+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: Is it possible for a Rift type mmo to successfully do open loot pvp?

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    38

    Default Is it possible for a Rift type mmo to successfully do open loot pvp?

    UO did it, but thanks to WoW there are certain traits everybody expects of mmorpgs nowadays that conflict with the success of an "open loot pvp" system. Is it possible to work around those mmo necessities and produce a game with unrestricted world pvp where all items and gear can be looted by another player upon death, without failing as badly as Darkfall Online?

  2. #2
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    4,349

    Default

    No. MMOs are mainstream now. They weren't when people thought UO was the bee's knees. You have to remember that around the time of UO/EQ, etc, that whole genre of game was pretty much brand new. There were a lot of utopian ideas around what these games should involve (ie, if you're not in a group there's very little you can do, because hey, it's an MMO, and why would anyone play an MMO if they didn't want to group all the time?) Beating people over the head with penalties every time they died falls into the category of utopian ideas that serve only to restrict your market. Open world PvP as we see it in games like WoW and Rift is another one of those concepts that just doesn't work.

    So if you take an open world PvP mechanic like we see in Rift in its current form and say, "Okay, now we're going to add a mechanic that allows players to loot your gear and currency when you die," people are going to say, "Oh really? So now it's not even worth leaving town unless I can be assured that my zergball is bigger than the other team's zergball. Great. No thanks."

  3. #3
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,618

    Default

    It's not so much that WoW changed what everybody expects, it's that they showed the industry that tapping into the casual, easy access , "Don't take my stuffz, bro!!" demographic is super lucrative.

    Sure, what you lose is only a cluster of pixels on a computer screen, but tell that to the guy who just spent 6 hours getting that doodad you just looted off his body.

    Sure, if gear was super easy to get and replace, we might be able to get somewhere with this, but seeing how long it takes to grind gear in this game, well, people won't be too happy if it gets taken away.

    Most people don't want to have to go through the work to get something if someone else can just take it away from them. As a result, it's too late for Rift to go to an open loot system. They'd have to completely change the gearing system to make getting gear easier. They'd also have to ride out a shift in their customer base as the people who don't want their gear stolen leave and the people who want an open loot system come in.

    Edit: And what Licentia said. (darnit, I need to learn to type faster)
    Last edited by Meina; 02-26-2012 at 05:09 PM.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker Hobgoblin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Mortal online is actually doing ok but they have a small player base.

    I would love to see a no faction fully loot able server and I know many who agree. Doubt trion would do it.

    I loved uo, asherons darktide, and yes I tried darkfall but was too inventory management intensive for me.

    It's cool when most of your opponents wear only ok gear to not care about losing it... Really levels the playing field and skill becomes the deciding factor... And man fighting becomes very intense.

    Guilds really mean something in this environment sconce you have to protect each others backs and you make great friends doing it.

    One can only dream...
    Soak R7 Cleric
    0/11 Hammersmell

  5. #5
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    12,128

    Default

    It's not going to happen in this game. Whether I am actually certain it wont happen or not I am certain it would never fly with the general player-base. Which is why I am quite certain, it won't ever happen anyway.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara kuronese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by meina View Post
    it's not so much that wow changed what everybody expects, it's that they showed the industry that tapping into the casual, easy access , "don't take my stuffz, bro!!" demographic is super lucrative.
    ding ding ding

    On MMO break until someone decides to put out a game developed for PvP.
    On Deck:
    Jon Connor - Love Me Now
    Dir en grey - Hageshisa to kono mune no naka de karamitsuita shakunetsu no yami

  7. #7
    Ascendant Robes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,067

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killamajig View Post
    UO did it, but thanks to WoW there are certain traits everybody expects of mmorpgs nowadays that conflict with the success of an "open loot pvp" system. Is it possible to work around those mmo necessities and produce a game with unrestricted world pvp where all items and gear can be looted by another player upon death, without failing as badly as Darkfall Online?
    Darkfail didn't fail because of that, it failed because of the devs.

    The playerbase for it is there (mortal online, sitting spamming f5 trying to get a copy of darkfail when it launched) but its not rifts playerbase, as much as i love it (played darkfail since NA launched and still running for it) the majority of the people that play this would hate it. So i doubt it'll ever be added, or even considered by trion.

    You're best bet for that is wait until something comes along to finally kill darkfail before they get df2.0 out or when AV finally does get it done hop on it and pray that they don't **** it up again, seeing as tasos is finally being replaced it might have a chance.
    Last edited by Robes; 02-26-2012 at 06:31 PM.
    Teddro - Warrior - Seastone

    Synna - Rogue - Vigil

    Synna Stonecove/Invalid Target for all those darkfall people

  8. #8
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    351

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killamajig View Post
    UO did it, but thanks to WoW there are certain traits everybody expects of mmorpgs nowadays that conflict with the success of an "open loot pvp" system. Is it possible to work around those mmo necessities and produce a game with unrestricted world pvp where all items and gear can be looted by another player upon death, without failing as badly as Darkfall Online?
    Almost ALL of the early MMOs were open loot..

    Neocron
    UO
    Meridian59

    Problem is, people are sissies these days and would cry. These games are all about lewt grinding, they are essentially gear based mmos while the older ones were about the gameplay, fights, and skill. These days there is virtually no skill in these games, so they attract low-skilled players.

