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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Idea for *twinks*

  1. #1
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    Default Idea for *twinks*

    I have seen, first hand, how many *non* twinks it takes to take down 1 twink, meanwhile, the whole other *twink* team steamrolls the opposing side. I have made my stance on twinking clear, but ...without removing the XP lock, I have come up with an idea that would...benefit all, albeit not greatly

    Limit the time you canLock Xp to 1 hour with a 20 hour cooldown. This won't stop twinks from twinking, and it won't stop twinks from steamrolling their level range, but it *will* perhaps limit how long they can distress those who do not (or cannot) elevate to the same level. And even if they can, it limits how long they can.

    It doesn't stop it, and yes, 1 hour is a long time for those running WF's and not long enough for the twink wanted to faceroll kill everyone they can, but it will limit the damage.

    I figured I toss it out there as a suggestion.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Yeaaaaahh..No
    ~Quiescent

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    Telaran djluxi's Avatar
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    Idk, i m by no means pro twink but i dont see this working. U either have them or u dont. This is not gonna eliminate twinks so ppl r still gonna rage about them but on the other hand u ll now have all the twinks qq-ing about the downtime etc.

    The reality in rift now is that twinks r here, u can either adapt to it or go on a crusade against them, but i can assure that only a drastic drop in subcribtions is gonna change that if at all. XP lock was introduced only to keep old subscribers from quitting, it will get removed only if Trion thinks the number of players quitting due to twinks is greater then the number of players staying because of them. The best sollution for Trion, and one that would actually stand a chance of beeing implemented would of course be one that appeals to both, i dont see that in yours.

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    Since this is WF/PvP thread:

    Twinks should be de-bolstered down the the non-twinked level of the players in the WF.

    Or, the 'real' leveled players should be Bolstered towards the Twinks level.

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple Hyacinth's Avatar
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    I actually don't mind twinks; either you want to become one, or you can just level past them to 50 and not have to deal with them anymore. The twinks trade some cool stuff that comes from being level-capped in order to be better at lower-level warfronts, and to me, that seems fair enough. Even if I were against twinks, however, I don't like this particular suggestion, for the reason that it doesn't only affect twinks in warfronts.

    Some people turn off XP gain so that they can remain level-appropriate to a particular area and enjoy a zone longer, at a certain difficulty, if they feel that they are leveling too quickly. Other people turn off XP gain for a while so that they can continue to enjoy playing in dungeons or warfronts, not to be twinks, but to wait until a friend catches up to them in levels. To limit turning off XP gain to only one hour ever twenty hours would effectively limit all of these non-twink players from doing anything worthwhile in the game for more than about one hour every day.

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    Ascendant ShalarLight's Avatar
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    Twinks really are not a major problem, as characters below x5 for a bracket are generally going to get slaughtered anyways in warfronts.
    The only thing I honestly have a problem with are the people claiming that everyone new to the game can get the most out of their game play by being slaughtered by people with much much better gear, like they are honestly doing someone a favor. It is just a pretty perverted point of view in my opinion.
    Especially since the 1-20 bracket at level 50 is actually usually pretty fair games, with everyone having crap gear. Of course a few people still run around with HK weapons etc, but by and large the games are made up of a bunch of people with crap gear, and are pretty similar to the games people came to expect in sub-50 pvp.

    I just find it funny that people are avoiding this fairly balanced bracket in favor of beating up non-twink players to grind currency to gain an edge in this bracket as well. All the while trying to show how awsome they are at this game. Some people just need every advantage they can get i suppose. Where as I would think skill is shown by not having the advantage and still eeking out good performances. (think Dissb's videos in p4 gear etc)
    Last edited by ShalarLight; 03-09-2012 at 08:27 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    FYI Riftstalker running isn't even pve. .... You might as well call riftstalker running PVE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post

    Some people turn off XP gain so that they can remain level-appropriate to a particular area and enjoy a zone longer, at a certain difficulty, if they feel that they are leveling too quickly.
    I want to address this statement first. The absolutely ONLY way you can "outlevel' an area is if you are PVE'ing, and PvP'ing simutaneously. In no way, in my playthrough, did I ever outlevel content in any zone, until I began to mix PvP into the equation, and that was before XP lock, so there was no twinking really going on. I would join a warfront, and sometimes, Guardians had the superior team, and sometimes, the defiants did. and all too rarely, were the games so neck and neck that my eyes were equally glued to the scoreboard, holding my breath rto see who would eek out the win. In either case, there was /yells GOOD GAME being utter by both sides who enjoyed the match.

