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Thread: Idea for "twink" dilemma

  1. #1
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    Default Idea for "twink" dilemma

    What if the same valor bolstering system in place for level 50 was added to the lower warfront brackets as well? Scaled to their level to provide a static damage reduction (ie. 50% whether you're level 11 or 49), it would work exactly as it does in the 50s bracket now. It doesn't remove incentive or benefit to progress your character via gear and just helps to tone down the damage scaling as we're seeing it now.

    I readily acknowledge that my characters can throw down some pretty obscene burst. When my cleric can toss a Fanaticism buffed Bolt of Depravity at a target and follow it with a Sanction Heretic crit so they land at the same time for a total of sometimes over 4k damage, there's no arguing that it cuts the margin of error to near zero. And by that I mean that assuming the target had over 4k max health, they were at full health to begin with, and they had access to any kind of healing at all, if that heal doesn't land in about 1.5 seconds they're basically dead.

    I've been on the receiving end of that kind of damage and even with my warrior's gear it's tough to respond in a way that turns the tide. It's usually a trip back to the GY. I'm seeing Storm Shackles crit for over 1k/tick, and they're always combined with fireballs and flame bolts and infernos and such. I actually had one of my "favorite" Defiant mage twinks squirrel me today when Break Free and Rift Walk were both on CD. They broke the squirrel with a fireball crit for around 1300 damage and between the Storm Shackle they applied when I was a squirrel and the Flamebolt/Inferno, I was dead by the time I reached them with Bull Rush. At that point it's obviously not even sporting. It's "lolsquirrelurdead."

    And even my warrior can put over 4k damage on someone in a fraction of a second with crits and the right procs. None of these situations are things that chain from one target to the next, but it does have the potential to happen often enough to merit concern.

    Something like this would also likely require an adjustment to healing, because my cleric's heals heal for as much as my cleric's nukes do damage. With no adjustment to healing to balance the reduction in damage, we'd be seeing the "gg Trion healers are invincible" debacle all over again.

    Just throwing it out there. I don't really care what people think about what I do in warfronts...I support sporting, competitive gameplay, not demoralizing players with giant walls of four-digit crits every time they get anywhere near a fight.

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    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    So if I read that right, you're saying that even twink vs twink the output damage exceeds what the gear is designed to receive even at full health and adding valor would help mitigate people not having enough time to even respond before they are dead. Especially if they are cc'd. Well, that gets my vote.

    For the life of me I don't understand why there seems to be no dr on being squirreled and no one can convince me it has a dr, because I get chain squirreled all the time (up to 5 times in a row it has happened to me; popped out of squirrel due to incoming damage and with just barely enough time to do just one hot or pot onto myself and then immediately squirreled yet again for rinse and repeat with Break Free on cd, lol of course that was from multiple mages and not just one).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taptap View Post
    So if I read that right, you're saying that even twink vs twink the output damage exceeds what the gear is designed to receive even at full health and adding valor would help mitigate people not having enough time to even respond before they are dead. Especially if they are cc'd. Well, that gets my vote.
    I think the valor part would be the simplest solution. Adjusting healing might not be so simple.

    For the life of me I don't understand why there seems to be no dr on being squirreled and no one can convince me it has a dr, because I get chain squirreled all the time (up to 5 times in a row it has happened to me; popped out of squirrel due to incoming damage and with just barely enough time to do just one hot or pot onto myself and then immediately squirreled yet again for rinse and repeat with Break Free on cd, lol of course that was from multiple mages and not just one).
    One thing that might help is to make sure you have ability names turned on for your scrolling combat text. I see a LOT of "Immune (Transmogrify)" scrolling up my screen in matches with a lot of mages. It's gratifying in a way when you've already been squirreled twice and you've got a mage in your sites and that's all you see every 1.5 seconds is "Immune (Transmogrify)" lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taptap View Post
    For the life of me I don't understand why there seems to be no dr on being squirreled and no one can convince me it has a dr, because I get chain squirreled all the time...
    Make a mage and try it. You'll see "immune". I promise.

