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Thread: Twinks are ruining the fun of leveling through pvp.

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Twinks are ruining the fun of leveling through pvp.

    Hi,

    Kudos for making a game where leveling through pvp is relatively fast, however i cba leveling when its not fun and getting completely run over by maxed out twinks with locked exp kinda ruins that fun....

    so please, if people wanna twink, let them pvp against other twinks (like they did in wow).

  2. #2
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    I'm curious: what'd they do in wow?
    ~Quiescent

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    Ascendant Hotter's Avatar
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    Imo they should just leave twinks alone for now. They increase the warfront populations and give people something to strive for.
    Last edited by Hotter; 03-11-2012 at 07:06 AM. Reason: soften the edges

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    I'm curious: what'd they do in wow?
    WoW was a little bit different. For the longest time, twinking in battlegrounds was possible not because you could lock xp but because you didn't earn xp in battlegrounds at all. Then Blizzard decided that they wanted to add xp to battlegrounds, not to get rid of twinking but just to accelerate the leveling curve as the game grew and more levels were added. The twink community expressed their vast disapproval, because xp in battlegrounds would obviously mean they would have a limited amount of time to play in those battlegrounds before the earned xp would force them into the next bracket where their gear wouldn't be nearly so effecitve.

    So Blizzard added the option to lock xp, but it came with the restriction that if your xp was locked in warfronts you went into one queue (the twink queue) and if your xp wasn't locked you went into the "normal" queue. After a while when the "huge" twink population that swore up and down that they only geared up for the challenge of competing against other twinks got sick of endless queues, most of them gave up. It was one of those mirthful cases where you get a bunch of people on forums paying lipservice to altruistic intentions until the devs forced their hands and then the truth came out.

    Twinking in WoW is not really comparable to gearing a character for leveling brackets in Rift. Not only did it take way, way longer and cost much more in WoW, the power difference was also enormous. I remember going up against twinks in WoW that had 5 times the HP of a "normal" player, with damage that scaled to match.

  5. #5
    Champion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotter View Post
    ...and give people something to strive for.
    Yes a GW2 beta invite.

    The idea that a new player leveling up their toon should be "striving" to match some lvl 19 twink, is beyond moronic, doubly so in a fast levelling game like Rift.

    As for queues, the phrase "quality over quantity" springs to mind.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotter View Post
    Imo they should just leave twinks alone for now. They increase the warfront populations and give people something to strive for.
    What, so they could get facerolled by twinks at x0-x9 range and go to the next to see the same happen? There is nothing to strive for when we're fighting against twinks because we're leveling our character and they're not. New players are having a trashy experience because of the Twinks Feel Good Inc.

    Yeah and don't give me that they're going to have to expect that in 50 excuse. Just because level 50 is bad for PvP doesn't mean you have to bring that experience to every single bracket.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    I'll point you to this post by Elrar...

    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ml#post3657031

    In summary
    • Trion is aware of twinking.
    • They are keeping an eye on the twink situation.
    • They have already make some adjustments and, if they fell it's justified, they will make more.
    • They're biggest concern with twinking is how to deal with it and maintain low queue times for low level WF's. (So no, they won't be eliminating twinking, nor will they shunt them off to their own queue, at least not in the short term.)

  8. #8
    Soulwalker Happyface's Avatar
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    I wonder if people realize the same gear that twinks have they can get. It isn't like you need PVP rank, a 10/20 raid or something to get this gear. Do some LFGs, find a crafter .... if you're serious about leveling up through PVP - why would you half-butt it and expect to get the same results as the people who tried?

    It isn't like great awesome twink gear drops off a mob in some shot off island with a .000005 respawn chance when Allion posts something on the rogue forums.
    I rock pink hair, and pink hair accessories.

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  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meina View Post
    I'll point you to this post by Elrar...

    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ml#post3657031

    In summary
    • Trion is aware of twinking.
    • They are keeping an eye on the twink situation.
    • They have already make some adjustments and, if they fell it's justified, they will make more.
    • They're biggest concern with twinking is how to deal with it and maintain low queue times for low level WF's. (So no, they won't be eliminating twinking, nor will they shunt them off to their own queue, at least not in the short term.)
    Yeah, that's a little too late for that. They weren't aware of twinking when they decided to introduce the XP lock? And how long is it going to take for them to make this so called 'adjustment', probably forever. The queues times wont be affected by much on regular WFs because there isn't a lot of twinks who play WFs, majority the players are non-twinks who are leveling. I mean if people are twinking for being competitive, it has to be worth the long wait when/if the queues get separated.

    If Trion is really dedicated to fixing this problem, they'll give a separate queue and make smaller maps with 3v3, 4v4, 5v5, etc. for twinks in order make their queue times shorter. If they want to save time, just enable XP gain in PvP or leave it as it is and see a lot of people cancel their subscription for new games that are being released in the next couple of months.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyface View Post
    I wonder if people realize the same gear that twinks have they can get. It isn't like you need PVP rank, a 10/20 raid or something to get this gear. Do some LFGs, find a crafter .... if you're serious about leveling up through PVP - why would you half-butt it and expect to get the same results as the people who tried?

