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Thread: New ranks and gears in 1.8?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnefice View Post
    If you play both aspect of the game you can't lose. In my opinion, playing both aspects of the game should give you an advantage over someone who plays one aspect of the game, every single time.
    .
    So
    PvE + PvP = advantage PvP
    But
    PvP + PvE = NO advantage PvE

    So a PVP'er has to raid end level content, but raiders gain nothing from PVP? sounds fair.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosspring View Post
    So
    PvE + PvP = advantage PvP
    But
    PvP + PvE = NO advantage PvE

    So a PVP'er has to raid end level content, but raiders gain nothing from PVP? sounds fair.
    Question...

    Do you really want a ton of uninterested, more likely to AFK PvE'ers pushed into WF's to get their 'needed' PvP gear?

    And "Has to" is relative.
    Last edited by Meina; 03-13-2012 at 09:44 AM.

  3. #18
    Rift Chaser Ming's Avatar
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    PvE specific items giving a significant PvP advantage over items obtainable doing PvP content is poor game design.

    1. I enjoy PvP specifically because it doesn't demand that I meet anyone's schedule.
    2. Maxing rank in PvP still requires a lot of time and dedication.
    3. Raid obtained items balanced for PvE DPS being used in PvP has a negating effect on those did spent the time to max out PvP but can't/chose not to raid.

    The counter of course is "yes but those who spent EVEN MORE TIME to get said raid items as well as maxing their PvP rank and gear deserve said advantage." To which I would reply that the PvP equivalents should be obtainable through PvP content rather than non-raiding players being given the choice between being pushed toward raiding or being at a PvP disadvantage. It's especially bad design given the tons of playtime PvP folks have already spent when, had they known it would be this way they would have possibly just flat out played a different game. It's a slap in the face.
    Last edited by Ming; 03-13-2012 at 10:11 AM.
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  4. #19
    Plane Walker Carnefice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosspring View Post

    PvP + PvE = NO advantage PvE

    So a PVP'er has to raid end level content, but raiders gain nothing from PVP? sounds fair.
    PvP items do give advantages in PvE so a certain degree. For example, before the "fixing" of PvE epics/relics P8 weapons were extremely useful for most classes because they did a lot of damage, they just lacked + hit bonuses. These items could be used all the way up to Akylios and allowed you do to very respectable damage (I know because I used the P8 2H sword up until Akylios, only then replacing it with Kraken's Spine). Also, at least from a warrior perspective, there are some pieces such as the belt that are good stat pieces for PvE until you get an HK piece to replace it.

    So you are correct PvP items don't really do much for end-game PvE players, however those P8 items were far from useless in PvE 5 months ago. There is no "end-game" PvP right now that's different from beginning PvP, so you really can't compare end-game PvE item utilization to R40 PvP gear.

    Also, depending on your server, HK is being pugged and after 1.8 it will become pugged even more. So these HK items are no longer out of anyone's reach, you just need to take the time to do it, just as you took the time to get your R40 gear.


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  5. #20
    Plane Walker Carnefice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming View Post
    PvE specific items giving a significant PvP advantage over items obtainable doing PvP content is poor game design.

    1. I enjoy PvP specifically because it doesn't demand that I meet anyone's schedule.
    2. Maxing rank in PvP still requires a lot of time and dedication.
    3. Raid obtained items balanced for PvE DPS being used in PvP has a negating effect on those did spent the time to max out PvP but can't/chose not to raid.

    The counter of course is "yes but those who spent EVEN MORE TIME to get said raid items as well as maxing their PvP rank and gear deserve said advantage." To which I would reply that the PvP equivalents should be obtainable through PvP content rather than non-raiding players being given the choice between being pushed toward raiding or being at a PvP disadvantage. It's especially bad design given the tons of playtime PvP folks have already spent when, had they known it would be this way they would have possibly just flat out played a different game. It's a slap in the face.
    It's less about amount of time spent and more about where you spend your time. If you spend your time ONLY PvPing you're missing out on PvE items are that useful and vice versa. There is no end-game PvP in Rift, until that happens you either suck it up and do some PvE or keeping playing in WF's hoping for something to change.

    Again, this goes back to the server you're on because, at least on my server as well as others, HK is being pugged and bosses are dying, therefore you and others like yourself have the potential to get these items. If you're only excuse is "I don't want to PvE to be better at PvP," well then that's you're fault, not Trion's. If you just don't have the time to PvE well then my answer is "life's not fair sometimes, deal with it." Sorry.