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    Just fix valor enchants, lessers, and the cores so they have a level 50 requirement.

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    Or...you could bite the bullet and level to 50 and start actually progressing your character, and leave the pre-50 pvp to people that are actually progressing characters.\

    So you acknowledge that you create problems with maxxed characters in pre-50 brackets, yet you want the system changed? Why dont you just quit trying to find the pvp where you absolutely dominate, and actually you know...pvp.

    The system isnt creating the problems, it is the players that want to max their character and farm stuff for level 50 pvp without ever having to face level 50 characters until it is more like the twink bracket they can dominate when they click over, in short, stop playing level 49 pvp, no one cares about how "awsome" you are.
    Last edited by ShalarLight; 03-07-2012 at 01:31 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    FYI Riftstalker running isn't even pve. .... You might as well call riftstalker running PVE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShalarLight View Post
    Or...you could bite the bullet and level to 50 and start actually progressing your character, and leave the pre-50 pvp to people that are actually progressing characters.\

    So you acknowledge that you create problems with maxxed characters in pre-50 brackets, yet you want the system changed? Why dont you just quit trying to find the pvp where you absolutely dominate, and actually you know...pvp.

    The system isnt creating the problems, it is the players that want to max their character and farm stuff for level 50 pvp without ever having to face level 50 characters until it is more like the twink bracket they can dominate when they click over, in short, stop playing level 49 pvp, no one cares about how "awsome" you are.
    Do you honestly think that when I level out of the 49 bracket that everyone else will as well?

    Let's get real here. Geared and xp locked players in the 20-49 brackets are simply making use of the gear that's in the game and readily accessible to anyone. I don't see Trion disabling xp lock for warfronts when part of the reason they added it was clearly in response to people saying they wanted it so that they didn't have to take part in the level 50 grind. And that means that geared and xp locked players in warfronts are here to stay. Those of us in those brackets know how many geared players there are, and from that we also know that segregating queues isn't a solution, either. Geared players just wouldn't get matches, and you can't punish your players for progressing their characters.

    We can live in the utopian land of what "should" be, or we can get down to cases and address the situation based on what is.

    Stop talking like the dynamic at 50 is all that different from what is going on in the lower brackets now. Show me a video of you stripping down to leveling blues and greens when you get thrown into a level 50 warfront against a team consisting primarily of low ranked players and then you'll be in a position to talk about "real" PvP. Until then, it's just double-talk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bounci View Post
    Just fix valor enchants, lessers, and the cores so they have a level 50 requirement.
    Lesser essences with valor on them already have a level 50 restriction. All essences have a level restriction, for that matter. The 50 valor source engine has the greatest impact in the lower brackets, but if it was changed to a level 50 requirement I wouldn't complain. At 49 it provides 2% damage reduction. Even without the source engine there's still plenty of room for characters to reach over-the-top levels through gear alone. I just got out of another match with a pyrodom smashing me for 1300 damage fireball crits. Take away their sigil and they might drop to 1200 damage. Individually it hurts, combined with Heatwave it devastates, and I think most would agree that beyond a certain point it's just no longer sporting.
    Last edited by Licentia; 03-07-2012 at 01:50 PM.

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    Ascendant ShalarLight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    Do you honestly think that when I level out of the 49 bracket that everyone else will as well?

    Let's get real here. Geared and xp locked players in the 20-49 brackets are simply making use of the gear that's in the game and readily accessible to anyone. I don't see Trion disabling xp lock for warfronts when part of the reason they added it was clearly in response to people saying they wanted it so that they didn't have to take part in the level 50 grind. And that means that geared and xp locked players in warfronts are here to stay. Those of us in those brackets know how many geared players there are, and from that we also know that segregating queues isn't a solution, either. Geared players just wouldn't get matches, and you can't punish your players for progressing their characters.

    We can live in the utopian land of what "should" be, or we can get down to cases and address the situation based on what is.

