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Thread: We Don't Need Hints About the Future of PvP

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default We Don't Need Hints About the Future of PvP

    In it's effort to not be a clone of WoW PvP, Trion has forgotten the most important element that keep players from quitting PvP...continuing incentives. I rarely see players in WFs that I saw three, six, or nine months ago. Why? They have no goals, not rewards to work towards. I haven't played WoW in years, but when I did they had PvP "seasons" where new gear with slight stat increases were offered. This was enough to keep the PvP community around playing. I think Trion's PvP play is superior to WoW and they should just do some vertical diversification as opposed to the horizontal diversification hinted at...in other words, build on what they already have.

    Some simple changes could keep players around in PvP for months, if not years. Every 4-6 months they should extend the notoriety in each WF. Starting with glorified and moving to sanctified, ludicrous rep, or whatever name they want to use. As a reward for reaching these levels of notoriety the PvP vendors could offer better runes (gold, platinum, or diamond for example) and better PvP based lesser planars. Also once a player get glorified in all WFs a new synergy crystal with better stats could be made available. Four months or so after raising to glorified they could raise the notoriety to the next level with similar increases in rewards.

    A simple fix because it builds on exisiting WFs. The addition of new WF would fit fine with this scenario because it would just mean people would PvP more to get rep in another WF.

    I realize this flies in the face of those that think PvP should not be gear based, but GW2 is for those casual players. GW2 is free to play because what you see on day one will be pretty much what you see on the last day of GW2...boring to me, but perhaps great for casual players. Casual players are not what MMO PvP is all about. However, if you like Rift PvP and are a casual, then I suggest twinking out and playing level 49 PvP.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    We view it the same but call it different. I accept and admit Rift has a pvp progression curve where time spent will indefinitely benefit you (as if it doesn't in ANY game, it's just more concrete in Rift). But I do think it's a very casual game with that in place. I came from Eq2 raiding 25+ hours a week, 5 days a week, just to *maybe* get all the gear I wanted before the expansion pack was over over the course of 9 - 12 months. I usually didn't get all the gear I wanted until 8 months+ into an expansion, just by nature of the game. So yeah, now that I play Rift and when I realized I could pvp *solo* and get all the gear I basically wanted in 2 - 3 months. I think this game is very casual. The only way to get a more casual out-of-the-box, your good to go style game, is FPS. But if there is no progression or significant gear path in an MMO Id have no idea what I am spending my time doing. I would have to love the game. But I wouldn't love an MMO with no gear progression because then I want to rely on precision and aim. MMO's don't use those skills.

    To end this rant short, I'd love the game to go in the direction of time spent = toon benefits over ones without time spent. I played the Quake 2/3 at high level for almost a decade. I know where to go if I want a skill based arena, out of the box I can kill you, game. I play Rift cause I want a different game than that. All for adding more perks and things to 'grind' out as people say. I call it playing the game . I still think the game will fall in the casual window because it still only takes 1 - 4 months, based on playtime, to get big with big dogs in gear level.
    Last edited by Violacea; 03-10-2012 at 10:44 AM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
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  3. #3
    Plane Walker Matsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegimatic View Post
    In it's effort to not be a clone of WoW PvP, Trion has forgotten the most important element that keep players from quitting PvP...continuing incentives. I rarely see players in WFs that I saw three, six, or nine months ago. Why? They have no goals, not rewards to work towards. I haven't played WoW in years, but when I did they had PvP "seasons" where new gear with slight stat increases were offered. This was enough to keep the PvP community around playing. I think Trion's PvP play is superior to WoW and they should just do some vertical diversification as opposed to the horizontal diversification hinted at...in other words, build on what they already have.

    Some simple changes could keep players around in PvP for months, if not years. Every 4-6 months they should extend the notoriety in each WF. Starting with glorified and moving to sanctified, ludicrous rep, or whatever name they want to use. As a reward for reaching these levels of notoriety the PvP vendors could offer better runes (gold, platinum, or diamond for example) and better PvP based lesser planars. Also once a player get glorified in all WFs a new synergy crystal with better stats could be made available. Four months or so after raising to glorified they could raise the notoriety to the next level with similar increases in rewards.

    A simple fix because it builds on exisiting WFs. The addition of new WF would fit fine with this scenario because it would just mean people would PvP more to get rep in another WF.

