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Thread: Constructive PvP

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Unthinkk's Avatar
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    Default Constructive PvP

    What I want with Arena:

    General:

    -Maps
    I want the maps to be contained to a variety. We, as a community, do not want to be running the “one” (1) map over and over again. We need variety.
    Add anti-stealth mechanics to prevent people from sitting in stealth entire matches after X amount of time.

    First) One map that is open, some LoS but minimum. CODEX could give you a rough example, such as having a post in the center, both teams start at an opposite side and that’s it.

    Second) Another map that would have to be designed to incorporate LoS to accommodate team combos that would rather need LoS. (Yes, this creates that some maps are better than others for different setups, you should adjust accordingly community). You could run with an idea from such as black garden. The center area where the fang spawns. Have the “gates” that start the match at the edge of the cliff, then you would have a tree (pillar) on both sides, and the center area as forms of LoS.

    Third) A mix between everything or a different map to please the community. This could be anything ranging from having a large arena to a small one, lots of LoS, minimum LoS, etc. We just want a design that looks different with a different function and a new strategy to learn how to play the field! That’s what pvp’ers want.. A challenge.

    Fourth) I don’t want to do the ‘flat surface’ maps. Developers! You should attempt to try and create mountains, puddles, etc. to accommodate the feel of the outdoor world! Shimmersand, where the pvp dailies are, would be a great model to behind doing this. LoS, open, a bridge there (Lol), mountains, etc.

    All other options are open to the devs / community!


    -Size of matches

    3v3 –
    4v4 –
    5v5 –

    We have to keep them small enough for participation. We don’t have the giant population to support larger matches. I’ve never been a supporter of ranked warfronts, they just won’t happen that way.
    We also need to implement the queue system to allow us to fight each other. Ex. – Mercenary system already puts us on the other faction’s team. You can already fight a guardian player as a guardian in a warfront. Implementing the same system with arena, you could have Guardian V Guardian and Defiant V Defiant in each match that wanted to be played.

    -Idea of how it should be played
    I agree to death match scenarios. The first team to eliminate the other side should be victorious.

    Another setup that could be used would be holding an objective for points and having a consistent respawn for a specific time limit. Such as, you fight for a center objective, capture it and hold it for points. The points would generate as a moderate rate, and the idea is to get the objective back. The match would be based on a time limit or max points (to prevent farming to an extreme) that would be, let’s say, 500.
    One last idea I have is having consistent respawns but not having an objective. Having quick respawn timers and a relatively quick match. The first one to achieve X Kills wins or the one with the most kills within X minutes receives the win.

    -Rank System

    A ladder would be fantastic, but it does need to be reset maybe every major patch. You don’t have to have ‘seasons’ such as WoW, but we do want to be recognized for our rank. Once you achieve a certain rank, you earn a particular title or reward.
    If we wanted to do a ‘numbered rank system’ such as WoW, where you start out at a number and work your way up or down, that would be a great start or at least idea. So, start at 1000 --- The higher you go the higher the rank, the lower the worse.

    1500+ Receive Appropriate title for prestige 4 equivalent title/gear for class. Ex --- Clerics would receive the title Redeemer along with a redeemer piece. Mages/warriors/rogues would have their equivalent for their prestige rank 4 gear.

    1800+ Receive Appropriate Title for prestige rank 6 equivalent title/gear for class. Ex --- Clerics would receive the title Exemplar along with an Exemplar piece. Mages/warriors/rogues would have their equivalent for their prestige rank 6 gear.

    2100+ Receive Appropriate Title for prestige rank 8 equivalent title/gear for class. Ex--- Clerics would receive the title Archangel along with an Archangel piece. Mages/warriors/rogues would have their equivalent for their prestige rank 8 gear.

    -Titles: I have two ideas for the titles

    1) Make them a suffix. “The Exemplar” so your name COULD be “Colonel Unthinkable The Exemplar”
    2) OR make them a prefix. “Soothsayer Norcomtis Hand of the Arcane”

    - Rewards: You could give out those ‘satchels’ that we get from pvp quest and put them to use! Make them give a random piece of gear (respective to the title they earned). For example, you achieve the rank of “Soothsayer”, you would be awarded with a random piece of Soothsayer gear for mages. If you already have this piece, you can refund the Soothsayer piece for the favor required for it. This should help people who are under-geared that are actually skilled.
    Another idea with you could do with that is making the pvp quest that you do for the daily warfront and turn it into a weekly to get a piece of gear respective to the title you have earned. Ex --- You get Soothsayer title for getting 2100+ in arena, you do your weekly warfront quest and earn a bag after achieving a win. Open the bag to a random piece of Soothsayer gear.
    The rank system is just an idea that may seem like I copied it, but I didn’t. I want to skill enforce the rank system we already have with p0-p40 and then instill the new system to go along with it.
    Last edited by Unthinkk; 03-07-2012 at 09:50 AM.
    Unthinkable
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  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Unthinkk's Avatar
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    I would like to keep this constructive. If you do not like something, please state what it is and tell the community what we could have to improve your concern.


