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Thread: Treat W.F's as a dungeon or raid !

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Treat W.F's as a dungeon or raid !

    OK first post so be gentle ladies.

    first off smelling and grandma are optional and interchangeable due to my present age and mental capacitor.

    I enjoy W.F's immensely but wonder why they are not treated in general as you would a dungeon or
    raid.?

    for example team broken up into goup/groups of tank healer dps...etc

    rather than the ramboesque/keystone cop cavalry charge of doom we normally see.?

    when a team play as a team and take up the normal roles of a typical dungeon/raid group they dominate.

    i get advice/questions as to why i tank spec in a W.F which i find strange because if i do get a healer and we work together we can dominate in our area of the W.F

    so is it better/ok to treat a W.F as a dungeon/raid would be treated?

    apart from a few comma's/capitalization's etc

    some mistakes are intentional as a general test of irony and or sarcasm...

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser
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    when a team play as a team and take up the normal roles of a typical dungeon/raid group they dominate.
    either group as a pre-made..

    or before it starts take the initiative, and try to organize your team. see whos healing, where you want to go, and whos marking their healers.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadezz View Post
    either group as a pre-made..

    or before it starts take the initiative, and try to organize your team. see whos healing, where you want to go, and whos marking their healers.

    ok take it for granted that i do the above...apart from the premade ...! any form of organized religion worries me...


    just wanted to know why i dont seem to come across many others who think like this in fact usually the opposite ?

  4. #4
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by art bartram View Post
    ok take it for granted that i do the above...apart from the premade ...! any form of organized religion worries me...


    just wanted to know why i dont seem to come across many others who think like this in fact usually the opposite ?
    Unfortunately people have a mis-informed idea that KB's are all that matter. I proved on my rogue a long time ago that they mean nothing, just for my own piece of mind that i wasnt damaging the team by having low KB count.

    Teamwork wins warfronts, gear can sometimes win warfronts, KB's alone do not.

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    I would like to see ppl enter a warfront as their selected pvp soul and make it so it can't be changed once in the warfront. That way each team can have roughly equal number of heals tanks and dps.

    This would also avoid the very annoying soul swapping before and after a wf if you are farming or questing.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Appendy's Avatar
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    No to that ^

    Quote Originally Posted by art bartram View Post
    for example team broken up into goup/groups of tank healer dps...etc
    That would never work. Clerics and mages could queue as heals but that wouldn't force them into a heal spec. In a 5-man instance it kind of matters whether there is a healer... warfronts is a different beast.

    Queue premade and your problem is solved. Other than that, PUG LYFE!
    Last edited by Appendy; 03-14-2012 at 04:31 AM.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appendy View Post
    No to that ^



    That would never work.[/SIZE]Clerics and mages could queue as heals but that wouldn't force them into a heal spec. In a 5-man instance it kind of matters whether there is a healer... warfronts is a different beast.

    Queue premade and your problem is solved. Other than that, PUG LYFE!
    this is of course your opinion based on your experience and or knowledge.

    but in my experience and to my knowledge it can and does work,applying dungeon/raid team mechanics to W.F's wins W.F's and makes playing them more enjoyable imo for all concerned

    i suppose my question was a wish to spark a debate as to why it's not the accepted way to play W.F's in general


    you say..."In a 5-man instance it kind of matters whether there is a healer"

    ..dont know where to go with this...it does matter....you telling me people run dungeons/raids without a healer...?


    so i ask in what way are they a different beast...?

    dungeon group is a team trying to defeat an objective .

    w.f is a group is a team trying to defeat a team.

    how could these two things be different beasts...same tactics applied to both scenarios would surely achieve similar results.

    just because something is how it is doesn't mean it should stay that way.

    also doesn't mean things should be the way i suggest i spose..w.f's are sposed to be fun not a job.

    nice to debate stuff thou .. knowledge is power

  8. #8
    Ascendant LOveRH's Avatar
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    You can't treat WFs as if they were dungeons.... there is just so many factors that come into play. For example, the gear and ranking of your team and theirs, what classes you have vs theres and the skill level of both sides. There is no way you could organize all of that before the match even starts. There are matches won just by going pure dps even though the other side had 3 healers.

    Treat wfs as if your in WAR. Stay together and make smart pushes and work on positioning; not have the tank run in there and try to taunt the enemies :c.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Byona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoek View Post
    I would like to see ppl enter a warfront as their selected pvp soul and make it so it can't be changed once in the warfront. That way each team can have roughly equal number of heals tanks and dps.

    This would also avoid the very annoying soul swapping before and after a wf if you are farming or questing.
    No it wouldnt, as a cleric you are asking me to stay a healer outside of WF so i can join the WF as a healer, which means i will not be able to farm, quest, etc.
    See you all in Wildstar!

