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Thread: Leaving Guards for Defiant?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker Ireekodeath's Avatar
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    Default Leaving Guards for Defiant?

    Some already make the claim that they might leave Guardian for the spoils of pvp on Defiant side and from what I have seen from an alt of mine people are dropping warfronts more often. In the last hour I have seen atleast 5 from each warfront I was in, which hurts your faction by the way. But what is the developers going to do if more power shifts to the defiant side? To have the option to pvp or pve makes the game fun, but if more players shift to defiant, who is your opposition now in a warfront?

    Ranking system sucks when you have rank 1s fighting each other and the guy wearing r2 gear is nuking all the fresh lvl 50s, why rank? should be gear score based not ranked if that helps, and have a lock on the gear so they cant swap gear in the warfront. Defiants are well known to have HK raids come in on a low rank match. I personally fight one warfront in the morning, on my dps or healer, but if the match looks blown out, like HK raids wiping everyone, farming, camping, im gone all day, even my r7 healer I get tired of the BS, and know this I wouldnt have been so pissed off till, now people are dropping warfronts and screwing the whole thing up for thier factions. BAD IS THAT THROUGH CHRISTMAS GUARDS DIDNT WIN ONE FIGHT. that i saw, and I hammered down for hours straight thinking we would win one atleast.

    CREATORS of this mess, you are to blame, taking money off the only real source of keeping this game alive, you put your game in their hands making it possible for them to have more than one toon running at any giving time, duel accounting, more like legit botting aslong as the guy cant be called out to quik and branded. I called out alot of people and they logged out in fear of being reported, and all the complaints I sent in, you send back a generic freaking message, I could tell you to *** off, wait I did and you blow it off like you do EVERYTHING! This game has gone to ****.. I hope everyone does go defiant side then the bots can take over guards and the real players would benifit fromt he game not only in pvp or pve but both 100%.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ireekodeath View Post
    Some already make the claim that they might leave Guardian for the spoils of pvp on Defiant side and from what I have seen from an alt of mine people are dropping warfronts more often. In the last hour I have seen atleast 5 from each warfront I was in, which hurts your faction by the way. But what is the developers going to do if more power shifts to the defiant side? To have the option to pvp or pve makes the game fun, but if more players shift to defiant, who is your opposition now in a warfront?

    Ranking system sucks when you have rank 1s fighting each other and the guy wearing r2 gear is nuking all the fresh lvl 50s, why rank? should be gear score based not ranked if that helps, and have a lock on the gear so they cant swap gear in the warfront. Defiants are well known to have HK raids come in on a low rank match. I personally fight one warfront in the morning, on my dps or healer, but if the match looks blown out, like HK raids wiping everyone, farming, camping, im gone all day, even my r7 healer I get tired of the BS, and know this I wouldnt have been so pissed off till, now people are dropping warfronts and screwing the whole thing up for thier factions. BAD IS THAT THROUGH CHRISTMAS GUARDS DIDNT WIN ONE FIGHT. that i saw, and I hammered down for hours straight thinking we would win one atleast.

    CREATORS of this mess, you are to blame, taking money off the only real source of keeping this game alive, you put your game in their hands making it possible for them to have more than one toon running at any giving time, duel accounting, more like legit botting aslong as the guy cant be called out to quik and branded. I called out alot of people and they logged out in fear of being reported, and all the complaints I sent in, you send back a generic freaking message, I could tell you to *** off, wait I did and you blow it off like you do EVERYTHING! This game has gone to ****.. I hope everyone does go defiant side then the bots can take over guards and the real players would benifit fromt he game not only in pvp or pve but both 100%.
    Most of what you describe is created by the players, not the devs.
    ---
    Unless there is some game effecting mechanic that favors Defiant over Guardians that I'm unaware of, there really isn't much Trion can do to keep people from switching sides. This is more of a case of the players wanting a free ride in PvP, not something the dev's did wrong. It's a case is, "The grass is greener over there, I want to be over there".

    Fortunately, this is a self correcting problem. As population density shifts to one side or the other 2 things begin to happen. First, the "They always win" side start to lose more often. This happens because the skill level of the players on the supposedly winning side is diluted by the people who are less skilled and lazy popping in for their free rides.

