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Thread: Defiant Mercs tried to lose WFs on purpose

  1. #61
    Ascendant Charlice's Avatar
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    I am still yet to witness this behaviour.

    If it is really happening report them.


    Den of Madness | Greybriar | Den of Badness | Derpwood

  2. #62
    Soulwalker
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    kinda sad when ppl are lame...

    I would camp my own Mom if I saw her in a WF.
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  3. #63
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorMelchett View Post
    And this right here is the problem, the merc system is hindering the enjoyment of the game for a lot of people because they don't want to use it and don't like it.
    There is a difference between disliking something provided to you in the game, and then taking that dislike out on other people.
    One is simply having a difference in preference, the other is taking action against others.

    So the problem lays with the person who dislikes the system, not the system itself.
    "I don't like blue! I want red! I am going to toss the rest of the crayons in the garbage so NO ONE can have fun because IM not having fun."
    Sound's like a social problem to me.

    The solution? Growing up.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorMelchett View Post
    snip[
    Um, so what?
    They're impeding the enjoyment of the game for other people.
    Trying to make a point? Is that the excuse?

    " I don't get what I want, so I am going to make other people miserable."
    Nonsense. People deserve to get banned for doing such a thing.
    Last edited by Aguni; 02-14-2012 at 02:29 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    There is a difference between disliking something provided to you in the game, and then taking that dislike out on other people.
    One is simply having a difference in preference, the other is taking action against others.

    So the problem lays with the person who dislikes the system, not the system itself.
    "I don't like blue! I want red! I am going to toss the rest of the crayons in the garbage so NO ONE can have fun because IM not having fun."
    Sound's like a social problem to me.

    The solution? Growing up.


    Um, so what?
    They're impeding the enjoyment of the game for other people.
    Trying to make a point? Is that the excuse?

    " I don't get what I want, so I am going to make other people miserable."
    Nonsense. People deserve to get banned for doing such a thing.
    Looking at it from the other point of view, you could say the same things about those who want the merc system as well..."I don't want 5 minute queue times, I want 30 second queue times, so I'm going to toss the rest of the crayons in the trash so NO ONE can have fun because I'm not having fun."

    I would keep the 5 minute queue times and my faction vs faction game that it's been for a year over 30 second queue times and free for all any day of the week. There are many who agree with me. Some of us hate it, but play it anyway. Some of us play half heartedly, some us don't play and sit at spawn, some of us don't play and take the 15 minute lockout, some of us actively try to sabotage the other side, some of us just run around and offer ourselves up as free favor.

    There are also many who don't agree with me and would prefer 30 second queue times and don't care if it's faction vs faction or ffa. I respect those people's opinions, don't wish them hardship, and am more than happy to come up with a solution that makes both sides happy.

    The thing is, we can make everyone happy by making it optional. And there are ways to do it that will still prevent sync queuing by premades, and not significantly increase queue times. All you have to do is lockout the merc leaving the instance to that instance only, not to any other warfront or other instance of that warfront.

    I don't understand what the opposition is here on this. You get rid of the vast majority of any "griefers" if that's the way you feel about us, and you get to keep what it is you want out of the system. Making it optional is win/win. Why all the hate?

  5. #65
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    Why did you completely ignore my statement and simply repeat yourself?
    You have yet to refute my statement regarding genre.
    You essentially ignored my statement that the genre does not define whether or not factions are ignored.
    I did not ignore your statement. In fact, I agreed with you. The genre does not control whether or not factions are ignored.

    However, again, in general, without naming specific games, each genre tends to follow a specific pattern. MMORPG's generally have some form of faction based play while, again in general FPS's do not.

    Correlation=/=causation.
    We're not talking cause and effect here. We're talking about the correlation, call it a loose correlation if makes you feel better, between a factionless MMO, which would usually have factions, and an FPS, which usually would not have factions.

    An FPS isn't anymore likely to ignore factions as an MMO.

    So no, the comparison does not hold up simply because of the fact that there are many FPS that follow factions.
    There are MMO's such as GW that plan to ignore factions as does Istaria. Simply because there is NOTHING that states that a FPS is defined by ignoring factions.
    Again, we're not talking about a specific game. We're talking about the genres in the broadest sense.
    There are far fewer faction based FPS's then there are factionless FPS's. As a result, it is safe to say that FPS's, in general, ignore factions.

    On the other side of the coin, there are far more faction based MMO's than non-faction based MMO's. So, generally speaking, MMO's are a lot more faction based than an FPS.

    In short, due to trends in the games, an MMO is more likely to be faction based while a FPS will not be faction based.