    I realize this flies in the face of those that think PvP should not be gear based, but GW2 is for those casual players. GW2 is free to play because what you see on day one will be pretty much what you see on the last day of GW2...boring to me, but perhaps great for casual players. Casual players are not what MMO PvP is all about. However, if you like Rift PvP and are a casual, then I suggest twinking out and playing level 49 PvP.
    Good news! Trion already does exactly what you're asking for. PvP gear progression is tied to PvE raid tier release. Just like the Arena seasons correspond with a new raid tier in WoW.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Not Quite Enough

    I know what you're saying, Matsu, but the rewards come too slow and too seldom when they are tied to major patches happening a few times a year. If the rewards were more readily attainable we would have more than 3 NA PvP shards left.

  5. #5
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
    Good news! Trion already does exactly what you're asking for. PvP gear progression is tied to PvE raid tier release. Just like the Arena seasons correspond with a new raid tier in WoW.

    Great so in order to get better PvP gear we must PVE?????




    FAILLLLLLLLLLLLLL.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegimatic View Post
    I know what you're saying, Matsu, but the rewards come too slow and too seldom when they are tied to major patches happening a few times a year. If the rewards were more readily attainable we would have more than 3 NA PvP shards left.
    WoW's PvP season changes every 4 to 6 months. Since Rift was released we've had at least one tier increase in PvP gear and one more is very close on the horizon. Seeing as the game has only been out for a year, we're pretty much right on schedule.

    They've also added one new WF within that time along with the associated rep grind for that WF, as well as a couple modified WF scenarios.

    It's not that they're too slow with adding more incentives. They're pretty much on track, or even slightly ahead of the curve. There is something else at work here.

    I think part of the problem is not so much the lack of rewards as it is the act of PvP'ing itself is not as rewarding as it should be. If PvP'ing is fun, exciting and engaging, the need for rewards becomes secondary. If it's not fun and engaging, then the rewards become the primary concern.

    Let's face it, end game PvP is not in the best shape. The content is pretty limited. You can only run the same WF's for so long before they get tedious. There should be other types of PvP content available so players can mix things up.

    You spend half your time either getting farmed (when you're at the low end of the gear curve) or doing the farming (when you've hit the high end of the gear curve). Neither of these activities are not what most would consider 'engaging' PvP. They took the right steps when they tried to install matched WF's. The problem is that it doesn't work most of the time. If they could get that to work a bit more effectively than we'd have a much higher quality of PvP available to us.

    Basically, it's not just a lack of rewards that's messing us up, it's that end game PvP has become stale and boring for a lot of people.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowboxerz View Post
    Great so in order to get better PvP gear we must PVE?????




    FAILLLLLLLLLLLLLL.
    That's not what he said.

    When the new tier of PvE gear comes out, they will release a new tier of PvP gear of the same relative power level. This way they maintain an even keel between both PvP and PvE gear so that one does not become more powerful.

    They do this so you won't have to farm PvE gear for PvP, and vice versa.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegimatic View Post
    Casual players are not what MMO PvP is all about.
    Part of why you never see the same people in wf's. Why bother putting any time in a system that only caters to the people with the largest timesink? Why continue pvping if you have no reward to work for? (Hint: The reward should not be being able to faceroll new players!)

    Trying to cater to both makes both casuals and hardcores miserable and uninterested if not implemented right.


  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meina View Post
    Basically, it's not just a lack of rewards that's messing us up, it's that end game PvP has become stale and boring for a lot of people.
    This. The forum whiners would have everyone believe that the R8's are rolling low-levels in WF's. Most R8's stop PvPing, because they've run those WF's hundreds of times now and are bored sick by them.

  10. #10
    Shadowlander
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    Default can they just nerf some of these ******ed overpowered souls

    my title says it all:
    if there was any sort of balance in pvp i think the 45 people i knew back in september would probably still be playing:
    Last edited by Matnose; 03-11-2012 at 11:43 PM.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker
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    I wonder how big the gap will be for players starting pvp and veterans (in a sense.) We currently have matched warfronts with the occasional person leaked into the other, so not that big a deal. If anything there might be rank 50 where only rank 40-50 get to play in if progression is..well...progressing.

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meina View Post
    WoW's PvP season changes every 4 to 6 months. Since Rift was released we've had at least one tier increase in PvP gear and one more is very close on the horizon. Seeing as the game has only been out for a year, we're pretty much right on schedule.

    They've also added one new WF within that time along with the associated rep grind for that WF, as well as a couple modified WF scenarios.

    It's not that they're too slow with adding more incentives. They're pretty much on track, or even slightly ahead of the curve. There is something else at work here.