    Second is the impact on queue times. The heavier populated side will experience longer queue time. If a crapton of people switch side for the free wins, their queues time will increase dramatically. This will prompt a lot of people to give up their quest for the free ride and return to their original faction and people who were part of the 'OP' faction will be prompted to switch sides, mostly to get away from the self entitled, "I want your super green grass" crowd that has flooded their faction.
    ---
    People wanting a free ride also creates the problem with people bailing on WF's. If some of these people actually stuck around and put in some effort, maybe they'd start winning more matches. But no, most people only think of themselves and how miserable it is to lose. They don't think about what it takes to win, nor do they even try half the time. If they can't get a free ride to a win they puss out and bail.

    All Trion can do about this is increase the penalty for leaving a WF before it's completed. My personal favorite is an escalating debuff where the 'time-out' timer gets longer every time you bail within a certain time fame. As an example, the first time you bail you get a 15 minute vacation from PvP (just like you do now). The second time, you get a 30 minute break. The third time, 45 minutes. And so on until have played for 24 hours without bailing on a WF.
    ---
    I agree with you in part about the problems with the matching system. PvE gear should have an equivalent rank assigned to it when used in WF's for the sake of matching.

    As for brand new players (i.e. little to no PvP gear) entering a WF and having to face rank 2's and getting "nuked", you have to start somewhere.

    They are starting to work on a matching system. It is still in it's infancy and has some bugs that need to be worked out. The one thing they can't do while working out those bugs is tighten up the system too much. They cannot make it so that rank X always faces rank X and rank Y always faces rank Y. They need to leave a lot of wiggle room in the system in order to keep queue times from going through the roof. This means that, yes, rank 1's will have to fight rank 2's and 3's, and even the occasional rank 7 or 8. The system needs to be able to go "These people have been waiting too long, just grab anyone you can to fill the WF".
    ---
    Last but not least, Multi-boxing. Unless the person who is multi-boxing is using an illegal third party program, going out of his way to grief other players or is adversely effecting the economy, most MMO companies won't take any action against him or her. And no, a multi-boxer focus firing other players is not griefing. It's not much different from a group of individual players doing the same thing.
    Last edited by Meina; 12-29-2011 at 09:24 AM.

  3. #3
    Plane Touched
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    A HK raid in a WF? I would love to go against a team with no valor so I could lol and feel OP

    Or by HK raid do u mean a coordinated HK raiding guild PvPing together?


    Isnt "gear score" going to creat the same problem? A HK geared player against a rank 8 valor geared player will stand no chance in most situations.
    Last edited by iZemi; 12-29-2011 at 09:32 AM.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Robes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ireekodeath View Post
    Some already make the claim that they might leave Guardian for the spoils of pvp on Defiant side and from what I have seen from an alt of mine people are dropping warfronts more often. In the last hour I have seen atleast 5 from each warfront I was in, which hurts your faction by the way. But what is the developers going to do if more power shifts to the defiant side? To have the option to pvp or pve makes the game fun, but if more players shift to defiant, who is your opposition now in a warfront?

    Ranking system sucks when you have rank 1s fighting each other and the guy wearing r2 gear is nuking all the fresh lvl 50s, why rank? should be gear score based not ranked if that helps, and have a lock on the gear so they cant swap gear in the warfront. Defiants are well known to have HK raids come in on a low rank match. I personally fight one warfront in the morning, on my dps or healer, but if the match looks blown out, like HK raids wiping everyone, farming, camping, im gone all day, even my r7 healer I get tired of the BS, and know this I wouldnt have been so pissed off till, now people are dropping warfronts and screwing the whole thing up for thier factions. BAD IS THAT THROUGH CHRISTMAS GUARDS DIDNT WIN ONE FIGHT. that i saw, and I hammered down for hours straight thinking we would win one atleast.

    CREATORS of this mess, you are to blame, taking money off the only real source of keeping this game alive, you put your game in their hands making it possible for them to have more than one toon running at any giving time, duel accounting, more like legit botting aslong as the guy cant be called out to quik and branded. I called out alot of people and they logged out in fear of being reported, and all the complaints I sent in, you send back a generic freaking message, I could tell you to *** off, wait I did and you blow it off like you do EVERYTHING! This game has gone to ****.. I hope everyone does go defiant side then the bots can take over guards and the real players would benifit fromt he game not only in pvp or pve but both 100%.
    Quit then, one less crying thirteen year old is a good thing in my book.