    This makes it good for everyone, including the developers.
    Unthinkable
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  3. #3
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    [Edit}

    Elo systems do not belong in any MMO when it comes to pvp, the system in this game is fine, I enjoy pvp and all it has to offer in this game, I suggest if you do not enjoy this game, the you should seek other products that will suit your taste.
    Last edited by Augureze; 03-07-2012 at 11:14 AM. Reason: quoted post was removed
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Robes's Avatar
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    Arena .
    Teddro - Warrior - Seastone

    Synna - Rogue - Vigil

    Synna Stonecove/Invalid Target for all those darkfall people

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple Unthinkk's Avatar
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    [Edit] I suggested an addition to the game. It's called progress. We don't want a game to stay the same, we play it because it's ever changing.
    Last edited by Augureze; 03-07-2012 at 11:23 AM. Reason: removed reply to a post that was removed
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  6. #6
    Rift Disciple Unthinkk's Avatar
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    Please, be constructive! We want feedback!
    Unthinkable
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  7. #7
    Plane Walker Azchire's Avatar
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    While I think arena would be fun, and anything new to Rift's pvp is welcome, it depends on class balance too much. Too much of the devs' time would have to be spent redesigning class functionality to ensure fair matches.

    What I'd love to see is a rated warfront or at the the least, a way to queue up premade-vs-premade. Full premades of 10-20, not the way it works now.
    Warfront gameplay is more about big-picture strategy and large scale team tactics. Class balance definitely has an effect in competitive warfronts, but as the number of participants increases, the focus on individual class balance is difused. It's all worth considering though!

    P.S. http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/fo...edTheTroll.jpg

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Unthinkk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azchire View Post
    While I think arena would be fun, and anything new to Rift's pvp is welcome, it depends on class balance too much. Too much of the devs' time would have to be spent redesigning class functionality to ensure fair matches.

    What I'd love to see is a rated warfront or at the the least, a way to queue up premade-vs-premade. Full premades of 10-20, not the way it works now.
    Warfront gameplay is more about big-picture strategy and large scale team tactics. Class balance definitely has an effect in competitive warfronts, but as the number of participants increases, the focus on individual class balance is difused. It's all worth considering though!

    P.S. http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/fo...edTheTroll.jpg
    As I think rated warfronts would be a cool addition, do we really have that kind of a population to do it w/o having long queues? That's the thing you have to consider. It wouldn't be active enough.
    Last edited by Unthinkk; 03-07-2012 at 11:05 AM.
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  9. #9
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    RIFT does not have the population to do rated warfronts, and arena would destroy class balance and make this game not enjoyable for people that rolled the wrong class, your ideas would ruin an already working game. If you so badly desire arena, please try other games that have it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple Unthinkk's Avatar
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    You don't have to balance the game around my version of arena. It's just an option. This game was based on group pvp; Not 1v1 or 2v2 obviously. I suggested 3v3, 4v4, and 5v5 for accessibility. It's easier to coordinate and have people 'queueing' (such as a warfront) for these things this way. You don't have to balance individual classes to a halt.


    Some roles are stronger than others for certain situations.. Every class has a counter for each other composition that you would fight. So for class balancing, it's already been taken care of by every class being able to change there role. Run a setup, find what you're good against, find what you're bad against and adjust. That's the great thing about having 6 roles, 8 souls, and a lot of options!

    If you respond, constructive feedback on how to fix it would be ideal.
    Last edited by Unthinkk; 03-07-2012 at 11:36 AM.
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  11. #11
    Rift Chaser
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    I would prefer for them to add additional WF's before they move on to arena. It would be nice to see a new 5v5, and a few new 10v10 and 15v15 WF's, to give us a bit more variety.

    They could even use a bunch of new 5v5 WF's limited only to premade groups as training and development for arena - figure out what maps are fair, how the 5v5 mechanics work, etc...

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Like Cygnarite"s Idea

    New 5 v 5 Wfs that pit either premades vs premades or pugs vs pugs, but no pugs vs premades. They could even have the pug queues like the instance queues so all parties have healers.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    Not to be a wet blanket, but arenas just won't work very well in this game, unless...

    ...they keep it to a 5v5 team size. Anything smaller will be highly effected by team comp and balance issues.

    ...it remains a niche, not wholly supported system (i.e. Don't balance the game around them).

    ...they do not make them a "must play" part of the game by, for example, awarding special, better gear that is only earned through arenas.

    In short, let's not make all the same mistakes WoW did.

    Quote Originally Posted by cygnarite View Post
    I would prefer for them to add additional WF's before they move on to arena. It would be nice to see a new 5v5, and a few new 10v10 and 15v15 WF's, to give us a bit more variety.

    They could even use a bunch of new 5v5 WF's limited only to premade groups as training and development for arena - figure out what maps are fair, how the 5v5 mechanics work, etc...
    I say go bigger. We already have small-ish scale PvP. What we need is something a bit more epic. Larger teams on a bigger map is what I'd like to see.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Unthinkk's Avatar
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    Okay, I see.


    Adding another warfront is a separate discussion. We are discussing what is wrong with this topic.

    Along the lines of adding warfronts, I agree. I think it'd be interesting to see some new flavor in that department to keep more sparks interested in pvp.

    However, I don't feel like you read the post, and we're looking to be constructive. Point out what's wrong and what could make it better. That's the goal of this. To change the subject to what you want from a warfront perspective should be another thread.
    Unthinkable
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  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Unthinkk's Avatar
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    Also(Cause it won't let me edit),

    You said "5v5" warfront would be a great idea for premade v premade or pug v pug.. You could allow random queing for "arenas" and that would essentially give you the same thing. I'm just trying to help organized pvp become existent. Calling it a warfront, arena, battleground, war field, etc. It's all the same. It doesn't matter the name. So we can make a "5v5" warfront in which you "queue" to fight another 'Premade' team of either faction. It's the same thing, see? You just have to interpret it the way you want it to be seen. Read the post, you'll get a lot of good information.
    Unthinkable
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