    There will always be some PvE items that are better than PvP items, that is just a simple fact of playing an MMO that has both PvE content and PvP content. I doubt it will change, but anything is possible. Until then, you might want to try some PvE.
    Last edited by Carnefice; 03-13-2012 at 10:32 AM.


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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnefice View Post
    If you play both aspect of the game you can't lose. In my opinion, playing both aspects of the game should give you an advantage over someone who plays one aspect of the game, every single time.
    This is to simplistic a rule of thumb when you take the situation for exactly what it is though. Conceptually it's not a terribly bad notion.
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  7. #22
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    I still can't understand why people honestly think that pve gear should be better for pvp. Pve gear is piss easy to get, spend an hour or two a week beating on something scripted compared to pvp where to get lesser items for pvp you have to spend a month, everyday all day grinding.

    But hey, After taking my rogue through her first gsb (~1 hour) i came away with a relic that is going to be better than everything i could get through pvp until she hits rank 8, then all i have to do is go kill a boss or two in hk (another hour) for a trash drop and she'll be set again, same goes for when ID is released. I mean why bother grinding warfronts for days for something i can spend an hour on to get better.
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  8. #23
    Rift Chaser Ming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnefice View Post
    It's less about amount of time spent and more about where you spend your time. If you spend your time ONLY PvPing you're missing out on PvE items are that useful and vice versa. There is no end-game PvP in Rift, until that happens you either suck it up and do some PvE or keeping playing in WF's hoping for something to change.

    Again, this goes back to the server you're on because, at least on my server as well as others, HK is being pugged and bosses are dying, therefore you and others like yourself have the potential to get these items. If you're only excuse is "I don't want to PvE to be better at PvP," well then that's you're fault, not Trion's. If you just don't have the time to PvE well then my answer is "life's not fair sometimes, deal with it." Sorry.

    There will always be some PvE items that are better than PvP items, that is just a simple fact of playing an MMO that has both PvE content and PvP content. I doubt it will change, but anything is possible. Until then, you might want to try some PvE.
    The point is.. why should a player "HAVE" to do what they don't like to be the best at the part they like? If I eat nothing but cake I might not know much about eating bacon, but I certainly shouldn't HAVE to eat bacon to be a cakemaster. That's bad design.

    The obvious solution is just make the ultimate PvP items be earned FROM PvP and vice versa. This isn't rocket science.
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  9. #24
    Plane Walker Carnefice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robes View Post
    I still can't understand why people honestly think that pve gear should be better for pvp. Pve gear is piss easy to get after it's been nerfed into oblivion and most people over gear it.
    I fixed your post to what you should have said.

    PvE itself is not difficult if you're doing it casually long after it's been considered the hardest raid in the game to date.

    When people first started doing dungeons they were difficult. When DH and GP first came out they were difficult. When GSB and RoS first came out they were difficult. When HK and RotP first came out they were difficult (do you see the pattern?). PvE content is designed to be difficult when it first comes out, after it's been out for a certain amount of time Trion wants you to be able to get through it fairly quickly so that you can move on to the current hardest content in the game, which next will be Infernal Dawn.

    If you tried stepping into content when it first comes out you would have a different view, it may be scripted, but that doesn't mean it's easy to coordinate 20 people to do what needs to be done to down the boss. Occasionally these scripted mobs require certain specs and gear to defeat, just like PvP. You're not gonna go fight an MM/RS rogue in a bard spec are you?

    You can hate on PvE all you want and say it's easy, but it's only easy after it's no longer considered the hardest content in the game.
    Last edited by Carnefice; 03-13-2012 at 11:22 AM.


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  10. #25
    Plane Walker Carnefice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming View Post
    If I eat nothing but cake I might not know much about eating bacon, but I certainly shouldn't HAVE to eat bacon to be a cakemaster. That's bad design.
    What in the world are you talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ming View Post
    The obvious solution is just make the ultimate PvP items be earned FROM PvP and vice versa. This isn't rocket science.
    In order to make PvP items the best in PvP there is going to have to be a change to PvP items to make them outweigh the benefits of PvE items, which is not as easy as it may seem. There are a lot of factors that need to be taken into account, but in the game's current state you need to do both. If you were on the PTS when they upped the vengeance you'd see why they can't do that right now, people were blowing up way too fast. Trion has plans in store for PvP, might as well wait for them to make those changes and in the mean time do some PvE to make yourself better.
    Last edited by Carnefice; 03-13-2012 at 11:31 AM.


