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Thread: So...PvE stuff is better for PvP than PvP stuff

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser
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    Default So...PvE stuff is better for PvP than PvP stuff

    Just played a couple games with another healer in the group who was decked out with the artifact mace (725 SP I think), and a few PvE pieces mixed with PvP stuff.

    I'm in all PvP gear.

    Not only was he able to out-heal me (by a surprising amount), he also has way more survivability. At first I wasn't sure what was going on because I do tend to draw the most dmg/cc/silences, but it's more than that: his extra spell power from PvE is more effective at mitigating/healing through damage than my extra Valor/armor is from my PvP gear.

    It wasn't always like this...I used to see people come in WFs with artifacts and I'd still be able to outperform them by playing well. The PvE gear might have been better stats-wise, but there weren't such huge differences that couldn't be overcome by playing well.

    This isn't right. That healer should outperform me in PvE and I should be more effective in PvP. After all, that's why there were so many changes and why so much PvP stuff was nerfed in the first place, because the PvE side was indignant that a handful of PvP items were arguably better.

    I've already had a hard time staying interested in this game the past few months and it's this kind of thing that's discouraging, because there's really nothing I can do about it until Trion takes balance seriously or we get new PvP stuff at some point in the future. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    It's even worse for Rogues and Warriors.
    If you want to be even remotely effective in PvP you'll need at least 100 hit, which requires PvE gear.

    Keep in mind I'm both R40 and 11/11 with PvE gear, I'm not crying because I want the gear.
    I just think it's really stupid.
    ~Quiescent

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    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    It's even worse for Rogues and Warriors.
    If you want to be even remotely effective in PvP you'll need at least 100 hit, which requires PvE gear.

    Keep in mind I'm both R40 and 11/11 with PvE gear, I'm not crying because I want the gear.
    I just think it's really stupid.
    Agreed, though I'm only R37 and 5/11...I'm busy with college
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    Plane Touched Sagiso's Avatar
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    I only have 76 hit in full rank 8 pvp gear. Thus I mostly bard :9
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    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    what rank are you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    what rank are you?
    I'm in full R8 gear, I have both weapons, all the planars, and 130k lifetime kills. The funny thing is I'm not max rank now, I'm 39/40 since I came back from a break from the game. It seems to go quick though, so I'm sure I'll make up the 30k prestige to R40 soon.

    The only difference for me, as far as I can tell, is that I can't buy the slightly-better synergy crystal until 40.

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    And just to clarify, I'm not complaining and saying "OMG this cleric heals more than me."

    My biggest problem is that a Cleric in a PvE/PvP mix of gear can survive longer than I can with all the best PvP gear on, because the gulf in SP is so huge that his heals give him more survivability than my Valor.

    That's what's broken. I also feel for all the PvP DPS who are nerfed because there's no hit on PvP gear. That's just stupid.

  8. #8
    Ascendant lol r u mad's Avatar
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    And some pvp gear is bis for pve, like the rank 8 Mage pants. I don't have a problem with any of this.

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    Yes, but no one is going into a raid in PvP gear and dominating the DPS or healing charts, or out-tanking the dedicated PvP tanks.

    The opposite is true. And I don't care so much about numbers as I care that my PvP gear should keep me alive better than someone else's PvE gear keeps them alive.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetSeoul View Post
    Yes, but no one is going into a raid in PvP gear and dominating the DPS or healing charts, or out-tanking the dedicated PvP tanks.

    The opposite is true. And I don't care so much about numbers as I care that my PvP gear should keep me alive better than someone else's PvE gear keeps them alive.
    If you try to make comparisons about PvE gear's effectiveness in PvP and vice versa, you'll just end up incurring BS arguments from blind PvErs.

    You should just try to isolate the effectiveness of both in each different aspect. P8 pants are bis? Drop some SP for vengeance.
    ~Quiescent

  11. #11
    Champion of Telara
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    Yeah, not really.

