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Thread: Biggest Problem in Warfronts....with a picture.

  1. #1
    Plane Walker
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    Default Biggest Problem in Warfronts....with a picture.

    This is the biggest problem Rift currently has.

    It has no mechanic to balance Warfront classes at all. You can end up regularly in Warfronts like this one.

    Don't be confused this isn't a Guardian/Defiant specific problem, just happened to take this screenie as a particularly good example.

    The list in ranked by healing done for anyone that is so unfamiliar with the window, and yes I cropped it a little too much.

    http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/479...emwithrift.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakanish View Post
    This is the biggest problem Rift currently has.

    It has no mechanic to balance Warfront classes at all. You can end up regularly in Warfronts like this one.

    Don't be confused this isn't a Guardian/Defiant specific problem, just happened to take this screenie as a particularly good example.

    The list in ranked by healing done for anyone that is so unfamiliar with the window, and yes I cropped it a little too much.

    http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/479...emwithrift.jpg
    A calling with half of their souls based around healing, topping the healing charts? Preposterous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    A calling with half of their souls based around healing, topping the healing charts? Preposterous.
    I think he's not trying to point out how overpowered cleric heals are (They are in comparison to the other sources)...He's pointing out that warfronts are almost always grossly imbalanced one way or another healing-wise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt55511 View Post
    I think he's not trying to point out how overpowered cleric heals are (They are in comparison to the other sources)...He's pointing out that warfronts are almost always grossly imbalanced one way or another healing-wise.
    Yes exactly.

    This has nothing to do with class imbalance or any other nonsense.

    It is about how badly balanced in terms of healing Warfronts can be.

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    agreed pugging WF's suck when it comes to makeup. however grabbing a cleric friend to solo queue sync is always nice.

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    Hm, don't know how it would be possible to balance this. Guess the easiest way was to remove all heals from WFs. But ok, that's a stupid idea, I agree. If you want to try balancing heals for both sides you will run into different problems.

    1. Making each side have a set amount of healers before it starts: Even if you queue as a healer, you can easily change role once you entered a WF. Not allowing people to change a role in WF is a bad idea.

    2. The more rules there is for what each WF will be made of (rank, roles etc.) the slower the queues will be.

    Btw, I've taken part in winning a WF several times while we had no heals and the other side were healer strong. People don't have to sit down and wait for the end even if there's no healers around
    Last edited by Ailene; 12-27-2011 at 05:57 AM.

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    That doesn't really help that much.

    For example, I literally posted this thread, logged in, queued, entered library and this is what we got:

    http://imageshack.us/f/249/morepics.jpg

    You can see that both teams have healers, but one team has 8 healers compared to the other teams 3.

    You know how hard it is to kill 8 healers that are standing together? You can see how much we tried, 4 of their healers have over 90k healing done, and look at the healing taken by the healers.

    It is this constant imbalance that is the biggest problem with Rift Warfronts at the moment, nothing to do with individual classes.
    Last edited by Drakanish; 12-27-2011 at 06:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailene View Post
    Hm, don't know how it would be possible to balance this. Guess the easiest way was to remove all heals from WFs. But ok, that's a stupid idea, I agree. If you want to try balancing heals for both sides you will run into different problems.

    1. Making each side have a set amount of healers before it starts: Even if you queue as a healer, you can easily change role once you entered a WF. Not allowing people to change a role in WF is a bad idea.

    2. The more rules there is for what each WF will be made of (rank, roles etc.) the slower the queues will be.

    Btw, I've taken part in winning a WF several times while we had no heals and the other side were healer strong. People don't have to sit down and wait for the end even if there's no healers around
    Yeah course, it can be done, done it a few times myself, usually stuff like Codex though, rather than BG or Library where even holding stuff requires a healer (saying that did win a BG with no healer the other day, but our opponents were really R1 vs a few R8s.....and prestige ranks still matter more than even healing does).

    I agree with you though, if I had a suggestion for fixing this, I would have made it.

    The ONLY thing I can think of for Trion to do, is to completely change the PvP Soul and make it a healing soul that Warrior or Rogue can take.

    Of course taking that soul would have to carry with it penalties, so that just by choosing it, you lose 90% Armour as a warrior, 70% armour as a rogue, 80% dodge, block and parry abilities, etc etc.

    Even if you stick the actual healing near the top of the tree, it would at least give options to players to play as healers in WF.

    I don't like that idea. I don't think Trion would go for it, but I can't see any other way of fixing this problem in this game.