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  11. #26
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    My premade and guild get mentioned often as the top defiant pvp team in many of these goofy threads.

    We are zero progression in any raid, have zero pve gear, and well when they give these PvE'rs new gear that gives them like a <5% boost, who cares. We'll still dominate them. P40 clerics heals are so strong, that extra damage from pve gear just eats into what's already a massive overheating anyway, ie, changes will make little if any to no visible difference.

    You guys need to stop worrying about gear so much and l2p,l2promoteassistant,l2mark,l2vent,l2purge,l2cle anse,l2timeyourcc's, making all these problems mentioned obsolete.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menaace View Post
    My premade and guild get mentioned often as the top defiant pvp team in many of these goofy threads.

    We are zero progression in any raid, have zero pve gear, and well when they give these PvE'rs new gear that gives them like a <5% boost, who cares. We'll still dominate them. P40 clerics heals are so strong, that extra damage from pve gear just eats into what's already a massive overheating anyway, ie, changes will make little if any to no visible difference.

    You guys need to stop worrying about gear so much and l2p,l2promoteassistant,l2mark,l2vent,l2purge,l2cle anse,l2timeyourcc's, making all these problems mentioned obsolete.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    I resisted Dan's inferno yesterday and lived with ~150 HP because he has no focus
    Lol... You mean SHE has no focus

    And actually, with planar attunement tree two now, and planar protection, people are rocking 75+ elem resist easily with the bonus from lessers, It's a huge stat loss to rock that much focus, mages typically put on their +18 leg rune to cover the average pug's base resist, and live with that 2-3% resist on the pros so they can get 100 more SP heh. Make me a +50 focus rune for chest, however and I will change my mind in a heartbeat ;D
    Last edited by Menaace; 03-13-2012 at 02:06 PM.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menaace View Post
    Lol... You mean SHE has no focus

    And actually, with planar attunement tree two now, and planar protection, people are rocking 75+ elem resist easily with the bonus from lessers, It's a huge stat loss to rock that much focus, mages typically put on their +18 leg rune to cover the average pug's base resist, and live with that 2-3% resist on the pros so they can get 100 more SP heh. Make me a +50 focus rune for chest, however and I will change my mind in a heartbeat ;D
    But if you had a PvE staff you would get that focus passively! Oooh~~

    I mean yeah, it's not like you're disabled in PvP because you have no focus or hit, it just annoys me that hit is such an important stat for rogues and warriors, and there's no PvP method of obtaining it. The issue is lesser for mages, but you're right--with T2 PA, it's still there.

    You also have to take into account that, for the most part, the damage each class does is based on how much damage it does in PvE--PvE damage calculation is based on the class never missing. If you have no hit, and every rogue or warrior is packing 20-25% avoidance, you're going to be significantly below your target performance level simply because you don't PvE.

    Again, it's totally possible to circumvent, but it's also totally possible to fix. Make vengeance give a PvP accuracy equivalent or something.

    And I always feel obligated to tag this on the end of my posts: I've got HK weapons, I've got 4pc's, I'm not complaining about this because I want to perform better for myself and I feel like I can't--I went out and PvE'd, and will continue to, because it significantly improves my PvP game--I just think the whole concept is stupid.
    Last edited by Zaros; 03-13-2012 at 02:16 PM.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    But if you had a PvE staff you would get that focus passively! Oooh~~

    I mean yeah, it's not like you're disabled in PvP because you have no focus or hit, it just annoys me that hit is such an important stat for rogues and warriors, and there's no PvP method of obtaining it. The issue is lesser for mages, but you're right--with T2 PA, it's still there.

    You also have to take into account that, for the most part, the damage each class does is based on how much damage it does in PvE--PvE damage calculation is based on the class never missing. If you have no hit, and every rogue or warrior is packing 20-25% avoidance, you're going to be significantly below your target performance level simply because you don't PvE.

    Again, it's totally possible to circumvent, but it's also totally possible to fix. Make vengeance give a PvP accuracy equivalent or something.

    And I always feel obligated to tag this on the end of my posts: I've got HK weapons, I've got 4pc's, I'm not complaining about this because I want to perform better for myself and I feel like I can't--I went out and PvE'd, and will continue to, because it significantly improves my PvP game--I just think the whole concept is stupid.
    I agree with you good sir, rogues need their hit and I'll agree there.

    PvE staff... *cry* yes, I know, my mages epeen has a slight chub, but it's just never gonna happen for us in Rift lol. We tried once out of boredom, killed the first boss of GSB, never went back... so many "purists" around here.
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