  10. #10
    Ascendant Appendy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by art bartram View Post
    you say..."In a 5-man instance it kind of matters whether there is a healer"

    ..dont know where to go with this...it does matter....you telling me people run dungeons/raids without a healer...?


    so i ask in what way are they a different beast...?
    "it kind of matters" meaning yes you do need a healer since you have one dedicated tank to hold aggro and soak up the damage and 2 dedicated dps to deal it. You also have a support queue but most of the times they end up being dps.

    How are warfronts a different beast?

    A tank can not pull aggro and hold it in a warfront. It doesn't work the same way as dungeons where you taunt mobs and they all focus you. These are real players who will, if they're smart, go for the healer and tear his head off instead. You can't predict their movements, you can not time their casts. There is more situational awareness involved in warfronts since the battlefield is constantly changing. Of course you need heals but you can't force anyone to spec a certain way in PvP. So yeah, it's a lot different than a dungeon that plays out the same way every time. Different beast.

    You know what? It's not impossible to win warfronts without dedicated healers. You just have to be aware of your environment and control your surroundings, as in snaring/fearing enemies and losing nasty casts (which most people won't do). The problem with a lot of people when they see the green + sign is that they feel it gives them license to be completely reckless on the battlefield while expecting to be kept up by a healer. It doesn't work so well, which is why you hear so much crying about "heals?!!!" in chat.

    To be honest, I think if healers are treated better in warfronts, you'd see a lot more of them queuing as heals. If the team is acting terrible, all over the place, and losing the healer, you'll see me run around the corner and switch to dps spec real fast. I can keep myself up.

    Again my advice would be to create a premade and coordinate to your hearts content. Some pugs are awesome, but a lot of them suck. It is what it is.

  11. #11
    Sword of Telara Sykk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by art bartram View Post
    I enjoy W.F's immensely but wonder why they are not treated in general as you would a dungeon or
    raid.?

    for example team broken up into goup/groups of tank healer dps...etc

    rather than the ramboesque/keystone cop cavalry charge of doom we normally see.?
    1st complaint i can think of would be that it would stop us from being able to change spec

    otherwise, i think it would be a good 2nd option to warfronts
    as in having both versions instead of eliminating the current one

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appendy View Post
    "it kind of matters" meaning yes you do need a healer since you have one dedicated tank to hold aggro and soak up the damage and 2 dedicated dps to deal it. You also have a support queue but most of the times they end up being dps.

    How are warfronts a different beast?

    A tank can not pull aggro and hold it in a warfront. It doesn't work the same way as dungeons where you taunt mobs and they all focus you. These are real players who will, if they're smart, go for the healer and tear his head off instead. You can't predict their movements, you can not time their casts. There is more situational awareness involved in warfronts since the battlefield is constantly changing. Of course you need heals but you can't force anyone to spec a certain way in PvP. So yeah, it's a lot different than a dungeon that plays out the same way every time. Different beast.

    You know what? It's not impossible to win warfronts without dedicated healers. You just have to be aware of your environment and control your surroundings, as in snaring/fearing enemies and losing nasty casts (which most people won't do). The problem with a lot of people when they see the green + sign is that they feel it gives them license to be completely reckless on the battlefield while expecting to be kept up by a healer. It doesn't work so well, which is why you hear so much crying about "heals?!!!" in chat.

    To be honest, I think if healers are treated better in warfronts, you'd see a lot more of them queuing as heals. If the team is acting terrible, all over the place, and losing the healer, you'll see me run around the corner and switch to dps spec real fast. I can keep myself up.

    Again my advice would be to create a premade and coordinate to your hearts content. Some pugs are awesome, but a lot of them suck. It is what it is.
    may i just remind you my question was about teams of players acting as a team i.e as they do in instances,not about individual play styles i.e healing dps etc..

    the pre made thing is a given but for me there are other solutions possibilities we could leave ourselves open to discuss.

    rather than the world ending tuff ***** thats the way it is lmao

    good job Marconi ford Einstein et al kept a more enthused outlook on what might be possible.

    but i suppose it does come down to individuals more than it does in an instance..maybe if we had some W.f where you had to pick a role and stick to it for the duration of the W.f we would learn more about ourselves as players and the game in general...tnx for the excellent replies its good to talk..

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by art bartram View Post
    may i just remind you my question was about teams of players acting as a team i.e as they do in instances,not about individual play styles i.e healing dps etc..

    the pre made thing is a given but for me there are other solutions possibilities we could leave ourselves open to discuss.

    rather than the world ending tuff ***** thats the way it is lmao

    good job Marconi ford Einstein et al kept a more enthused outlook on what might be possible.

    but i suppose it does come down to individuals more than it does in an instance..maybe if we had some W.f where you had to pick a role and stick to it for the duration of the W.f we would learn more about ourselves as players and the game in general...tnx for the excellent replies its good to talk..


    i think i overstretched my remit linking what is an excellent game with groundbreaking inventors...maybe trying to hard to push my point...apologise pretentiousness breeds bovine manure in this case...

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