    PS, You're think before you start making rage posts.

    PSS, Especially on something as dumb as people playing the faction they want.
    Teddro - Warrior - Seastone

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  5. #5
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    People leaving for defiant for 20min queues?

  6. #6
    Soulwalker Ireekodeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robes View Post
    Quit then, one less crying thirteen year old is a good thing in my book.

    PS, You're think before you start making rage posts.

    PSS, Especially on something as dumb as people playing the faction they want.
    So you think im a crying *** baby do yea. Well think of the chaos it brings the game when factions shift more unbalance in this game, while the guys that are paid to prevent this let the game run chaotic. Guardians have already lost alot of ranked players this far and off to another Aion with Elyos being the only ones left. If you cant beat em, join em.. I start today

  7. #7
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    l2purge
    l2cleanse

  8. #8
    Ascendant Robes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ireekodeath View Post
    So you think im a crying *** baby do yea. Well think of the chaos it brings the game when factions shift more unbalance in this game, while the guys that are paid to prevent this let the game run chaotic. Guardians have already lost alot of ranked players this far and off to another Aion with Elyos being the only ones left. If you cant beat em, join em.. I start today
    Yes i do, a simple fix for your problem would just be to find a battlegroup with a better balance of players. Seastone group for example guards win probably 75% of the time, and there's a lot of rank 8s on both sides which makes for some fun matches.

    Also, theres nothing that devs can do about people playing a faction that they want, they can do incentives for the lower pop side (bonus XP etc, although this would just cause the factions to constantly go back and forth) and other than that they really cant do anything without throwing the game balance off, people are going to play the faction that they like, and they should.
    Last edited by Robes; 12-29-2011 at 12:49 PM.
    Teddro - Warrior - Seastone

    Synna - Rogue - Vigil

    Synna Stonecove/Invalid Target for all those darkfall people

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Just move to a Guardian dominaterd PvP server

    Meina's post hit the nail on the head. I'm a Defiant in Seastone and the Guardians are strong in PvP here. Trion has done a good job making the WF terrains equal for both factions... unlike WoW's refusal to change Alterac Valley's choke points that were a disadvantage to the Horde. Since they have divided up the WFs by rank, there should be no complaints that a rank 2 is kicking a rank 1's rear. You can get to rank 3 on one escalation weekend. PvP is supposed to be hard, but fun. Most avid PvPers don't like faceroll matches...no excitement. I much prefer tight matches where there are plenty of good fights. If you have issues with PvP, it sounds like it's more of a personal thing and not Trion's fault.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ireekodeath View Post
    So you think im a crying *** baby do yea. Well think of the chaos it brings the game when factions shift more unbalance in this game, while the guys that are paid to prevent this let the game run chaotic. Guardians have already lost alot of ranked players this far and off to another Aion with Elyos being the only ones left. If you cant beat em, join em.. I start today
    Okay, just how is Trion supposed to prevent this?

  11. #11
    Soulwalker Ireekodeath's Avatar
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    Default Eh, look

    Quote Originally Posted by Meina View Post
    Okay, just how is Trion supposed to prevent this?

    I retract my previous statements, due to one day play as a defiant I have now realized just on another shard defiants have just as many issues as guardians, but I would suggest Trion still push on to remove explioting gamers, hackers, them all. It is Trions fault in the matter of finding people that disrupt the games true mechanics for personal gain, ie... RMTs in all.

    On last thing... You had to have been in a WF as a R/7-8 geared, hitting on a guy that would take no damage but sweeps into you like a furious gerbil reaper 3 players at once... right? And thats what people are tired of.. and if you click on him, hes/shes wearing HK raid gear. Meina thanks for the steam time, I needed it to get to my main focus on why I was here.. I might follow through with my Def mage, just because the Vet gear looks awesome, not because I want a piggy back ride.

