who don't use their CC/silence/stuns or don't even have them on their hot bars. I have seen them yelling at me in WFs, nerd raging about how I'm supposedly OP in my PvP gear that hasn't been updated in 6 months and has exactly the same item budget as their PvP gear.

    The difference is I use all the abilities Trion gives me, and I don't complain that I can't do things because I'm lazy.
    This sums it up entirely.
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    I understand you want to kill healers without sparing any brainpower to do it. That's not surprising to me, because every day I heal MMs, Mages and Inquisitors who stand in one place and do not move at all when the other team's DPS are beating on them.

    What you really want is PvP with no counters, no movement, no teamwork, no coordination...just everyone standing there hitting the "FIRE!" button.

    But then, why not make a game where you can play as British people in powdered wigs, instead of a fantasy MMO? Then you can all stand in a line, hit your fire buttons, reload, and fire again. How delightful.
    Arete@Threesprings - Starslight@Wolfsbane

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetSeoul View Post
    I understand you want to kill healers without sparing any brainpower to do it. That's not surprising to me, because every day I heal MMs, Mages and Inquisitors who stand in one place and do not move at all when the other team's DPS are beating on them.

    What you really want is PvP with no counters, no movement, no teamwork, no coordination...just everyone standing there hitting the "FIRE!" button.

    But then, why not make a game where you can play as British people in powdered wigs, instead of a fantasy MMO? Then you can all stand in a line, hit your fire buttons, reload, and fire again. How delightful.

    I think you need to adapt and learn to LoS.

    Take notes pal.

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