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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Idea for *twinks*

  1. #91
    Rift Master LeCreaux's Avatar
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    I admit I do like running a warfront or two with my 19 twink saboteur, but it gets old after more than that. It's downright silly sometimes to be able to blow up half the enemy team and end with many times the killing blows of everybody else.

    But I know it's the gear. My twink has almost all purples, all runes, 6 essences, etc. It's completely not fair and I know it, even though I'm snickering when I blow people up one after another. But what bugs me are the players who twink all day and yell taunts the whole time. If that irritates me and I'm also twinking, I can only imagine how much it gets on everybody elses' last nerve.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShalarLight View Post
    I see a few nice advantages to having twinks in the game:

    #1 by far the biggest advantage - Creates a market for player crafted goods and exceptional random drops from artifact sets and the like.

    #2 Creates an environment for people frustrated or bored with level 50 pvp to go and relax.

    That said I see some very bad side effects as well, which I think are outweighted by the positives above:

    #1! (needs a looking at) Farming currency for level 50 gear to give severe advantages in the 1-20 bracket - coming in with top tier gear at fresh rank 1 will break the most balanced pvp in rift, the 1-20 bracket. It will take a very very long time to get the gear but the advantage it would give you is game altering (more even than hk gear)


    #2 People resorting to twinks in order to scratch the itch of noone being able to compete with them unless its 5-6 vs 1 situation. Could possibly turn people away from the game as hopelessly broken.
    1) The issue of farming level 50 gear should have an easy fix, assuming Trion can detect PvP gear level.

    2) You miss the most important con: It destroys the balance within the brackets and makes PvP very frustrating and un-fun for many of the untwinked players. This is not good for the long term sustainability of the player base for Rift PvP.

    It appears to me that queue times for 40-49 PvP have gotten longer rather than shorter as a result of twinking. I may be completely off as I don't have actual hard data, but that is the impression I am getting lately. It wouldn't be too surprising, as lately half of the matches consist of spawn camping the other team or being spawn camped.

  3. #93
    Plane Touched Shield Happens's Avatar
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    I have a better idea: Do not PVP until you're level 50. ..or R40 ..wait, you better don't PVP at all.
    Core of Icewatch - MOIRAE
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  4. #94
    Prophet of Telara Kaelani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elrar View Post
    Ultimately your enjoyment is what matters - any solution has to actually solve a problem not create or mask new ones.
    Elrar, it's amazing to me that you would make a statement like this in the face of the proposed changes to Wardens proposed for Patch 1.8.

    Trion is fixing a perceived problem in PvP, which is going to adversely affect PvE Raid Healing.
    That's creating a problem with the proposed solution, isn't it?

    ...and despite thread after thread asking why it was needed in PvE, there has not been one single word from those responsible for this change as to why Warden PvE raid healing is considered "overpowered".

    It's not just one change... it's four changes, with every one a reduction in healing.
    Why gut a soul that wasn't broken in PvE to fix a problem in PvP?

    This seems to fly in the face of your statement.

  5. #95
    Sword of Telara Chancellor Gowron's Avatar
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    I left my warrior, Grizza, at 49 for a couple weeks for some twinkage and it was absolutely ridiculously overpowered. I could jump into an entire group of non twinks and AOE them all to death in like 3 gcd. Pretty much any character that was neither a twink or tank could easily be killed in like 2-3 gcd MAX.

    Most players have like 4k health or something in the 40s bracket and when i hit them for like 2300+ bladefury and 1200 mighty blow it's just not fair at all. My bloodthirst crit so hard that when used with shifting blades I could literally 1 shot some mages or at least get them to less than 500hp which might as well be a 1 shot because bloodthirst procs frenzied strike so it was like a 1 GCD no skill kill no matter what. On top of all that I wasn't even that close to the max possible gear for my level.

    I had the epic lvl 48 sword "Verdict" from CR which is just WAAAY to powerful for sub level 50. I see low ranked 50 warriors in wfs now who still have lower dps 2h than that. When the game first came out I don't think there was ANYTHING like those weapons in the game at low levels. Some of those 48 epics and planar equipment really need to be toned down.

    The facerollage possible with that character kind of made me feel dirty and sick to my stomach so I'm now at 50 plodding my way through the prestige ranks.

  6. #96
    Soulwalker
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    I'd like to reply to this topic as a newbie to Rift, bringing in the perspective of someone on the losing end of the twinking stick.