    When its unbalanced, its fun for the side whose winning to dominate, but for the losing side, it crushing and demoralizing. You don't want to have anything to do with it. An dusually, advantages are given to whatever side is 'twinking' the hardest. It takes almost 6 people to take down 1 twink, because their HPs and AC are through the roof. And during that time, one level 10 from tehir side, can take you down and the twink skips away scott free.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    Other people turn off XP gain for a while so that they can continue to enjoy playing in dungeons or warfronts, not to be twinks, but to wait until a friend catches up to them in levels. To limit turning off XP gain to only one hour ever twenty hours would effectively limit all of these non-twink players from doing anything worthwhile in the game for more than about one hour every day.
    Yes, and no.

    I put such a limitation on this, because id someone truly wanted to twink out that badly, and this was their idea of fun...whats to stop them from doing this with 4+ toons? Of server hopping and doing this repeatedly??

    And as for making a character to level with a friend...I do that as well. I have one toon that I exclusively run with a friend, and another that I run with for my own enjoyment, without limits impossed by keeping in level with another person. I used XP only when I was level 49 so that we would roll over to level 50 together, and that was it. Otherwise, we stayed fairly even on XP.

    Again, I have made my stance on twinking fairly well known. I know its going to happen, and I know people will always look to have the advantage in any PvP match. I figured that, this way, the level of distress that non-twinks experience was limited, but didn't completely stop twinks from twinking and steamrolling the warfronts, but limited, or maybe encouraged them to progress rather than be bottlenecked.

    Yes, I said bottlenecked, since that is exactly what twinks do to non-twinks.

    In this, I do see a balance for both sides.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Hyacinth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tevikolady View Post
    I want to address this statement first. The absolutely ONLY way you can "outlevel' an area is if you are PVE'ing, and PvP'ing simutaneously. In no way, in my playthrough, did I ever outlevel content in any zone, until I began to mix PvP into the equation, and that was before XP lock, so there was no twinking really going on.
    Although that is the most common way to outlevel an area, it is not the only way. I for one outleveled zone content regularly when I first started playing, due to my obsession with chasing down and closing every rift or invasion I could find on the map. Granted, this happened most often at release, when zone events were more common and the concept of rifts was still new and shiny enough that I would abandon all else the second I saw one appear on the map, but it has still happened occasionally on alts. Also keep in mind that there are people who become worried just by their quests turning "green" instead of "grey", who will want to stop XP gain as soon as that happens - and I have never once leveled an alt that did not experience green quests for at least half of their duration in each zone, PVP or no PVP.

    Quote Originally Posted by tevikolady View Post
    Yes, and no.

    I put such a limitation on this, because id someone truly wanted to twink out that badly, and this was their idea of fun...whats to stop them from doing this with 4+ toons? Of server hopping and doing this repeatedly??

    And as for making a character to level with a friend...I do that as well. I have one toon that I exclusively run with a friend, and another that I run with for my own enjoyment, without limits impossed by keeping in level with another person. I used XP only when I was level 49 so that we would roll over to level 50 together, and that was it. Otherwise, we stayed fairly even on XP.
    A good way to do things, one that many people use - but some people enjoy maintaining a single character, rather than rolling a new one. If someone starts the game one week ahead of their friend, that person can make a lot of progress but might not be ready to roll an alt just yet; turning off XP gain temporarily and waiting for the friend to catch up could be a more desirable solution in such situations.

    I don't think that disliking twinks justifies depriving people of a useful or enjoyable mechanic. The 'fix' you propose might make things slightly more uncomfortable for the twinks, but it will most assuredly harm everyone else who uses this mechanic, even though they haven't done anything detrimental to your personal playing experience. An ideal "fix", if it needs to be fixed at all, should take these people into consideration and try not to inconvenience them in the process.

  9.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #9
    Community Manager Elrar's Avatar
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    Hey guys,

    I decided to post in this thread because it has great constructive discussion and a variety of opinions in addition to not too many replies yet.

    This is a topic we've been watching closely since the release of 1.7. Now that it's had some time to settle we are taking a look at the numbers to see how much of an impact xp-locked players have in the leveling brackets in order to get an accurate perspective.

