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Thread: Should PvP be about gear?

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    Shield of Telara jaal's Avatar
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    Default Should PvP be about gear?

    So since hitting 50 i have yet to have a competetive fight in world PvP, but looking around i am yet to view a cometetive fight in world PvP, i only ever see one player smashing the other and this of course is due to the HUGE spectrum of where players are gear wise. The chance you are going to run into a player that is as the same point in gear progression as you is practically nil.

    Personally being a fairly casual player this means i wont ever be equipped with the best gear and as a result will never be able to enjoy world PvP. But a post on the PvP forms http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ut-twinks.html made me think. Shouls PvP really be about gear? or so dependant on it to the point a level 50 can mow through me as if i was a level 20?

    Personally i dont think competetive PvP should mean two months of getting streamed just to be midly competetive. Good World PvP has got to be one of the most enjoyable aspects that is missing from this game IMO. I would ruch rather PvP wasnt just another gear grind in the game and instead people would PvP to capture world objectives for fun.

    PvP should be about skill, not gear.
    Last edited by jaal; 02-29-2012 at 02:32 AM.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker Subnigurath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaal View Post
    So since hitting 50 i have yet to have a competetive fight in world PvP, but looking around i am yet to view a cometetive fight in world PvP, i only ever see one player smashing the other and this of course is due to the HUGE spectrum of where players are gear wise. The chance you are going to run into a player that is as the same point in gear progression as you is practically nil.

    Personally being a fairly casual player this means i wont ever be equipped with the best gear and as a result will never be able to enjoy world PvP. But a post on the PvP forms http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ut-twinks.html made me think. Shouls PvP really be about gear? or so dependant on it to the point a level 50 can mow through me as if i was a level 20?

    Personally i dont think competetive PvP should mean two months of getting streamed just to be midly competetive. Good World PvP has got to be one of the most enjoyable aspects that is missing from this game IMO. I would ruch rather PvP wasnt just another gear grind in the game and instead people would PvP to capture world objectives for fun.

    PvP should be about skill, not gear.
    pvp must be about gear to separate pvp and pve and viceversa.
    competitive pvp is at R40, so if you are a casual doesn´t matter if you´re pver o pvpr, you are a casual (just like me, i will take time to be r40 but i will be)
    Rift is fine as it is, i think if a player wants free purple stuff, he just got WoW as a alternative mmo.
    Pls don´t feel this like a troll reply is just my point of view

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subnigurath View Post
    pvp must be about gear to separate pvp and pve and viceversa.
    competitive pvp is at R40, so if you are a casual doesn´t matter if you´re pver o pvpr, you are a casual (just like me, i will take time to be r40 but i will be)
    Rift is fine as it is, i think if a player wants free purple stuff, he just got WoW as a alternative mmo.
    Pls don´t feel this like a troll reply is just my point of view
    The troll? it's a valid point, even though there is not alot of skill involved in rift as pretty much every scrub has set up 1-2 macros which will pretty much do everything for them - as said in my quote, its not the player that wears the gear, not the other way around.

    If you cannon't see that its completely out of proportion either comming back to the game or starting the game, only to sit for 2 months being litteraly stomped by P40 players because they do like 3x the damage to you, and take 50% less damage from your unbuffed attacks.
    The game is not enjoyable, even for a player that wants to get to p40 to be competetive, losing for 1 month, getting the next set of gear only to find out you are now placed in 25-40 brackets where you again will be utterly useless.
    It's very discouraging, and if they want new players and casual players to stay - the first guy really does have a point.

    I don't disagree that people that put more time into the game should have an advantage as this is a gear carrot grind game - but making it so that new people do not stand a living chance to fight back at all? I personally did 12 hours a day grinding warfronts, doing dailies etc. to just get to an acceptable level where I were not just a waste of space - it just doesn't seem to happen until you hit p40 with maxed out planar attunement.

    If any players are thinking about comming back, or new players want to start this is what you get throughout the game roughly:

    Leveling pvp is filled with twinks, it can be enjoyable though as you have a chance of fightning back at times. When you then hit 50 you are gonna be completely worthless, and if you are on a pvp server, doing the pvp dailies you will have to zerg it up or get ganked by some nolife p40 rouge sitting around waiting for people without gear, having every single consumable possible in the game.
    You get the first pvp set and think now it has to be better, but no you are still getting stomped because you do not get matched very often with the range you have.
    RIFT the game where the gear carries the player - not the other way around.

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    Ascendant LOveRH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaal View Post
    So since hitting 50 i have yet to have a competetive fight in world PvP, but looking around i am yet to view a cometetive fight in world PvP, i only ever see one player smashing the other and this of course is due to the HUGE spectrum of where players are gear wise. The chance you are going to run into a player that is as the same point in gear progression as you is practically nil.

    Personally being a fairly casual player this means i wont ever be equipped with the best gear and as a result will never be able to enjoy world PvP. But a post on the PvP forms http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ut-twinks.html made me think. Shouls PvP really be about gear? or so dependant on it to the point a level 50 can mow through me as if i was a level 20?