    Stop talking like the dynamic at 50 is all that different from what is going on in the lower brackets now. Show me a video of you stripping down to leveling blues and greens when you get thrown into a level 50 warfront against a team consisting primarily of low ranked players and then you'll be in a position to talk about "real" PvP. Until then, it's just double-talk.
    except i dont have any r40's as of yet, closests is a r30 rogue. r17 warr r22 mage. So when I say there is good matched games, I am saying there are good matched games. So...ya quit acting like having twice as many stats as someone is pvp. You can only control yourself, are you going to continue to be part of the problem?


    You yourself started this thread because there is a problem present, you are only proliferating the problem, the problem that only existed at max level, now for the most part only doesnt exist at max level.
    Last edited by ShalarLight; 03-07-2012 at 01:52 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    FYI Riftstalker running isn't even pve. .... You might as well call riftstalker running PVE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShalarLight View Post
    except i dont have any r40's as of yet, closests is a r30 rogue. r17 warr r22 mage. So when I say there is good matched games, I am saying there are good matched games. So...ya quit acting like having twice as many stats as someone is pvp. You can only control yourself, are you going to continue to be part of the problem?
    You didn't address the issue. The problem is there. It's not going away. According to a recent post from someone here on the forums, they were told by a GM that the devs are looking into reducing the amount of damage flying around pre-50 warfronts.

    So you can sit there all day long arguing this and that, but at some point it would be nice if you would argue from the point of view of reality. That's all I'm saying.

    And the point remains...I'm 100% confident that you don't carry around an extra set of mediocre gear to swap in when your rogue goes up against low ranked players, so stop pretending level 50 is any different.

    You yourself started this thread because there is a problem present, you are only proliferating the problem, the problem that only existed at max level, now for the most part only doesnt exist at max level.
    I'm not doing anything wrong on any of my characters. I'm not gaming the system. I'm not exploiting anything. I'm using the gear and the features the game allows me to use. I didn't create the problem. Trion said we could lock our xp. I said, "Great, now I can farm some extra favor before I roll up to 50." Then I said, "Hmm...I wonder what kind of gear I can get." That's it. That's all.
    Last edited by Licentia; 03-07-2012 at 02:14 PM.

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    Ascendant Charlice's Avatar
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    There would be no dilemma if players could only make the separation between Rift and WoW.


    Den of Madness | Greybriar | Den of Badness | Derpwood

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlice View Post
    There would be no dilemma if players could only make the separation between Rift and WoW.
    That, too. Not counting my weapons it took me a grand total of a few hours to fill out most of the gear on each of my characters. I don't abuse augments or enhancements. I don't try to game the system in any way. I just use what is readily available in the manner for which it was intended. Trion can't nerf the gear because it's PvE gear. They can't segregate me and those like me into another queue when most of the time there are maybe 5-6 geared characters total between both factions queuing.

    With the exception of my weapons and some of the items I farmed out of CR, all of my gear is level 45 or lower. That means that anyone can be very near my gearing level by the middle of the bracket. There's nothing "unfair" about what I'm doing because there's nothing I do that others can't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    And the point remains...I'm 100% confident that you don't carry around an extra set of mediocre gear to swap in when your rogue goes up against low ranked players, so stop pretending level 50 is any different.
    this is exactly what i did in wow, i dropped my gear & only wore jewelry on lesser geared targets & i have vids to prove it

    so if r40s think they're too op for 50s pvp, how bout droppin some gear instead of picking on levelers & trying to justify that it's somehow a closer match

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlice View Post
    There would be no dilemma if players could only make the separation between Rift and WoW.
    10 million vs 250k, don't hold your breath

  15. #15
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    Imo a middle approach might make most people happy. Disable xp-lock up to lvl 29 so that the 10-19 and 20-29 pvp brackets wont be so harsh on new players, then enable xp-lock from 30+ so that people can twink in the 30-39 and 40-49 brackets.

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