    That said, we also want to ensure that warfront queues are reasonable and as quick as possible.
    Ultimately your enjoyment is what matters - any solution has to actually solve a problem not create or mask new ones. I think most of us can agree that we'd want to avoid a situation where everyone waits longer to still wind up in the same match against each other, or to not be able to have a reasonable queue time at all.

    With this in mind - we have adjusted some items to reduce their effectiveness in the past and will do so again if the need arises in the future.

    Please continue to share your feedback and ideas - we really appreciate those of you who have maintained constructive discussions while sharing opposing points of view. In exchange I can assure you we'll keep reading it

    Thanks all,
    Last edited by Elrar; 03-09-2012 at 01:50 PM.

  10. #10
    Sword of Telara Sykk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elrar View Post
    That said, we also want to ensure that warfront queues are reasonable and as quick as possible.
    Ultimately your enjoyment is what matters - any solution has to actually solve a problem not create or mask new ones. I think most of us can agree that we'd want to avoid a situation where everyone waits longer to still wind up in the same match against each other, or to not be able to have a reasonable queue time at all.
    thought the merc system covered this issue

  11. #11
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    Low level Ques are 1000% better because of twinks. Now when they pop, maybe half the team is max level and actually knows what they are doing. (plus the WF's are full. I hated 5 v 4 black garden's before twinks) I hated low level pvp before because it was 90% noobs who didn't care about their gear or learning how to spec. Level's X0 - X5 got squashed by level X8 and X9 before twinks so I do not know what they are complaining about now. Maybe if they took a little pride in their performance and did a little reseach before they just jumped in, their experience would be better.

    I have read complaints that twinks ruined low level pvp yet there has been little low level pvp since the first couple months anyway.

    Twinking adds to the game not takes away. People like me who can only play half an hour at most these days, can have a bit of fun now and this is the only reason I am still subscribed. I have been in some great WF's lately with lots of twinks on both sides. The dps to health to heal ratio's can be a bit off depending on bracket but at least in lower brackets you may not have access to some of the skills that can break a WF depending on comp.

    It really is only the level X1-5's that are often a waste of space but I check around before a WF starts and they continue to Que up so it can't be that bad.
    Last edited by daarknight; 03-09-2012 at 02:11 PM.

  12. #12
    Sword of Telara Sykk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daarknight View Post
    Low level Ques are .... bad.
    so your solution is to do nothing cus you have a twink, nice input

  13. #13
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daarknight View Post
    Low level Ques are 1000% better because of twinks. Now when they pop, maybe half the team is max level and actually knows what they are doing. (plus the WF's are full. I hated 5 v 4 black garden's before twinks) I hated low level pvp before because it was 90% noobs who didn't care about their gear or learning how to spec. Level's X0 - X5 got squashed by level X8 and X9 before twinks so I do not know what they are complaining about now. Maybe if they took a little pride in their performance and did a little reseach before they just jumped in, their experience would be better.

    I have read complaints that twinks ruined low level pvp yet there has been little low level pvp since the first couple months anyway.

    Twinking adds to the game not takes away. People like me who can only play half an hour at most these days, can have a bit of fun now and this is the only reason I am still subscribed. I have been in some great WF's lately with lots of twinks on both sides. The dps to health to heal ratio's can be a bit off depending on bracket but at least in lower brackets you may not have access to some of the skills that can break a WF depending on comp.

    It really is only the level X1-5's that are often a waste of space but I check around before a WF starts and they continue to Que up so it can't be that bad.
    Honestly, I have to respectfully disagree.

    I have quite a few 50s I leveled pre-lock xp, and a few miscellaneous alts that I leveled solely via PvP, and I found pre-50 PvP to be much more fun and balanced than 50.
    ~Quiescent

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    Maybe my point was missed. I did say that *my* stance on twinking is that I don't like it. I never said I want to do away with it. All I was suggesting with the 1 hour lock is to limit the impact twinks can have upon those who cannot afford, or don't have the means, to twink out.

    People will always look for the overall advantage in PvP. It's natural, whether it is through a superior build, better gear, better enhancements, or through actual skill, they will seek to be better than those whom they've engaged. I am not seeking to disolve that, blazes, even *I* had considered that very same idea when I made a level 1 rogue..."I can lock this chicks exp at 19 and dominate the warfront'. Sadly, I had the idea, but not the means to go as far as many have.

