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Thread: EXP Lock has killed low level PVP

  1. #31
    Ascendant nemecis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traciatim View Post
    Twinks wouldn't bother anymore, they do it to roll newbs and feel good about themselves, not for a challenge.
    Wasn't aware you were the democratically elected Twink Embassador, at least we know who to send our QQ letters to directly now!

  2. #32
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traciatim View Post
    Twinks wouldn't bother anymore, they do it to roll newbs and feel good about themselves, not for a challenge.
    They wouldn't bother because queue times would be atrocious.

    For years now I've heard the same rhetoric about twinks wanting to only roll "noobs". I can tell you from experience that, while this might be true for some, it is not true for others. I'll say it again, sweeping generalizations are never accurate.

    Back in WoW, during the height of the twink era, the majority of the twinks on my server / battlegroup were in it for the competition. In fact, several of the twink guilds had strict no farming policies. We'd go out of our way to arrange fight full on, twink vs twink premade matches. There were also many twink sponsored (and player tracked) twink arena ladders. These are not the activities of people looking to "roll noobs".

    We even went so far as to create threads on the forums to call out twinks that exploited, went out of their way to be buttheads and, in general exhibited poor sportmanship. We actually hammered one guild so hard they ended up disbanding.

    Now, am I saying that all twinks are angels? Hells no. The twink community has it's fair share of idiots and buttheads, just like any other segment of the population. What I am saying is that you cannot cover all twinks, or any group of people, with such a broad statement.

    tl;dr: You're spouting stereotypes and rhetoric. Knock it off. You're smarter than that.
    Last edited by Meina; 02-23-2012 at 01:01 PM.

  3. #33
    Ascendant Trisian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traciatim View Post
    Twinks wouldn't bother anymore, they do it to roll newbs and feel good about themselves, not for a challenge.
    FALSE

    Every single one of my Twinks (or twinks in progress) are healers/support because;

    1. I enjoy the challenge of how long I can last vs X amount of players.
    2. I enjoy when people send me whispers like "OMG that was like 7 vs 2, amazing heals man".
    3. I enjoy trolling other Twinks who expect to 1 shot me or others on my team.

  4. #34
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trisian View Post
    FALSE

    Every single one of my Twinks (or twinks in progress) are healers/support because;

    1. I enjoy the challenge of how long I can last vs X amount of players.
    2. I enjoy when people send me whispers like "OMG that was like 7 vs 2, amazing heals man".
    3. I enjoy trolling other Twinks who expect to 1 shot me or others on my team.
    People always seem to forget about healing and support twinks when they spout their blanket "They just wanna pwn noobs lol" statements.

  5. #35
    Rift Disciple Jainelle's Avatar
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    I'll bite into this. Yes, I am twinking.

    I have 2 twinks so far and am having a blast with them. My favorite, Squeak, isn't even fully twinked out yet. I didn't go with epic augments for all the crafted gear I could get. I have a couple of the event items, not all of them. I don't have complete BiS yet and not sure if I will get the remaining pieces. I do run with whetstones, armor plating, and blood thirty on. I have farmed for rift consumables a lot too.

    I find myself focusing on other twinks. I like the fights with them. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. Both ways are fun....admittedly, winning is more fun.

    The fresh players that attack me with missing or starter gear don't get one shot. It's usually a full combo point load with a finisher unless there are others focusing on them too. I will fully admit seeing another twink coming my way and will finish off an easy target to get blood thirsty rolling for the harder fight but that does not mean I farm the freshies exclusively.

    Other twinks, take much more effort...and it's a blast. I have gotten to know a few of the others in my bracket that are twinking. Sometimes they are on my side, and sometimes they are on the opposite side. I cut them no slack and expect no less from them.

    With that being said, is this the only pvp that I participate in? No. I have a Rank 31 healing cleric that I use and am working on my Rank 14 rogue which is now my main and was mostly for PVE. Do I have a maxed rank toon in the 50 bracket? Not yet but will get there eventually. Do I think my baby toons are special snowflakes who own in their bracket? No as they get killed a lot. Is it merely another form of fun? Heck ya!

    Whenever I get on the baby toons, it's usually for a couple of hours max. I don't spend all day in the warfronts on those toons but it's a nice change to the PA grind on the main. And yes, it is crazy easy to get half-assed decent gear for a baby toon with out spending a ton of plat on them.