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    even so this is a "PUG" Warfront. its bound to happen.

    in a case where say u had all p8 players on each team. and all have more than half a brain with specs to counter certain WF makeups. id say warrior heavy team with 0 healers vs heavy healer with 0 dmg. would wanna spec 1 war into 51vk and have him yank a healer in to get imploded.

    but thats in a perfect world let alone maybe premades.


    i too hate being the only healer on a team, however if my team are not ******ed and know counter comps. its actually nice to wipe the floor against heavy heal teams. =)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Imbaslap View Post
    even so this is a "PUG" Warfront. its bound to happen.

    in a case where say u had all p8 players on each team. and all have more than half a brain with specs to counter certain WF makeups. id say warrior heavy team with 0 healers vs heavy healer with 0 dmg. would wanna spec 1 war into 51vk and have him yank a healer in to get imploded.

    but thats in a perfect world let alone maybe premades.


    i too hate being the only healer on a team, however if my team are not ******ed and know counter comps. its actually nice to wipe the floor against heavy heal teams. =)
    Problem is, I don't think that happens half as much as people on the forums might want to lead others to believe.

    Sure if you going in as a premade on vent/ts, you going to stand a MUCH better chance.

    If it just so happens that you are all R8 and the enemy with their 6 healers are all R1, then of course you stand a far better chance of winning.

    Let me show you the pic of damage done for that Warfront...

    http://imageshack.us/f/515/damagedone.jpg/

    You can see that damage done by our team was massively better than by the other team.

    You just can't out damage that amount of healing.

    The other team only just won, I think it was 1000 / 850 or something, but that was purely down to how good the DPS was on our team, and how well they played, it should have been a lot worse.

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    true, and agreeable.

    ive ran into lots of Rtarded p8 DPS in warfronts recently that dont know what Diminishing returns means and not to make a healer immune to controls before u get him to 35%. ?!?!? o.O

    its all luck of the draw really.

    dayblind/deepstrike battlegroup is really good pug makeups alot of times if ur in p5-8 bracket.

    not many Rtards there, atleast for me i know how to focus silence my healbot p8 warrior on his target and assist in bursting with Watajet.

    it all comes down to the players sadly. =/

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakanish View Post
    The ONLY thing I can think of for Trion to do, is to completely change the PvP Soul and make it a healing soul that Warrior or Rogue can take.
    Trion has spent the first 6 major patches reducing Cleric healing because of DPS whines, and your solution to healing imbalance is to give Warriors and Rogues healing souls?

    Really? .... REALLY???

    After studying your screenshots, I'd say that the real problem is that no more than 2 people on your faction/shard are willing to put up with the constant deaths and boredom of entering PvP as a healer.

    So ask yourself, "Why is healing so unattractive to your shard/faction?

    Well... from personal experience, I can tell you that being stunlocked and two-shot over and over is not really much fun.
    Now, maybe if some of your faction sacrificed themselves for the team, and entered warfronts on their cleric alts, you'd have better results and more even matches.

    However, (to me) it looks like everybody wants/expects somebody ELSE to heal, so they can go pwn face and have bignums.

    The Defiants on your shard seem to have figured this out.
    The system isn't broken...
    I'd have to suggest that the problem lies with your shard/faction's teamwork.
    All the patches in the world won't compensate for players who won't sacrifice for others or work as a team.

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    Finding true balance in a game where there are a limitless amount of options is VERY VERY hard. My thought is to have a cap of how many healers a warfront team can have and forcing the rest to choose another role. In a way this could help stop a lot of self healing and thus make the games revolve more around team work. It's just a thought not really sure it would work or if anyone would want that to fly, but yes it does suck to face off against a team HEAVY with healers.

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    if anything, go to a better shard/battlegroup than yours. mostly the lively ones with lots of pvpers in it that arnt ******ed.

    defiants on my battlegroup sometimes we get 6 healers on a pug wf team. and still get rolled by pyrodom+healer/vk comps.

    heavy healing isnt always a guarenteed win when in a top notch battlegroup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelani View Post
    Trion has spent the first 6 major patches reducing Cleric healing because of DPS whines, and your solution to healing imbalance is to give Warriors and Rogues healing souls?

    Really? .... REALLY???

    After studying your screenshots, I'd say that the real problem is that no more than 2 people on your faction/shard are willing to put up with the constant deaths and boredom of entering PvP as a healer.

    So ask yourself, "Why is healing so unattractive to your shard/faction?

    Well... from personal experience, I can tell you that being stunlocked and two-shot over and over is not really much fun.
    Now, maybe if some of your faction sacrificed themselves for the team, and entered warfronts on their cleric alts, you'd have better results and more even matches.

    However, (to me) it looks like everybody wants/expects somebody ELSE to heal, so they can go pwn face and have bignums.

    The Defiants on your shard seem to have figured this out.
    The system isn't broken...
    I'd have to suggest that the problem lies with your shard/faction's teamwork.
    All the patches in the world won't compensate for players who won't sacrifice for others or work as a team.
    You have misunderstood.

    It is not about "healing" imbalance.

    It is about "healer" imbalance.

    You have also ignored the statement I made earlier....to quote myself...

    "This is not a Defiant/Guardian specific problem."

    Both sides face this issue, it just so happens that the two pics I took were Defiant with the upper hand.

    Now try and take whatever chip you are carrying around on your shoulder off for a second and actually deal with the post I have made, not the post you imagine I have made in your mind.

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