    I'm long winded, so I'll start with the tl;dr. Below the solid line, I expend on the below tl;dr.
    As a new player, who has PVPed a lot the past week that I've played Rift, I've also encountered this issue. I also do feel PVP is somewhat unbalanced because of it, and something should be done to remedy it.
    Some player, who has a level 50 main and worked hard for that, and equally worked hard collecting all kinds of materials and items to make a good level X9 gear set for an alt, deserves to enjoy that without getting his gear suddenly nerfed. It only makes sense then, to help the weaker players to become more efficient in gearing themselves, to allow them to be somewhat on par with the better geared player (depending on how much effort they invest into gearing themselves, of course).
    I don't feel a simple PVP vendor give-away (you still have to pay with Valor, but.. it still feels cheap) of good gear for low level players to match up better solves any issue.
    Instead, I think that a good introductory set of quests that helps new players more thoroughly understand the game mechanics, and what to do to obtain good gear to become more competitive helps a lot more. After all, 'Give a man a fish, and feed him for a day. Teach a man how to fish, and teach him for a life-time.', and I think this applies to the current situation. Help the new players get geared better, in a way they understand how to do it, and the issue with twinks will naturally solve itself.

    __________________________________________________ ____________

    Longer story..

    I don't feel the issue is nearly as huge as some state it is in this thread. I've started playing Rift a week ago and leveled solely through PVP from level 13ish to level 26. (I'm an avid PVP player) I joined the 20-29 bracket, knowing full well that a level 20 in that bracket is a walking target practice. Every match, I've seen people completely dominating other players, where it would take at least 5+ of us to take that single person down.
    Yet in all matches that I've played, it only happened once in the Codex where the opposing team got full control of all sites and were basically waiting for us to respawn and be killed, and where their team had several players capable of nearly one-shotting us.
    Yes, that single match was frustrating to the point of rage-quitting. However, every other match I've played, I've not faced such overwhelming odds, or was in a team myself with such overwhelming power.

    That either means that:
    -there aren't that many twinks;
    -the twinks balance each other out?;
    -I'm a lucky bastard;
    -when having at least somewhat decent gear, you still have a fighting chance. (My personal favourite)

    From these options, I know for certain option 1 isn't true. I've seen someone else state the damage dealt list in this thread earlier, and I see the same things. At least 2-4 people every single match with absurdly more (often double or more) damage dealt than the average players.
    Option 2 and 3? No way to test that, so I'll leave that in the middle.

    Option 4? I believe this is what it boils down to most and from here, I'll also move on to adding my main feedback for this issue (basically reiterating the comments of some other players in this thread). I've played MMO's for 10+ years. I've played PVP a lot in most games. I like being competitive in gaming environments regardless of PVP. I know the basic rule of trying to be competitive with other players, is to spend time and resources on getting good gear. Period. Like I said, I'm only level 26, I've only played Rift for a week, but at least almost all my gear is blue, with minor effort to do it even, really. If I inspect other players in Warfronts, that at least proves to me that I'm doing better than the majority of lower level PVP players.
    Yet still, the gap between some OP players is still obviously noticeable between me and better geared players. (In other words, I don't even want to imagine what it's like for someone with a few green pieces of gear, and some empty slots.. brrr) One hit taking away half my health still sucks, even if I do feel I've spend time gearing up. Does that mean that there's just so much of a difference between our gear? Or do they have things I don't have? Honestly, I dont know. Which leads me to..

    Wrath Spikes, Burning Powerstones, Ancient Burning Powerstones, Wrath Stones, Mighty Wrath Stones, Massive Weaponstones, Ancient Massive Weaponstones, Exquisite Whetstones, Ancient Exquisite Whetstones, Exquisite Oilstones, and Ancient Exquisite Oilstones now require level 50 to use.
    * PvP: Battlemaster's Source Engine and Battlemaster's Sigil now require level 50 to equip.
    Wait what?

    I believe gearing options are terribly explained in lower levels in Rift.
    Crafting introduction quests are nothing more than "Craft three burlap shoes for me.". I've picked up tailoring, but I can only buy recipes from my tailoring dude for green gear. So getting good gear, at least at a first glance, from crafting isn't an option?
    I've gotted lots of items from rifts that I don't know what they are for. After visiting every NPC in Meridian, to see if I can turn those in somewhere for awards, I couldn't find anything. So no getting good items from rifting either?
    I've used my valor points to get basically all level 25 items I could find across the PVP vendors in Meridian for mages. That was not much either.
    I have a lesser source engine and runes? (I think) to go in there. But barely anything worth mentioning. I can't find any runes on the auction house in my level bracket, except for a few 10+ titanium coins, which is, frankly, still a lot of money for someone like me who just started playing, and just doesn't get much incoming cash flow.

    And then there's those two quote's above. Stones? Sigils? And I'm sure I can find other things that I've overlooked where I can spend some more time to try to be competitive and match up to the better geared players.

    What I'm saying is, is that I -personally- don't see twinkers as a problem. I feel the issue lies in the issue of obtaining knowledge on how-to gear up properly in Rift, at least for PVP centered players. I've at least finished every quest up to level 15ish, and I've read every quest description intently. I've followed most of the directions the hints gave me (even though they annoyed the crap out of me).
    And I'm the kind of person to use spreadsheets to min-max for getting the best options possible. So don't get me wrong, me coming to this forum was basically me starting with my research on how to improve myself after 1 week of trying out PVP. But I think that many players don't share my passion for thoroughly exploring all the game has to offer by plowing through forums and wiki's, to obtain a certain edge over others.