    Would I still queue up if my twink was moved to a twink only queue? Absolutely!!

  6. #36
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemecis View Post
    As for the "1-shot", doesn't happen in 50, doesn't happen in 10-49. Many perceive they've been 1-shotted, when in reality an examination of the combat log reveals a different scenario I'd wagger.
    Okay, maybe not a one-shot, but I'll admit that my rogue was able to kill anyone I tried for within about 3 seconds of unstealthing. While it required four attacks, I'm sure there are quite a few people who died to that opener who thought 'omg one-shot!' afterwards.

    To be fair though, I did put a rather obsessive amount of effort into making the absolute most BiS rogue possible for the 39 bracket. It was fun.

  7. #37
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by jca View Post
    With the exception of 10-19, it's not a gear gap, it's a skill/experience gap that's being seen.
    This is a great point. It's correlative that the people who are likely to twink a character and stop xp are also likely to have a good deal of experience, and are probably much more capable of beating the inexperienced even if they have green gear. The less experienced players really have no reason to stop xp and also have fewer resources to be able to twink. It just goes hand in hand that the people who twink are also probably more skilled players to begin with. I can easily imagine an unskilled player in incredible gear getting owned by a greatly skilled player in crappy gear. I've literally seen this happen in several other games, and it's probably the same here. Not always the case, of course, but certainly relevant to this issue.

    The occasional twink here and there in matches seems fine to me. The real problem, as mentioned by a few posters, is when there are several twinks on a team, and it's especially horrible when they cluster together. A small group of twinks can, in fact, annihilate a larger group of moderately skilled but ungeared players. Then again, this is really the nature of high end pvp in most of the games I've played. So many groups and players have been accused over the years, and occasionally even banned, for supposedly hacking, exploiting, or cheating in some other way simply because they are phenomenally good players and groups with top-notch gear.

    I find the moral to be rather simple, as some other people have stated: get used to other people being better than you, and try to get better at playing your class. My grandfather was fond of saying that you don't learn anything by winning. He would absolutely clobber me in chess. This is the only reason, as I see it, that I'm any good at chess at all. It requires the right attitude, of course, and in MMOs it also happens to require that you don't lose every freakin match. But when you win against people who are better than you, you feel pretty damn proud of yerself, and rightfully so. I say just take it as it comes, read about what other, more skilled people are saying about the class you're playing, use practice dummies in the capitol cities to test out what your skill rotations should look like in different imaginary scenarios, play yer heart out in scenarios, and don't give up. If you practice this throughout the pre-50 levels you'll probably be pretty well set to compete in end-game. And that's really the whole point of lower level pvp, isn't it?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jainelle View Post
    I find myself focusing on other twinks. I like the fights with them. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. Both ways are fun....admittedly, winning is more fun.

    Other twinks take much more effort...and it's a blast. I have gotten to know a few of the others in my bracket that are twinking. Sometimes they are on my side, and sometimes they are on the opposite side. I cut them no slack and expect no less from them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jainelle View Post
    Would I still queue up if my twink was moved to a twink only queue? Absolutely!!
    This is huge. Yes. It would be fantastic if we had the option to queue up in an "Expert" warfront much like dungeons. I guess the above point, and some of those that others were getting to, is being forced to queue only with other twinks, which would certainly make it better for the average players in warfronts than merely making it optional.

  9. #39
    Plane Touched
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    Great .... Just finished three black gardens with my level 15 alt. ran into a twink team that just ran over the entire wf... over and over and over again.. Not fair , not fun, and not a good idea.

    I have no idea why Trion would want to so utterly destroy pvp for the lower levels. Everyone on our team by the end was ranting and very upset. What is fun about getting farmed by a twink team? Even WOW only lets twinks fight twinks... and they should do that here.. but then, I don't think that Trion cares anymore about how the players feel.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinnamontoast View Post
    Great .... Just finished three black gardens with my level 15 alt. ran into a twink team that just ran over the entire wf... over and over and over again.. Not fair , not fun, and not a good idea.

    I have no idea why Trion would want to so utterly destroy pvp for the lower levels. Everyone on our team by the end was ranting and very upset. What is fun about getting farmed by a twink team? Even WOW only lets twinks fight twinks... and they should do that here.. but then, I don't think that Trion cares anymore about how the players feel.
    As more twinks decide to group up, you'll experience this in more brackets as well. The frustration doesn't stop.

    One, two, even three twinks by themselves aren't a big deal, but it's the ones who work together to dominate entire warfronts for hours and hours and hours on end, that I think are the problem.

    At that scale, it's hard for anyone to deny that it severely detracts from the experience from the average player, whom probably forms the majority of Trion's subscription base. It's no fun when your team can't score a single kill. It's no fun when your team is forced to camp inside the spawn.

    I see the arguments for lock-exp from more.. amiable twinks, on this thread, and I am beginning to understand them. However, I think that the opportunity for twinks to make pre-mades and faceroll the other side with no competition for hours and hours on end is broken... Therefore, I think that a separate "expert Warfront" that lock-expers are limited to(but other players can join if they wish) is necessary.

    Twinking is a player's playstyle and choice, I get it. It should be preserved but segregated, so it won't detract from the experience of the majority in the MMO.

    Regardless of whether you feel it's "carebear" or not, if the actions of the few seriously detract from the experience of the majority, it is NOT acceptable -- especially if Trion expects to foster player loyalty to their product, in a very transient industry.
    Last edited by Serpx; 02-24-2012 at 02:04 AM.

  11. #41
    jca
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    I would be absolutely thrilled with some sort of separate "expert" warfronts for the lower levels. My concern is queue times just like everybody else's, but if those work out ok, I think it would be great.

    On my twinks (I really hate that designation btw) I ALWAYS look out for and go after other players I know to be twinks. The reason is very simple: I know they're coming for me as well and if I ignore them, I'm gonna get blown up very quickly.

    I think where there might be an issue is when the distribution of level-locked toons heavily favors one side over the other. If half on one team are locked and the other team has one locked toon, it's gonna be a slaughter in most cases. If they're relatively even, then I don't see how that hurts unlocked toons. The twinks will basically cancel each other out and the unlocked get some experience playing with better players while not getting steam rolled by them.

  12. #42
    Plane Walker The Witchking's Avatar
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    Twinks gave life to lower level warfronts, they were super dead before 1.7

    Those calling for twinks to be separated clearly do not understand how few players will remain for both parties. The two must coexist because without, the queues are too slow and the brackets will die anyway

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  13. #43
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    So I'm a new player and have been mainly leveling up via PvP as a Mage, now lvl 42. Here is what I see...

    The lvl 10-19 bracket is probably the worst bracket to PvP since there are a lot of twinks and they just faceroll all day long re-queuing. It's just sad, as a new player, I was getting tired of getting facerolled. Good thing that I was a mage, I usually do some good damage before I go down. The close ranged classes probably have it the worst against twinks.

    Now after this bracket, I was thinking that I wasn't going to see a lot of twinks, but boy was I wrong. There are twinks in every single bracket, even 49. I can't honestly see why you guys want twink at any level bracket the way PvP is now. Is it really that fun owning players by gear and experience?

    I think twinking is just dumb in PvP the way it is now, they should separate the twinks from non-twinks. I'm sure you're not going to mind the queue time since you're going to face a twink team instead of gearless noobs.

  14. #44
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    I would like to add another important twink experience I came across. For the past two days, I've been teamed up with a rouge and we won many of the matches, but some of these games were quite boring I'd say. The first match, the twink goes killing the other team since they had no twinks. Then the second and third match, the other team refused to play, letting us win without a fight. This was in the library where you pickup the vessels.

    I also happened to be in games where my team had no twinks and they just gave up half-way most of the time.

  15. #45
    Plane Touched
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    I must say I have done a 180 about twinking. I believe twinking is nearly mandatory if you want to develop your PVP skill. I now know for sure that twinking is the way to go. I mean it just brings out all of my skill and lets me know how good I really am. Heck when I'm putting out 40K-60K+ heals in almost every Black Garden & Library on my 19 Cleric (still working on geting 100K in a match), I know I'm good....It's just a shame I didn't realize this before twinking was an option. You know that reminds me a bit of level 50. I mean I was a total scrub at level 50 until around Rank 6 (whatever rank that is nowdays), and then I just suddenly started developing massive skill in PVP. I really don't even remember what it is I changed in my build or playstyle when I hit rank 6, but whatever skill I suddenly learned it was really made me so much better of a player.

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