    I think part of the problem is not so much the lack of rewards as it is the act of PvP'ing itself is not as rewarding as it should be. If PvP'ing is fun, exciting and engaging, the need for rewards becomes secondary. If it's not fun and engaging, then the rewards become the primary concern.

    Let's face it, end game PvP is not in the best shape. The content is pretty limited. You can only run the same WF's for so long before they get tedious. There should be other types of PvP content available so players can mix things up.

    You spend half your time either getting farmed (when you're at the low end of the gear curve) or doing the farming (when you've hit the high end of the gear curve). Neither of these activities are not what most would consider 'engaging' PvP. They took the right steps when they tried to install matched WF's. The problem is that it doesn't work most of the time. If they could get that to work a bit more effectively than we'd have a much higher quality of PvP available to us.

    Basically, it's not just a lack of rewards that's messing us up, it's that end game PvP has become stale and boring for a lot of people.
    I think its a problem with the stagnant junk gaming industry. There was a day when game developers tried new things nad tried to make games unique. These days the big game dev's only care about money and are too scared to try anything new in case it fail or not fit the formula. if only they knew that hammering out the same old stuff every game is a fail anyway. I know for myself and all the mmo's ive played, and most of you too, probably have more gaming ideas in our little finger than most dev's do. Alot of open world pvp already exists as assets and code they jsut need a simple quest and a reward to get the fight going. Like for example, a quest that goes something like this, "kill X of players in "this keep" in stillmore". "Take control of the throne room and hold it for 10 minutes", etc, for jsut a really basic idea i pulled out of thin air [EDIT]. Come on gaming companies, it isnt hard!

    WOW had really excellent open world pvp areas in BC but there were no decent rewards so nobody did them.
    Last edited by TheSavvy1; 03-13-2012 at 12:35 PM. Reason: inappropriate language

  13. #13
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrag00 View Post
    I think its a problem with the stagnant junk gaming industry. There was a day when game developers tried new things nad tried to make games unique. These days the big game dev's only care about money and are too scared to try anything new in case it fail or not fit the formula. if only they knew that hammering out the same old stuff every game is a fail anyway. I know for myself and all the mmo's ive played, and most of you too, probably have more gaming ideas in our little finger than most dev's do. Alot of open world pvp already exists as assets and code they jsut need a simple quest and a reward to get the fight going. Like for example, a quest that goes something like this, "kill X of players in "this keep" in stillmore". "Take control of the throne room and hold it for 10 minutes", etc, for jsut a really basic idea i pulled out of thin air [EDIT]. Come on gaming companies, it isnt hard!
    To be fair, Trion on did try some out of the box thinking in the form of Wardstones and PvP Rifts. Not exactly ground breaking stuff, but at least it was semi creative and it fit the motif of the game.

    The only problem is that people didn't bother or the only bothered long enough to get the associated carrot.

    WOW had really excellent open world pvp areas in BC but there were no decent rewards so nobody did them.
    And here's the rub.

    People scream and cry about how they live for World PvP, they gotta gotta has their WPvP, but if there is no carrot involved they can't be bothered. A bit of a contradiction, don't you think?

  14. #14
    General of Telara
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    Read OP with interest. What a different philosophy from mine. I played PvP EQ2, Conan, Warhammer-alot, and now here. It was hardly ever about the gear I would get. Doing the same raids over and over is obviously about gear, but PvP?? PvP is about beating the crap out of other players, teams agains teams, world wide PvP--its about the game not the gear. The number one complaint in any PvP game I have played is when it becomes about the gear and not the game--when one players so obviously dominates another because of gear or rank that the game, the fun, is ruined.

    I guess one philosophy is status oriented.
    The other is adventure oriented.

  15. #15
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meina View Post
    To be fair, Trion on did try some out of the box thinking in the form of Wardstones and PvP Rifts. Not exactly ground breaking stuff, but at least it was semi creative and it fit the motif of the game.

    The only problem is that people didn't bother or the only bothered long enough to get the associated carrot.



    And here's the rub.

    People scream and cry about how they live for World PvP, they gotta gotta has their WPvP, but if there is no carrot involved they can't be bothered. A bit of a contradiction, don't you think?
    Rewards for open world PVP is VERY simple.

    Dead players grave has their inventory on it and is lootable. That is PLENTY of reason for me to go out an seek PvP.

    PvPer's need a way to make plat in this game as well, not everyone likes to farm mobs or craft. Solution is we get the dead players inventory dropped and all plat/gold. Not talking about equipped items, just inventory.

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