    And people dropping Wfs because their sore losers, does hurt the faction, ruins game play, so we need to fix it..
    Last edited by Ireekodeath; 12-30-2011 at 12:57 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meina View Post
    Most of what you describe is created by the players, not the devs.
    ---
    Unless there is some game effecting mechanic that favors Defiant over Guardians that I'm unaware of, there really isn't much Trion can do to keep people from switching sides. This is more of a case of the players wanting a free ride in PvP, not something the dev's did wrong. It's a case is, "The grass is greener over there, I want to be over there".

    Fortunately, this is a self correcting problem. As population density shifts to one side or the other 2 things begin to happen. First, the "They always win" side start to lose more often. This happens because the skill level of the players on the supposedly winning side is diluted by the people who are less skilled and lazy popping in for their free rides.

    Second is the impact on queue times. The heavier populated side will experience longer queue time. If a crapton of people switch side for the free wins, their queues time will increase dramatically. This will prompt a lot of people to give up their quest for the free ride and return to their original faction and people who were part of the 'OP' faction will be prompted to switch sides, mostly to get away from the self entitled, "I want your super green grass" crowd that has flooded their faction.
    ---
    People wanting a free ride also creates the problem with people bailing on WF's. If some of these people actually stuck around and put in some effort, maybe they'd start winning more matches. But no, most people only think of themselves and how miserable it is to lose. They don't think about what it takes to win, nor do they even try half the time. If they can't get a free ride to a win they puss out and bail.

    All Trion can do about this is increase the penalty for leaving a WF before it's completed. My personal favorite is an escalating debuff where the 'time-out' timer gets longer every time you bail within a certain time fame. As an example, the first time you bail you get a 15 minute vacation from PvP (just like you do now). The second time, you get a 30 minute break. The third time, 45 minutes. And so on until have played for 24 hours without bailing on a WF.
    ---
    I agree with you in part about the problems with the matching system. PvE gear should have an equivalent rank assigned to it when used in WF's for the sake of matching.

    As for brand new players (i.e. little to no PvP gear) entering a WF and having to face rank 2's and getting "nuked", you have to start somewhere.

    They are starting to work on a matching system. It is still in it's infancy and has some bugs that need to be worked out. The one thing they can't do while working out those bugs is tighten up the system too much. They cannot make it so that rank X always faces rank X and rank Y always faces rank Y. They need to leave a lot of wiggle room in the system in order to keep queue times from going through the roof. This means that, yes, rank 1's will have to fight rank 2's and 3's, and even the occasional rank 7 or 8. The system needs to be able to go "These people have been waiting too long, just grab anyone you can to fill the WF".
    ---
    Last but not least, Multi-boxing. Unless the person who is multi-boxing is using an illegal third party program, going out of his way to grief other players or is adversely effecting the economy, most MMO companies won't take any action against him or her. And no, a multi-boxer focus firing other players is not griefing. It's not much different from a group of individual players doing the same thing.
    I have not seen the dominant side lose impetus often. When I played wow, I was on a PvP server where we were outnumbered 8:1 by horde. Alliance never left the cities. We didn't raid. We didn't open world. Hell, we didn't do dailies or quest much.

    All that happened was a couple of guys stretching their epeens in chat telling us we were bad and Horde sitting outside the city gates waiting for a stupid Alli to run outside.

    We went from the occasional Tauren hunter terrorizing Darkshire to full raid groups camping lowbies.

    My experience may not be the norm. But I've seen it repeated over and over again on badly out of whack population servers and battlegroups. Once a side starts winning, morale on the other side gets so bad that it stays that way.

    Happens on PvE servers as well. On Shadow Council, Wintergrasp would be taken by Alliance (at most) twice a week. Out of a possible 94 matches a week. It never got better. In fact, it got to the point that I would do one and there'd be 9 other alli playing it. Never underestimate the power of negative morale on confidence and willingness.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Cromagis's Avatar
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    I started on defiant, got to level 23 - Made a defiant mage...got it to 38...made a defiant warrior, got it to 50...releveled my mage...and ta-dah..

    I like Guardians races + que times + city more..

    But the players on Guardian are just completely...Ugh. Sometimes.
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  14. #14
    Banned Bunzy's Avatar
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    If it helps i would faction transfer just so i could get some more world pvp.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunzy View Post
    If it helps i would faction transfer just so i could get some more world pvp.
    yeah i would like to shiver some timbers for the guardians as well
    it is not enough these days to question authority, you gotta speak with it too

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