    I don't think that Trion should spend much resources on trying to balance out gear, or make all-kinds of ridiculous restrains like: If player A has gear ...., then his effective gear strength when player A is level XX while entering warfront II facing players B-G with gear that is XX% worse than player A, his gear get scaled down by XX%. Got all that? Good, because I nearly lost myself writing that. I'm sure you can do all kinds of fancy balancing, but an easier way would be to just get the worse players to be more on par with the gimped players.

    I've seen comments in this thread stating "Then just throw blue+ full gear sets & everything else needed in the PVP shops, which is PVP-only gear and can be easily bought with Valor.". Even though I like this option, it only gives players the proverbial fish. You give them some easily obtained decent gear to be somewhat competitive versus really gimped players. I'd rather see Trion give players the proverbial fishing rod, and teach them how to use it, so they can feed for a life-time.

    Which finally leads me to: Many games have this, and it seems odd that something that seems as polished as Rift doesn't, but make one series of introductory quests, that start the second you enter your first major city (where all crafting vendors and PVP and random award vendors are located) that makes you visit all these different NPC's, tell you what it is they do, what all the slots and stats in your character information window mean (globally), where you can obtain gear, or how to make it, and give some fat paycheck at the end of that quest chain to get people started. Basically use a quest chain like this to make it possible for new players to at least somewhat compete with the overgeared players.

    After Trion would implement something as obvious as a quest chain like this, that offers you all the starting point information on how to properly gear yourself for things like rifts, dungeons and most importantly (for the purpose of this thread) PVP, if people would then still complain about PVP being unfair because of twinks, you can then easily point said players to said quest chain, tell them to get going and do it, and be done with it.

    Just my few.. uhm.. not so few.. 1000 cents.

    Cheers.

  7. #97
    Soulwalker Andastre's Avatar
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    I've thoroughly read any posts that were trying to make a reasonable argument, and as a relatively new player myself, I have to add a note or 2.
    As a former WoW player, I was very much into a quite unexplored part of twinking, known as oddball twinking. Hence the "twink" in my signature. From personal experience I can confirm that even a level 16 in the 10-19 bracket, I generally top damage charts and down healers with ease. Craftable gear with reputation runes and epic augments is incredibly powerful and it is only imaginable that there is no way for a lowbie in quest greens to stand a chance against a twinked character. Knowing this, and considering viable options, it's hard to change what already started. Augments and runes once added to gear are there to stay, at least now. Even with the level requirement recently added to reputation runes, my Mathosian Tumbler's rune works. I assume the same will count for epic augments if they are given a level requirement. What this will do is prevent new twinks from creating similar gear, but those that do have gear might very well be active enough to have a considerable imbalance, at least for the coming months, likely longer.

    I myself create a twink for more then just "shining" in warfronts. I personally love the vanity aspect of twinking. Obtaining achievements designed for higher level players. The actual gearing and the constant search for improvement. The challenge to especially pick out those level 19 twinks, ganking them (and quite often killing them) and then move on to a next target. A normal lowbie is no challenge and I'm not a coward, I prefer to leave them alone as much as possible.

    Now, a few options arise. Either seperate those with and those without xp lock, generating absurd warfront queue times due to a still small player base, disabling xp locks as long as one is in a warfront, upsetting those that want to level with a friend and as such disable their xp gain while still able to play their lowbie, generating very easily accessable gear and making all possible souls alot easier to play, resulting in WoW's mistake, the game becomes too easy because it undoubtedly changes endgame play as well, and on top makes actual endgame PvP the most imbalanced of all brackets, or doing nothing about the matter, leaving the same topic to be discussed for all eternity.

    As you might see, it's likely not the game itself that can change anymore in order to give newcomers a chance in PvP. Now, the gamers? It's quite easy to predict any actions from them. A level 19 twink generally doesn't look for a challenge, but seeks to 1-shot and farm lowbies for as long as they like. That won't change and is naive to expect.

    So, what do I think, could at least improve the current status...
    Favor gain could be locked for people with an xp lock. Making sure one has to level and gain favor as originally intended, takes away some interest for mostly higher level (not endgame) twink brackets, while still leaving plenty of room for a twink to obtain pvp items suitable for their bracket.
    Giving a lower level in a battleground a stat percentage bonus and some damage reduction versus higher level characters in the same bracket, the lower the level, the higher the bonus, whilst not getting too extreme, some sort of a buff that lasts until leaving the warfront while not giving a low level an unreasonable advantage against a higher level but ungeared character. What I mean is, for example, a level 10 gains a 18% stat buff, decreasing by 2% each gained level. Add in a 9% starting damage reduction, also decreasing but by 1%. This would balance out PvP more then anything remotely possible, I think.

    At last, people will always complain for either fair or unfair reasons, I think this would satisfy alot of them to an acceptable degree. Right?

    Sorry for the long post, I have thought about this for some time and hope to have helped out and at least presented a few options.

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