    I really miss the old days of MMOs.. They've essentially been ruined.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Charlice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    6,616

    Default

    EQ2 has open loot. But you can also deposit coin in the bank.

    Armor, coin, rares, anything .. anything at all, that is in your bags, and not attuned (soulbound) can be corpse looted.


    Den of Madness | Greybriar | Den of Badness | Derpwood

  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara Testercules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,189

    Default

    I played a game where you could select risk bonus for your carried items. You got an xp bonus for the value of the item that wasn't locked. People would carry stackable items that had high value. If you're killed in world pve or pvp you would have to either run back to your corpse and have your risked items looted, or sit there dead until someone came and rezzed you. I can't say that the latter was fun, but it was done a lot. The game was relatively small, but you'd have to wait a long time sometimes. If you died in pve, there's the chance no one will have noticed your corpse, so you'd be okay. That mechanic would not work that well in this game unless we had full access to what we wished to risk, and the ability to donate coins to our own bank. Nobody wants to lose 1k plat after getting ganked. That's just dumb.
    Wqrriqr: 207850 Defiants decapitated

    Old Videos: PVP1 & PVP2
    0/11 HK 1/1 GW2

  11. #11
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    5,760

    Default

    Some of my best memories from 13 years of MMOs was when I made mistakes..... at least when I was allowed too.

    Unfortunately niche rules, niche market.

    A special server with different rules could be added but even that would need the existing interested population. Adding it to a game that currently doesn't have it I think it would to hard to get the target audience to switch from whatever they are playing already.
    Last edited by spaceboots; 02-26-2012 at 08:45 PM.

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,177

    Default

    It could easily work but games would need to move away from the current itemization system where you have to spend tons of hours to get a high level item. If gear was more resource/crafted base where a set of gear takes some time to put together but not unbearably long. This sort of system also makes gear less valuable and getting better gear is a big "carrot" for a lot of players so the game would have to have good content to fall back on instead of Rift's gear progression style.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    414

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    No. MMOs are mainstream now. They weren't when people thought UO was the bee's knees. You have to remember that around the time of UO/EQ, etc, that whole genre of game was pretty much brand new. There were a lot of utopian ideas around what these games should involve (ie, if you're not in a group there's very little you can do, because hey, it's an MMO, and why would anyone play an MMO if they didn't want to group all the time?) Beating people over the head with penalties every time they died falls into the category of utopian ideas that serve only to restrict your market. Open world PvP as we see it in games like WoW and Rift is another one of those concepts that just doesn't work.

    So if you take an open world PvP mechanic like we see in Rift in its current form and say, "Okay, now we're going to add a mechanic that allows players to loot your gear and currency when you die," people are going to say, "Oh really? So now it's not even worth leaving town unless I can be assured that my zergball is bigger than the other team's zergball. Great. No thanks."

    You really think people wouldn't leave town? What planet are you from? I've played many games open loot and plenty of people left town - in fact nobody wanted to stay in town..

    Afraid to leave town because you could lose your pixels? Does the word care bear mean anything?

    The problem with some people today are just LOOT ******. You try to loot every possible thing insight and have a bank full of useless junk. Open loot provides risk vs reward. It makes people get better at PVP. In encourages GROUP PVP which is very scarce for the most part. If you want to keep your stuff, then you should stick to safe zones and dungeons.
    Last edited by Shadowboxerz; 02-26-2012 at 09:02 PM.

  14. #14
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    414

    Default

    You really think people wouldn't leave town? What planet are you from? I've played many games open loot and plenty of people left town - in fact nobody wanted to stay in town.. The pvp servers should be inventory loot at least, if players don't like it, go to a PVE server and form groups to roam the lands for plants and ores and keep your 2 cents out of the pvp stuff.

    Afraid to leave town because you could lose your pixels? On a PVP server I'm at a loss of words for all the people trying to form PVE groups and few (if any) are trying to form PVP groups. You make it open loot and I guarantee you that changes on PVP servers.

    The problem with some people today are just LOOT WHO*ES. You try to loot every possible thing insight and have a bank full of useless junk. Open loot provides risk vs reward. It makes people get better at PVP. If you don't want to PVP go play on a PVE server.. It also encourages GROUP PVP which is very scarce for the most part. If you want to keep your stuff, then you should stick to safe zones and dungeons and play on a PVE server. Not sure why Trion hasn't figured out that yet.. Ruleset should change.

    There aren't any zergballs in this game. 10-15 people is not a zergball. It's 2-3 measly groups. I've played games that 5 man team beat a 10 man team. Sometimes battles with 200 vs 75.. and guess what those 75 people won. Learn to PVP, learn to form Spec PVP groups, again don't want to? Stick to a PVE server. Simple.

  15. #15
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    241

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moebro View Post
    Almost ALL of the early MMOs were open loot..

    Neocron
    UO
    Meridian59

    Problem is, people are sissies these days and would cry. These games are all about lewt grinding, they are essentially gear based mmos while the older ones were about the gameplay, fights, and skill. These days there is virtually no skill in these games, so they attract low-skilled players.

    I really miss the old days of MMOs.. They've essentially been ruined.
    OH Meridian59 now that was pvp at its best ...hold.slash slash..blind..hold..slash slash acid touch ...dead ..loot the corpse from EVERYTHING!! EPIC. Frigging got my adrenaline pumping
    Last edited by Firebl@de; 02-26-2012 at 10:09 PM.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts