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Thread: 11/15 rogues in a wf

  1. #16
    Banned Shadowprison's Avatar
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    Rogue will always be the most popular class in any MMO that has them, especially when the ranger archetype is tied into that as well.

    MMOs rarely get the rogue class right, so those that have it will have players flocking to rogues in abundance.



    Guess what class I'll be when Gw2 comes around?

    Thief (Rogue).
    Last edited by Shadowprison; 02-19-2012 at 10:07 AM.

  2. #17
    Champion Bluntmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redrox View Post
    No not a def I'm a gaurd. Just seeing a growing trend of more then 50% of the team being rogues in warfronts and its starting to get very annoying. You can always count on a rogue to be hiding while you are dying. Its the advantage of being a stealth class is you also get to be a panzy and pick only fights you will win.l
    Increase the cost of fanout for one, for 2 take away perma-stealth and revert back to having to reapply stealth after so many seconds and you have better balance in class representation in wfs.
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  3. #18
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluntmaster View Post
    Increase the cost of fanout for one, for 2 take away perma-stealth and revert back to having to reapply stealth after so many seconds and you have better balance in class representation in wfs.
    These are def not major culprits of rogue awesomeness in WFs.
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  4. #19
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    Rogues are the only class where a team can have half or more of and still roll other teams. Its nearly impossible to get to healers in a rogue heavy team. They stand behind a battery of archers healing away. Anyone that charges the archers gets focused down.

  5. #20
    Ascendant Vyxagallanxchi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluntmaster View Post
    take away perma-stealth and revert back to having to reapply stealth after so many seconds and you have better balance in class representation in wfs.
    Uhhhh... wut? Stealth in warfronts being an issue? Stealth sucks in warfronts since they're generally AoE spamhappyfests. Sins don't exactly do much in warfronts besides get stomped on.

    The main issue here is that people like to play rogues more than other classes in general and so they hold a greater slice of the population pie. Even back in 1.4, when rogues were considered to be at the bottom of the PvP barrel, warfronts had a large number of rogue participants.

    Rogues are a stereotypical PvP class/role/character/whatever. Stereotypes are based on something that at one point or another was seen as factual by the general majority. Therefore, it is not a outrageous consideration that rogues would constitute large numbers of players on warfront teams.
    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    Think of a 30 meter circle around all ranged dps rogues and mages. Ranged dps can stand in the back line and focus fire targets without worrying about mobility and most forms of cc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    Sounds like an excellent plan for your healers to follow as well, as they have an even longer range on their heals.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuuli View Post
    I play rogue not to fan spam, but for mobility and both melee and range when I chose to do so. Or speed running chasing down another runner. I need the speed to get my adrenaline going.
    Rogues can jump all over the map all the time, that needs to be nerfed.
    but i understand your point maybe they can put a significant damage reduction on rogue next attack after using shadowsteps blinks etc.

  7. #22
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HUGEBUGOMGHELP View Post
    Rogues can jump all over the map all the time, that needs to be nerfed.
    It's like we need something where marksmen lose up to 30% of their potential damage if they jump around all over and dart spot to spot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    It's like we need something where marksmen lose up to 30% of their potential damage if they jump around all over and dart spot to spot.
    It must be comparable to a mages 100% loss of potential!

    *slams his gavel* I DEMAND EQUAL NERFING!

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    It's like we need something where marksmen lose up to 30% of their potential damage if they jump around all over and dart spot to spot.
    I've always been confused as to why a class / build with a longer range than ALL other classes should also get decent damage and so many speed buffs. I understand the kite, and I understand that against a really good player a kiter has to be exceptional. What I don't understand is why the class has the damage it has and still ridiculously good mobility. Even mages have to be still to pump out the numbers. And they have nowhere near the range (and yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus and 5 meters is a LOT).

    I don't really know what the answer is - but the versatility of the class, combined with survivability and large damage and burst is very hard to balance. Too many positives, not enough negatives to the class.

    The only two things that I feel bad about for rogues are sab and bard - bard is simply far too dependent on situation and DPS (which it does pretty poorly) to be very well balanced. Watching a bard fight is like watching a welterweight fight a heavyweight. He gets his licks in, but every hit he takes inexorably pushes him closer to the end.

    I don't play one (well, I do, but only to level 40). I personally hate the invisibility mechanic - stealth is NOT invisibility. I do think that the class is very hard to balance because it can do too many things in too many ways. I can't think of any other class in any game that has the versatility of the rogue in Rift.
    Last edited by astrocanis; 02-19-2012 at 03:24 PM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by astrocanis View Post
    I've always been confused as to why a class / build with a longer range than ALL other classes should also get decent damage and so many speed buffs. I understand the kite, and I understand that against a really good player a kiter has to be exceptional. What I don't understand is why the class has the damage it has and still ridiculously good mobility. Even mages have to be still to pump out the numbers. And they have nowhere near the range (and yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus and 5 meters is a LOT).