    I'm not sure how many ways I can say this before I get my point across. Honestly, if you don't understand what I'm trying to say by now, you probably never will. I dunno, maybe I'm just not expressing my thoughts well enough. If anyone else wants to jump in, be my guest.
    Last edited by Meina; 02-14-2012 at 03:12 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorkin View Post
    Looking at it from the other point of view, you could say the same things about those who want the merc system as well..."I don't want 5 minute queue times, I want 30 second queue times, so I'm going to toss the rest of the crayons in the trash so NO ONE can have fun because I'm not having fun."
    So you're saying that there are people who actually enjoy longer queue times? That's...well, hey...there are people who enjoy eating paste, too. Different strokes, as it were.

    I would keep the 5 minute queue times and my faction vs faction game that it's been for a year over 30 second queue times and free for all any day of the week. There are many who agree with me. Some of us hate it, but play it anyway. Some of us play half heartedly, some us don't play and sit at spawn, some of us don't play and take the 15 minute lockout, some of us actively try to sabotage the other side, some of us just run around and offer ourselves up as free favor.
    Then maybe "some of you" should just stop queuing for a while until you can learn to be grown-ups, ya? My guess is that the number of people sulking and choosing not to queue would be greatly overshadowed by the number of people queuing more often because they love the fast queues, but that's just a guess.

    There are also many who don't agree with me and would prefer 30 second queue times and don't care if it's faction vs faction or ffa. I respect those people's opinions, don't wish them hardship, and am more than happy to come up with a solution that makes both sides happy.

    The thing is, we can make everyone happy by making it optional. And there are ways to do it that will still prevent sync queuing by premades, and not significantly increase queue times. All you have to do is lockout the merc leaving the instance to that instance only, not to any other warfront or other instance of that warfront.
    You can't make both sides happy by making it optional, and queue times are not the only issue that the mercenary system solves. Ever spend a weekend afternoon getting roflstomped by the same enemy premade until they show up on your team? Ya, it's a refreshing change of pace. Give people the option to opt out and you'll be back to being farmed until the premade decides to call it a day. The mercenary system does almost as much to address faction dominance issues as it does to address queue times, and if you start giving people the option to opt out, they're going to come up with the dumbest reasons and then queue times go up and they'll cry about queue times and...

    I think some folks need to just stop playing pretend for a while and just enjoy the game.

    If Trion decides to cater to the kids on this one and make merc an option, I'd be extremely disappointed. They've done enough bending over for whiners and my hope is that they're finally settling in and putting gameplay ahead of crybabies.

  7. #67
    Sword of Telara Sykk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vihar View Post
    Your "values" interfere with other REAL people's gameplay.

    Mine do not.
    nah, i'm minding my own business doin w/e, much like half the other players in the match

  8. #68
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    I understand what you mean Meina. What you are trying to say is that you don't look at Rift like you do a normal FPS game. In an FPS game, you might say, "I sat down for 20 minutes and played a game. Then, I played another game for another 20 minutes," Where, with an RPG, even if you don't RP, you may like to try to get immersed in the story and world, and become part of that world.

    There are many who sit down for a warfront, and win or lose, that game is over, forget that one, next up. Those people will not understand why you choose to enjoy the game a different way, and will choose to call you names or berate you because you don't enjoy it the same way they do.

    Hopefully, Trion will realize that they have a substantial subscriber base that enjoys their game the way you do, and for whom the merc system seriously cripples their enjoyment, and will make it optional. There isn't a good reason for them not to.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    So you're saying that there are people who actually enjoy longer queue times? That's...well, hey...there are people who enjoy eating paste, too. Different strokes, as it were.
    I don't enjoy longer queue times, but I don't mind longer queue times for a better quality of play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    Then maybe "some of you" should just stop queuing for a while until you can learn to be grown-ups, ya? My guess is that the number of people sulking and choosing not to queue would be greatly overshadowed by the number of people queuing more often because they love the fast queues, but that's just a guess.
    There you go. "You don't like it, quit." Perhaps the rest of us should have told that to you when you were whining about 5 minutes worth of queue. If you didn't like it, why didn't you quit? No, you probably tried to make it better instead of quitting, just like we are here, now. But now that you've ruined our fun with this change, it's down to telling us just to quit the game.

    Also, I don't know how many more people will queue for warfronts. But if I had to guess, they'll get far fewer new subscriptions from people who have heard about faster wf queues, than they'll lose from people for whom this change ruins pvp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    You can't make both sides happy by making it optional, and queue times are not the only issue that the mercenary system solves. Ever spend a weekend afternoon getting roflstomped by the same enemy premade until they show up on your team? Ya, it's a refreshing change of pace. Give people the option to opt out and you'll be back to being farmed until the premade decides to call it a day. The mercenary system does almost as much to address faction dominance issues as it does to address queue times, and if you start giving people the option to opt out, they're going to come up with the dumbest reasons and then queue times go up and they'll cry about queue times and...