    It isn't like great awesome twink gear drops off a mob in some shot off island with a .000005 respawn chance when Allion posts something on the rogue forums.
    It's not some dungeons, but many dungeons and most will probably level to the next bracket by the time they need the gears they need for compete in the current x0-x9 bracket. And don't forget the temporary buff pots/enchants they have to grind, especially in the 40-49 bracket.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baccano View Post
    Yeah, that's a little too late for that. They weren't aware of twinking when they decided to introduce the XP lock?
    I believe Trion knew full well the can of worms they were opening when they introduced the ability to lock XP. And yet they did it anyway. Kinda says something, doesn't it?
    And how long is it going to take for them to make this so called 'adjustment', probably forever.
    However long it takes. I'd rather they make small, informed adjustments than panic and knee jerk themselves into a complete mess.

    The queues times wont be affected by much on regular WFs because there isn't a lot of twinks who play WFs, majority the players are non-twinks who are leveling.
    I think I'll go with Trion on this one. They have the numbers and they should have an informed opinion on what would happen when they make changes.

    All I have is anecdotal information, and that is that queue times before they added the XP off option were a lot longer in low level WF's.
    I mean if people are twinking for being competitive, it has to be worth the long wait when/if the queues get separated.
    This would depend on just how long those longer wait times are.

    If Trion is really dedicated to fixing this problem, they'll give a separate queue and make smaller maps with 3v3, 4v4, 5v5, etc. for twinks in order make their queue times shorter.
    While I appreciate that you're willing to come up with ideas to help twinks, I think Trion won't take the idea seriously. Trion committing that much development time to such a small, niche game style is unlikely to happen.
    If they want to save time, just enable XP gain in PvP or leave it as it is and see a lot of people cancel their subscription for new games that are being released in the next couple of months.
    Either choice is likely to lose subscriptions.

    Twinking is a way to keep bored players interested in the game. It gives them something to do outside of the end game grind. Removing that interest could result in people who might stick around because of twinking to start looking for other games to play.

    Allowing twinking, on the other hand, might alienate a portion of the population and cause them to look for another game to play because they feel that low level PvP is too difficult or frustrating.

    The trick is, which option has the most benefit for Trion. Again, I think Trion is in a better position to make that call than we are. They have the numbers and they'll do what they feel is in the best interest of the player base, which in turn would be in the best interest for themselves.

    Personally, I think Trion is on the right track. Provide an outlet for bored players while, through keeping an eye on the situation and making the appropriate changes as needed, reducing the frustration that twinks can create in low level WF's.

  12. #12
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyface View Post
    I wonder if people realize the same gear that twinks have they can get. It isn't like you need PVP rank, a 10/20 raid or something to get this gear. Do some LFGs, find a crafter .... if you're serious about leveling up through PVP - why would you half-butt it and expect to get the same results as the people who tried?

    It isn't like great awesome twink gear drops off a mob in some shot off island with a .000005 respawn chance when Allion posts something on the rogue forums.
    IMO that's the biggest part of the problem. People either don't realize they can do it, or don't think it's worth the time. It's fine that with some work you can become much more effective, and people who put in the effort to get good gear, get the benefits. People who run around with no/poor gear perform badly as a consequence.

    But the reality is most/many people don't get the gear, so warfront balance is hugely skewed. Is it worth spending all your planarite in the 20s tier if you're going to be in the 30s soon? Possibly not. And the gear you get from normal play is far, far behind.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meina View Post
    I'll point you to this post by Elrar...

    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ml#post3657031

    In summary
    • Trion is aware of twinking.
    • They are keeping an eye on the twink situation.
    • They have already make some adjustments and, if they fell it's justified, they will make more.
    • They're biggest concern with twinking is how to deal with it and maintain low queue times for low level WF's. (So no, they won't be eliminating twinking, nor will they shunt them off to their own queue, at least not in the short term.)

    This is all good and fine, but I am also a new player to this game and I like to keep a PvP q going while I quest, and also find it frustrating. I'm not going to go off and rage, but I only enjoy PvP, in Rift I also enjoying closing Rifts and stopping invasions, but I can't see myself paying 15 a month to close Rifts. Trion is great for PvE, not PvP.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulf9 View Post
    IMO that's the biggest part of the problem. People either don't realize they can do it, or don't think it's worth the time. It's fine that with some work you can become much more effective, and people who put in the effort to get good gear, get the benefits. People who run around with no/poor gear perform badly as a consequence.

    But the reality is most/many people don't get the gear, so warfront balance is hugely skewed. Is it worth spending all your planarite in the 20s tier if you're going to be in the 30s soon? Possibly not. And the gear you get from normal play is far, far behind.
    I'll throw this out there, if I want to twink, I'll do it. But I would rather PvP competitively at max then killing new players in low brackets and the lvlers in every other bracket.
    I can whine and say I am not going to go out of my way to run dungeons, etc to farm up the gear to twink each bracket, the point of this is that for someone who wants to lvl in PvP, is going to get frustrated and have no fun. They deserve to have fun how they want, killing undergeared, fine, but I am also entitled to have fun and enjoyable experience

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple
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    Seven codex games in 2x bracket tonight. In six of them, we were streamrollered and unable to escape from our graveyard. In one game, the other team's star twink was a mercenary on our team. Guess what -- we steamrollered their team and trapped them in the graveyard. This particular twink killed an opposing player every three seconds, regular as clockwork.

    There's no game there. No point in playing. Quests and mobs (which are about as interesting as knitting) are still more interesting than that.
    A bit of really easy-to-get gear makes 10-49 Warfronts much better.

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