    Personally i dont think competetive PvP should mean two months of getting streamed just to be midly competetive. Good World PvP has got to be one of the most enjoyable aspects that is missing from this game IMO. I would ruch rather PvP wasnt just another gear grind in the game and instead people would PvP to capture world objectives for fun.

    PvP should be about skill, not gear.
    I stopped reading after "Personally being a fairly casual player..."

    I guess this is when i whip out, "L2play and suck it up".

  5. #5
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    If you're a casual and don't care about competitive pvp, then stay below Prestige Rank-40. You should just use whatever crafted gear you can find and have fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaal View Post
    PvP should be about skill, not gear.
    We need diferent DR's for each class, nerf healing in a 40% nerf damage in a 30% with something like that probably we can have a competitive and fun pvp game.
    Last edited by HUGEBUGOMGHELP; 02-29-2012 at 08:29 AM.

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    Ascendant Trisian's Avatar
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    If pvp wasn't about gear then players would simply choose which role they wish to fulfill out of the trinity and be assigned a generic template to perform the task. (guild wars is a good example of gearless pvp)

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    Rift Disciple Gordonfreman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HUGEBUGOMGHELP View Post
    We need diferent DR's for each class, nerf healing in a 40% nerf damage in a 30% with something like that probably we can have a competitive and fun pvp game.
    That would be highlarious if Valor reduced incoming damage from players and incoming heals from other players.

  9. #9
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    Also CC delay would be nice (this is what makes doble blinds, gouges and saps possible in WoW) its about a 0,15 safe time when you get cced where you can still performing abilitys.

  10. #10
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    Default Gotta Have Gear As A Reward

    Trion has bent over backwards to make it easier and easier for the casual players to get better PvP gear. With the addition of escalation weekends, pots for prestige and favor, and lowering the total overall favor/prestige requirements to advance in ranks, there isn't really much more Trion can do to make PvP casual friendly without handing everyone Conqueror gear on day one...but Rift isn't an FPS. PvP without incentive (i.e. gear) end ups being PvP with a low player population.

    Many of the players that made it to R6 and then R8 under the old system are miffed that Trion has made it so easy to get to R40. Trion did this, however, in response to the new reality of MMOs. There will not be another WoW where players play one game and one game only. There are many more casual players...so for a game to survive it must cater to those players.

    If you really like Rift and you are skilled, you can easily make R25 in a month of moderate PvP play. At R25 you are competitive. If you don't have the skills or interest in Rift PvP to do that then perhaps you should stick to PvE.


    Fizbang R40 Defiant Mage Seastone

  11. #11
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trisian View Post
    If pvp wasn't about gear then players would simply choose which role they wish to fulfill out of the trinity and be assigned a generic template to perform the task. (guild wars is a good example of gearless pvp)
    it's called even grounds where skill matters more than the gear you are wearing - I personally like that type of games as you get rid of all the macro spammers that are terrible but got handed a macro to make them mediocre and with the gear they appear as godmode.
    And I am inclined to say that people who does not like even grounds, are not truly competetive pvp'ers - all they want is easymode.
    RIFT the game where the gear carries the player - not the other way around.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Trisian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kogle View Post
    I am inclined to say that people who does not like even grounds, are not truly competetive pvp'ers - all they want is easymode.
    Players who want uneven ground are the ones who were smart enough to figure out an advantage.
    Everyone else is just a victim.
    Last edited by Trisian; 02-29-2012 at 11:40 AM.

  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Competitive PvP is just another style of play and one that many people enjoy, and it is true that it cannot really happen with gear in the equation.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Morvick's Avatar
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    I believe there should be a mode of gameplay where gear is "handed out", but more appropriately phrased, "standard issue". A competitive and optional mode of warfronts, more or less. PvP Rewards would be minimal in this mode of course, since it really wouldn't be right to progress your entire time through such a mode where Vets and Noobs have exactly the same killing potential.

    World PvP should be dependent on Gear, and that's an odd concession for me to make. Warfronts enter a greyer area... but if you want true competitiveness, Gear needs to be removed as a factor. Pit the players' skills against each-other, not their free time. Team synergy. Tactics. Things of that nature.

    I agree about the comment regarding people who deeply enjoy powerful gear: They don't want that gear to be on the level of others. They want that gear to steamroll the 90% of players who do not have it. My avid PvP friend put it simply, "I want to destroy noobs all day long. How can I do that without gear?" He views challenging PvP as offensive, believing that his 2+ years of time in the game should reward him with an "Easy Win" button when facing other players.

    I do not agree with his viewpoint, but I can understand trying to view PvP as more-chaotic PvE. I simply prefer the challenge of taking on someone else of equal opportunity as myself. There's a reason "even playing field" games are so popular, because you know that the only reason you won or lost is because of how well you could utilize the tools of the game to your advantage: dedication of time to practice and study over time to grinding.
    Last edited by Morvick; 02-29-2012 at 12:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    I also made other enhancements to certain aspects of the game for various reasons.

  15. #15
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trisian View Post
    Players who want uneven ground are the ones who were smart enough to figure out an advantage.
    Everyone else is just a victim.
    Yea it is rocket science getting to P40... ohwait..
    RIFT the game where the gear carries the player - not the other way around.

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