    As someone that stopped PvP grind early on and just re-started now at 1.7, i can tell you that i would take full PvP gear anytime of the day.

    Certainly running with full HK gear, relics bla bla bla, 51 Valor. (1 from PA to get Cleanse Soul ;D)

    If something touches me, i die, hell even if a necro dots me up I WILL DIE and dots are so bad in PvP and you know it.

    If two warriors are around, i die the exact moment Sweeping Strikes meet one after the other..

    Yes i deal some damage, but most damage comes from the 4 piece bonus and the EM's,

    Running some PvE gear does make you hit harder, but 800 valor versus 1400 valor is a big difference, if you think its not is because you aint focusing people enough.

    And lets not talk about Vengenace, the problem comes with the crystals, and thats Champion's Crystal thats getting changed (finally!) and then you will see QQ from Warriors until they adapt, and then full valor Warriors destroying everything with a Warden ;D

    Most of the problem comes from "Champion crystal + Warrior half DPS/Tank specs", those are a real pain in the *** and really hurt.

    TLDR: Full PvP gear and half pvp-half pve have a big difference, people just dont realize it cause they are too busy doing other stuff ;D

    Try killing a full valor RB/Champ/Pala spec, against the one wearing 4 hk pieces for his Sweeping Strike, the 20% difference shows, easily.
    Last edited by potis; 03-09-2012 at 04:04 PM.
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  12. #12
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    @above the trick is to not wear ALL PvE gear


    I wear the relic gloves and belt, venomous boneshank and dwarven-forged quickblade + ranger crystal 2pc

    1.1k valor, 9.4k HP. More than most specs in full PvP gear, plus the mitigation from RS makes me practically invincible while dealing more damage than anything else in PvP gear bar a 51 pyro.
    Last edited by Zaros; 03-09-2012 at 04:13 PM.
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    There imo is nothing wrong with pve gear having slightly higher stats than pvp gear. PvP gear has significantly higher durability for your player. As someone who can hit 1450 valor, normally runs with 1160 - 1100, and has tried going lower, I think dropping pieces of armor does begin to get significant. Also because you get hit harder on top of losing HP. It's a compound effect of dying faster. Nothing wrong with pve gear giving higher raw stats. PvP gear is pretty good for the stats it gives and I think that is good, because pvp gear does not give you any extraordinary edge in pve. As some say in few cases I guess you can drop pvp gear for slightly better stats than pve gear with certain setups.

    Stat gain/dmg output/survivability, that is all fine. It's not the same discussion when hit and focus are involved. That is where the pve gear is crucially and awkwardly better. Awkwardly better as in, ohhhh if I use pve gear on my rogue it goes from taking 12gcds to 5gcds to get my finisher off on a warrior/rogue. Pure pvp gear against some spec clerics will result in pretty much lucky if you get 3 finishers off in 30 - 40 worth of time without any hit. It is not even close to talk about slight dps/stat boosts for survivability trade offs, then to lump that same logic into saying, well, you should also pve to get hit. That's where the goofy problem is with pve gear. It's dmg output being higher than pve gear is fine. But thats not just what it does, it makes you either viable or non-viable as a melee player.
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  14. #14
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    I'd prob take full PvP gear over full PvE gear too but that's not what people are talking about here. They're talking about players that PvP with their PvE weapons, PvE source cores, and/or PvE synergy crystals because they're doing considerably more damage and/or healing than they would using full PvP gear.
    Last edited by rennlc; 03-09-2012 at 04:14 PM.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    I actually do use full time 5x 100inscribed/1x50inscribed essence set. PvP essences need serious loving or better yet, new ones.

    I do have 2 sets. I use my pvp essences when I use my RS spec for various stuff. But C'mon, for say a commonly DPS rogue...does this look like a good idea? (wearing my pvp set?) Look's like an awesome exchange!

    http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...kotax/joke.jpg

    ps. sorry, dont know why the bottom is so blurry. that's a -80.
    Last edited by Violacea; 03-09-2012 at 04:19 PM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

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