    I think some folks need to just stop playing pretend for a while and just enjoy the game.
    Did you read what you quoted? So long as you lock the merc from the instance that he/she would have been chosen as a merc for, you still can't sync queue to get in. We can make it optional without making it any easier than it is right now for sync queuers. And, if those of us who would opt out, just quit, like you suggest, how is that going to impact your queue times at all? As I said before, you can make it optional without allowing premades or increasing queue times.

    And you can call me childish...but it's an MMORPG. By definition, isn't is supposed to be about "playing pretend?"

  10. #70
    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
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    I'm going to grief Defiant in Warfronts when I'm a merc. I won't help the people that make it so leaving Sanctum is a waste of time. Going on 7 weeks and haven't gotten credit for an invasion...
    Even free cost too much now

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    This is what happens when people below the age of 13 play an MMO.
    This is untrue.

    That would be below the age of 25.

    But, yeah. Heh-heh.
    Last edited by Weathersky; 02-14-2012 at 04:10 PM.
    There is nothing impossible to him who will try. - Alexander the Great

    All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. - Galileo

  12. #72
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    So you're saying that there are people who actually enjoy longer queue times? That's...well, hey...there are people who enjoy eating paste, too. Different strokes, as it were.

    Then maybe "some of you" should just stop queuing for a while until you can learn to be grown-ups, ya? My guess is that the number of people sulking and choosing not to queue would be greatly overshadowed by the number of people queuing more often because they love the fast queues, but that's just a guess.
    I'm not going to argue these points because, to some extent, I agree with them. Although I don't think the merc system should be mandatory, I do think that griefing any team that you are forced to merc for is not a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    You can't make both sides happy by making it optional, <and the rest>
    Yes, you can make both sides happy. Let me clarify what has been proposed, which should be able to accommodate people on both sides of arguments.

    1) There will be no default "I don't want to be a merc" option. Everything happens within the queue system.

    2) Everyone queues up for WF's just as they do now.

    3) Once the WF invites go out, anyone chosen to be a merc will be notified in the invite.

    4) On the invite screen, if you are chosen as a merc, there will be new button that allows you to opt out of that battle, effectively allowing you to avoid being a merc.

    5) If you choose to opt out, you are removed from the current battle roster and placed back in queue for the next available WF that does not require you to be a merc.

    Pros:
    1) Premades are still borked because the way you initially queue has not changed from what it is now.
    2) People wishing to avoid being a merc will be able to do so.
    3) Unless a massive number of people consistently opt out of mercing, the "I want red vs blue" crowd should not be negatively effected in any way. In fact, anyone opting out will immediately open a slot for anyone who is willing to play a merc, possibly lowering queue times for those willing to merc.

    If a massive number of people do start opting out on a regular basis, then the votes are in, the majority has spoken and the merc system was not what the "most" people wanted. It'll be up to Trion to decide what to do at that point.

    Cons:
    1) People choosing to opt out of mercing will have slightly longer queue times because they forfeit their spot in the current queue if they choose to opt out.

    In short, nothing changes in regards to premades. Nothing changes in regards to the people who want to enjoy the merc system. The only thing that does change is that, by making the proposed change, Trion has made more of it's player base happy.

    People who want to play as a merc = happy
    People who want to screw over premades = happy
    People who do not want to play as a merc = happy.
    Last edited by Meina; 02-14-2012 at 04:57 PM.

  13. #73
    Rift Chaser Voidmind's Avatar
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    I wonder how many more threads on this topic there is going to be..they are all the same

    "i like apples"
    "i like oranges"
    "apples are much more tasty and crispy and fresh they are superior in every way"
    "oranges are delicious and the juice from the peels hits you in the eye and it burns, apples suck"
    "apples are better you are an idiot, quit eating anything until you like apples, YOU WILL LIKE APPLES"

    etc etc....pointless threads...give it a rest already
    it is not enough these days to question authority, you gotta speak with it too

  14. #74
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Edit: Forget it, let's not derail the topic further.
    Last edited by Aguni; 02-14-2012 at 06:52 PM.

  15. #75
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Credo View Post
    I'm going to grief Defiant in Warfronts when I'm a merc. I won't help the people that make it so leaving Sanctum is a waste of time. Going on 7 weeks and haven't gotten credit for an invasion...
    No one cares.
    You've been going on and on and on with this woe is me story for a long time.
    We get it, you're miserable, that doesn't mean you have a right to try and make others miserable.
    Transfer from the server you are in, since its an entirely self inflicted problem.

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