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Thread: Why are healers the best CC in the game?

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Why are healers the best CC in the game?

    Why is a single "good" cleric able to live through the dedicated attacks of 3 dps'ers indefinitely?

    This is something that witness more and more frequently, and I question why this is acceptable.

    Even Dominators can't keep 3 other people controlled as effectively as a "good" healer can.


    Is a 4:1 ratio of dps to healing really what Trion considers the standard of balance?


    I propose that healers shouldn't be able to target themselves for more than 25% of their own healing power.

    This will allow them to perform in a cross healing capacity, but not run rampant where they completely own the game.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Robes's Avatar
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    Make healers not be able to heal? I've seen a lot of people that hinted this but none that came right out and said it.
    Teddro - Warrior - Seastone

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    Ascendant Charlice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knutplate View Post
    Why is a single "good" cleric able to live through the dedicated attacks of 3 dps'ers indefinitely?

    Thanks.
    The bad ones are easy to kill. Just mark them, and whine about the good ones in forums.


    Den of Madness | Greybriar | Den of Badness | Derpwood

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    Plane Walker
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    I'm a rogue and EVEN I know this is a ridiculous idea.

    The answer is to adjust cool downs times and/or make ana more potent. That heal debuff is a joke. A complete block for 30 seconds sounds about right, and it should only be the ability of just ONE class.. An assassin makes sense to have this.

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    Every time I see one of these complaints saying, "I see <x> people focusing one healer and they still didn't die!" I don't think, "Wow, healers are really OP," I think, "Wow, you came across <x> really mediocre players."

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    Every time I see one of these complaints saying, "I see <x> people focusing one healer and they still didn't die!" I don't think, "Wow, healers are really OP," I think, "Wow, you came across <x> really mediocre players."
    Well, that's kind of my point.

    Why are healers the only ones that are completely self sufficient?

    Doesn't it make sense that they should be bound by support too?


    Am I mediocre, bad, terribad, or whatever fotm cliche you want to call it? Perhaps.

    But the situation I highlighted is more the rule than the exception.

    How do you justify that?

  7. #7
    Ascendant Robes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knutplate View Post
    Well, that's kind of my point.

    Why are healers the only ones that are completely self sufficient?

    Doesn't it make sense that they should be bound by support too?


    Am I mediocre, bad, terribad, or whatever fotm cliche you want to call it? Perhaps.

    But the situation I highlighted is more the rule than the exception.

    How do you justify that?
    You can't nerf the actual good players (not fotm'ers), they're going to stand out from the rest no matter what, it's as simple as that.
    Teddro - Warrior - Seastone

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knutplate View Post
    Well, that's kind of my point.

    Why are healers the only ones that are completely self sufficient?

    Doesn't it make sense that they should be bound by support too?
    No, it doesn't, because unless your team is fully awful, healers are the first players targeted and killed. They have to have a measure of survivability that reflects both that particular aspect of warfronts, but also their stunning lack of offense in a pure healing role.

    Every calling in the game has tools that they can use effectively to counter healers to some extent, whether it's a healing debuff, mana drains, silences, interrupts, purges...whatever. The tools are there. The problem when you play in PUGs is that people see a healer and their first instinct is to mash all the CC they can muster when the healer is at full health, put the healer on DR immunity, and then cry that they've got nothing left to shut the healer down when they're low on life and most susceptible to being killed.

    It's not uncommon for me to go into a warfront and come across a player who, regardless of gear, is just an easy kill. High on this list seem to be backpedaling rogues with odd ranged builds. So when I descend on one of these players and flatten them while taking hardly any damage because I'm at their back most of the time, does that make me OP?

    And what about those times I come across a pair of ranged rogues, and one is backpedaling while I dance around behind them and carve them up and I see the other one so I blow a defensive CD and watch all of their otherwise bursty attacks get parried? I finish the first rogue, the second one blew all his offensive CDs on parries, doesn't use any defensive CDs to open a gap, and he dies next and I toddle off to my next victim with > 60% HP because I had no heals at all. Does that make me OP?

    That sort of scenario plays out a lot. And the reason I say gear is not an issue is because these people aren't using the tools they have in their souls that would have allowed them to create a gap, preserve a gap, and whittle me to nothing. So what happens if they come here and start a thread saying warriors are OP because two rogues couldn't kill one?

    Two rogues doing what?

    Clerics are OP because three players couldn't kill one. Three players doing what?

    Are you interrupting long casts, and if so, are you doing it at the end of the cast bar or as soon as you see it? Are you stripping buffs/HoTs? Are you saving stuns and silences for when they're low on health? Are you making the best offensive use of your character (ie. are you using abilities in a sequence that makes sense to maximize your damage output)?

    Because if you're not doing these things, and the other people smacking away at the cleric aren't doing these things, it's not a cleric issue. It's a skill issue related to the people attacking the cleric, Trion can't buff skill, and they can't tune around bad.
    Last edited by Licentia; 02-26-2012 at 06:15 PM.

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Nobody wants to believe that they're just not good at a video game. I know it's strange, but it's true. It must be the game's fault they're not doing well.

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by P1NCUSH1ON View Post
    Nobody wants to believe that they're just not good at a video game. I know it's strange, but it's true. It must be the game's fault they're not doing well.
    I suck. There.


    The burden is definitely on the DPS to be "superb" in order to defeat a mediocre healer.

    That's good?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knutplate View Post
    I suck. There.


    The burden is definitely on the DPS to be "superb" in order to defeat a mediocre healer.

    That's good?
    They don't have to be superb, they just have to treat it like what it is: an encounter with a healer controlled by another player in PvP, not a quest mob.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    If it makes you feel better, it's pretty hard being a healer and staying alive when good DPS players are hitting me. It is much harder when I'm mediocre (on a good day) at PVPing anyway.

    Also, and I've checked my combat logs for this one, Guardians on my battlegroup are very good at focusing. I'm usually focused by 4+ people. I almost never get hit by just one or two people, and I die a lot.
    Last edited by P1NCUSH1ON; 02-26-2012 at 07:00 PM. Reason: Confusing Grammar

  13. #13
    Ascendant Trisian's Avatar
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    As soon as my twink cleric hit 35 and got into some better gear, I'm having more fun topping damage taken rather than healing done. Now onwards to 39 when I can start to dabble in dps.

  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knutplate View Post
    I suck. There.


    The burden is definitely on the DPS to be "superb" in order to defeat a mediocre healer.

    That's good?
    No, they have to be good to defeat a good healer.

  15. #15
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    Your argument rests upon the definition of a good healer as a form of Crowd Control. In terms of keeping players off of objectives, the argument may hold some weight, but in terms of actual battle, living and dying, there's nothing "CC" about healing.

    Any modicum of teamwork and decent DPS can focus down a healer and/or distract the healer long enough to focus down its DPS, effectively making the healer a cannon with no fuse.

    Furthermore, in regards to keeping players off of objectives, if that is the argument you're going for - I hope it is because it's the only argument you have - many other builds and classes can accomplish this (see: stealth rogues, tank warriors, etc.).

    That said, I wonder if you are even capable of placing context behind your complaint. This particular comment, for example:
    Quote Originally Posted by Knutplate View Post
    Why is a single "good" cleric able to live through the dedicated attacks of 3 dps'ers indefinitely?
    Has zero context and is nothing but hyperbole. Are these DPS'ers geared? Just how dedicated are their attacks? Are any of them attempting to CC/drain/disable the healer? Is there another healer providing heals to the healer that is being attacked, i.e. crosshealing? Just how do you define indefinite? Are these same DPS'ers currently attacking this same healer as we speak in an endless attempt to kill him or her?

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