    I don't really know what the answer is - but the versatility of the class, combined with survivability and large damage and burst is very hard to balance. Too many positives, not enough negatives to the class.
    I have to agree. My first two PvP characters were rogues, I did my bit as MM in warfronts when Eradicate spam and being obnoxious with the guerrilla tactics was really all we had, but I think they're maybe a little too busty for all the tricks they have at their disposal. MM have all the mobility they need to be astounding kiters, and all the burst potential they need so that they don't have to kite.

    The only two things that I feel bad about for rogues are sab and bard - bard is simply far too dependent on situation and DPS (which it does pretty poorly) to be very well balanced. Watching a bard fight is like watching a welterweight fight a heavyweight. He gets his licks in, but every hit he takes inexorably pushes him closer to the end.
    Bard has its utility in warfronts, but people who try to play it like a healer usually wind up disappointed because the mechanics just don't work very well in that capacity.

    I don't play one (well, I do, but only to level 40). I personally hate the invisibility mechanic - stealth is NOT invisibility. I do think that the class is very hard to balance because it can do too many things in too many ways. I can't think of any other class in any game that has the versatility of the rogue in Rift.
    Stealth is already heavily restricted. It's obnoxious, but there's nothing OP about it. I haven't taken my rogue into a warfront in some time, but I've been on the receiving end of assassin nastiness on my other characters plenty of times. A single assassin can be dangerous but not overly so. It's when you get 2-3 of them roaming in stealthed packs that it gets dangerous, but so are three warriors running a focus train.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    ... they're maybe a little too busty for all the tricks they have at their disposal.
    that's my kind of rogue...

    I do think the removal of the rogue pvp soul helped a bit as they are immune nowhere near so much as they used to be..

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by astrocanis View Post
    I don't play one (well, I do, but only to level 40). I personally hate the invisibility mechanic - stealth is NOT invisibility.
    Quite, it amazes me some games don't get that invisibilty + huge initial burst + lots of CC is simply a ridiculously broken OP setup. The fact that games like Rift then add to that by giving rogues an in-combat stealth is an absolute joke.

    Not so much in WF, but in open world PvP. It also results in a class that is basically impossible to balance and usually flits between being OP and being able to kill people too easily, with little chance of them being able to fightback or it is UP and rendered useless as it has no sustained damage.

    Some of the more PvP orientated games seem to get this is terrible game design, they either give everyone limited stealth (note not invisibility) like in Eve or Darkfall, or they don't give huge burst as with the full out stealth ships in Eve (which are still less stealth than rogues due to gates/bubbles, yet with low end damage in terms of Eve ships) or how they are going with Thieves in GW2.
    Last edited by Flimble; 02-19-2012 at 07:33 PM.

  13. #28
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    I really enjoyed EVE's idea of stealth, as well as healing. You can stealth, but you're going to be very fragile and probably not hit very hard. You can heal like a champ, but you can't heal yourself at all.

    It promotes intelligence gathering and teamwork, rather than blind button spamming.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxagallanxchi View Post
    Uhhhh... wut? Stealth in warfronts being an issue? Stealth sucks in warfronts since they're generally AoE spamhappyfests. Sins don't exactly do much in warfronts besides get stomped on.

    The main issue here is that people like to play rogues more than other classes in general and so they hold a greater slice of the population pie. Even back in 1.4, when rogues were considered to be at the bottom of the PvP barrel, warfronts had a large number of rogue participants.

    Rogues are a stereotypical PvP class/role/character/whatever. Stereotypes are based on something that at one point or another was seen as factual by the general majority. Therefore, it is not a outrageous consideration that rogues would constitute large numbers of players on warfront teams.
    This is the best response so far. Assassin rogues in rift are probably the most fragile rogues of any mmo (at least in my experience). No cloak of shadows, no shadowstep (just a hilariously long cd blink), no spell interrupting. WTF. Yes, massive burst while stun locking but once out of stealth, its all over for Sins. I mean come on, even the diminishing returns are nothing but bad news for rogues. ONE incapacitate before they go immune? ONE hamstring before going immune? Ugh.

  15. #30
    General of Telara Nemrud's Avatar
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    Any gaming company who wants good business does it. Choose a class and keep it OP for a month or two. Then choose other & do the same.

    It's the way the business works for new generation dumbed down MMOs.

    Looks like it's not only MMOs which are dumbed down, because we fall for it everytime.

    Wait it out or play a rogue. Soon it'll be mage, cleric, maybe even warrior. Actually build one of each calling so you can get the most out of the fotm strategy.
    Nemrud@Zaviel Imperium
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