    Again, this 'idea' wasn't about taking it away, but to limit the impact is has. Maybe by doing something along these lines will encourage people to progress instead of waiting 20 hours. *twinks* create a hurdle (or bottleneck as I called it) from non-twinked PvP'ers because you can't get exp if you are dead on your back more often than not. And if the other side has mroe twinks, you are dead ore often than not, and not getting *as much* exp. YOu will still get your payout in the end, but you will not get as much as the twink side gets. At level 10, in evenly matched up Warfronts, it takes about an average of 3-4 matches to rank up to level 11. If your side is getting consistently steam rolled, it can average about 6-8 matches...just to get to level 11. Now scale that for *each* level you wish to advance through *twinked* PvP.

    -OR-

    Bolster everyone up to level 19...(skills sets and all with a trainer to train skills) and put everyone is *standard issue* warfront gear. Buffs like Whetstones, armor plating would be *suspended* (like you were to be logged off and not decay) but have no impact on dps.

    That way, what makes a difference in PvP is builds, skill and strats.

    Still, the aforementioned way is a bit extreme to 'level the playing field'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elrar View Post
    Hey guys,

    I decided to post in this thread because it has great constructive discussion and a variety of opinions in addition to not too many replies yet.

    This is a topic we've been watching closely since the release of 1.7. Now that it's had some time to settle we are taking a look at the numbers to see how much of an impact xp-locked players have in the leveling brackets in order to get an accurate perspective.

    That said, we also want to ensure that warfront queues are reasonable and as quick as possible.
    Ultimately your enjoyment is what matters - any solution has to actually solve a problem not create or mask new ones. I think most of us can agree that we'd want to avoid a situation where everyone waits longer to still wind up in the same match against each other, or to not be able to have a reasonable queue time at all.
    Hey Elrar. I posted a thread a few days ago suggesting that leveling warfronts receive some sort of valor bolstering similar to what is done for lower ranks in level 50 warfronts.

    There are a few reasons why I suggested this that I'll go over here in maybe a more concise fashion:

    1) The gear "twinks" are wearing is from PvE sources, so any adjustments to the gear are going to have ramifications in the PvE end of things. Joe isn't going to like logging in one day to find out his planar gear...which he bought with currency he earned through PvE and uses in PvE because he doesn't do PvP at all...has been nerfed because of what players are doing in warfronts.

    I would be in full support of adjustments to crafting augments and enhancements. A level 12 player running around in gear crated with epic augments and weapons with level 50 enhancements applied to them before they're shipped off to the alt throw the entire 10-19 itemization out of whack. Maybe append restrictions to crafting augments so that you can't apply a rare augment to any item below level 20 or epic augments to anything below level 30 to preserve the scaling.

    2) "Twink" survivability in the leveling brackets doesn't come from defense, it comes from offense. In full gear my level 49 characters have maybe 20-25% more health than a non-"twinked" character which is significant but not gamebreaking. What it comes down to is I can kill non-geared players much faster than they can kill me and then I move on to the next. Geared players with particular builds had no trouble at all dispatching my warrior when I was in the 40-49 bracket (looking at you, pyrodoms D:<)

    3) Adding something like a flat 30% reduction to damage via valor bolstering in pre-50 warfronts would take the "one-shot" burst out of geared characters. I know my cleric can do more damage than a lot of players have max health in the 40-49 bracket with a Fanaticism buffed Bolt of Depravity followed immediately by a Sanction Heretic crit. Cut that damage by 30% and it gives healers a bit more time to respond. Damage reduction from valor scales with offense. The guy hitting me for 300 damage before a valor bolstering addition goes down to 200 damage. Me hitting that guy for 1000 damage goes down to 700. I take the biggest reduction because I can afford to take the biggest reduction.

    4) If we're talking about introducing new players to the way warfronts play out at level 50, adding valor bolstering to the lower brackets would more closely reflect the state of the game at 50 than any other change or addition. The difference between what my warrior was doing as a geared 49 and what I do in non-ranked matches at 50 is enormous. I expected it because I've been around for a while and I'm familiar with the dynamics in the different brackets. For a new players it could come as a bit of a shock.

    I know it's a fine line to walk between preserving the experience for everyone without making people who are using the itemization as intended feel like they're being punished. With the exception of augments and enhancements, I don't know that it's necessary to adjust things at the itemization level.

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