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Thread: Assassin is still too Weak in PvP

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    Banned Toxen's Avatar
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    Default Assassin is still too Weak in PvP

    It was a good start with the few changes but the way how things are... with hybrid specs being far superior than 51 ptn specs.

    I do not even understand why there is a 51 ptn to begin with.

    Having a full Rank 7/8 gear set with HK weapons, I am afraid but to ask for a suggestion of a buff in Serpent Strike or maybe the poisons as a possible solution.

    This soul still does little damage, granted the soul needs to have some leverage. The stuns, poisons, and bleeds can all be counter very easily with little to no down time to other classes and majority of souls.

    Having a range soul does not help either, unless you have Rift stalker then yeah its great... but I thought the whole idea was the idea of using any soul combination not one that is over all a requirement?

    These days, if you do not have rift stalker including in your spec, you will fail 80% of the time in PvP in a decent 1 v 1 game play and not very useful against multiple players.

    I also found that even combined with PvP Soul. A full Assassin spec tree cannot kill a healer, which defeats the whole purpose of the spec for 1v1.

    Using the -50% healing debuff that last 30 seconds, I have met healers that are able to stay above 50% health with no real issues.

    The PvP Soul tree is a complete waste of time, the way how certain specs are:

    - There is no time for to build up damage like in one soul path of the tree versus burst damage souls.

    - The caster kill path of the tree is also useless because of the immunity system, you cant really rely on the interrupt because it ruins your timed saved for other CCs. Draining mana has been proven not be effect as well because there is plenty of countered abilities that give free mana back.

    - The CC path tree is kind useless, a single CC changes the outcome, even if you reduced disarm, fear, or stun to 1 second you are pretty much dead and no it is not a very effective complimentary to your soul spec combo, since you included immunities. Break Free every 1 min 30 seconds, wow... useless.

    - Then you have the reduce damage path, since the build up damage path is not working, what's the point of reduce damage?


    Sadly over 6 months of PvPing, even though alot of players have said PvP Soul is useless, I have tried every trick I could with the PvP soul to work with Assassin spec, and to no avail, I have to agree it has no real perks versus PvE Souls.

    Which I have to ask, why is it a PvP soul to begin with? What was the initial design of the PvP soul if you are going to buff PvE souls to be stronger than a PvP soul?


    Now with this in mind with how useless the PvP soul is, other than it being an achievement to grab.

    This is how weak Assassin soul tree is. Since it relies too heavily on CC. Its damage output over all is too low.

    From head start to now, Stun is a joke, there is plenty of ways for all classes to get out of the stun, without ever having break free.

    Using jagged strike, puncture, passive talent bleeds, and impale with expose weakness active; all can be countered with a single hot + Shield or a single defense CD.

    Why did you ever reduced damage the bleeds and poisons can do in the first place is beyond me.

    Just because Baneful Touch is an active buff at 20% + a little buff in poisons and talents does not replace the damage output it gave for 1 minute at 50% poison damage increase. It's a un-called for nerf.

    There is also the fact you removed expose weakness from instant to with a Cool down. I use to spam that alot when players where running away when all catch up abilities were exhausted.

    I also do not understand why you nerfed slip away. Hidden veil is always used up before combined with Slip away due to the fact that most classes are always using some form of AoE so while you are trying to get back into combat, you will always be hit by some form of AoE.

    Also the removal of the 3 seconds no damage, made this ability useless because DoTs will kill you before you can spam one last attack.

    The only thing its good for is getting out of combat and drinking.

    Also Enduring brew needs a boost. Its not strong enough or reliable enough against the 5 min CD now for warriors on complete heals, the 60% heal or more for mages *Note: Most of the time it fully heals them*, Clerics have there shields and hots and have no trouble versus our Bleeds and DoTs.

    Using this with Leeching poison buff, its still not strong enough.

    Also to make note I have used Leeching and Debilitating combo alot. Over all against Rank 7 and Rank 8 gear players. Its crap.

    There is also back to the of things I brought up, how CC heavily this soul requires.

    You are stuck with 1 of 3 choices.

    Snar/slow and Snar/slow
    Snar/slow and Stun
    Stun and Stun

    So... all these other abilities, Blind, Poison Gas, Pardon the Interruption are useless.

    Since you can remove the first CC with ease the second CC is reduced in time, its not like I can be really effective can I?

    For example, I open with a Stun a second player comes, I use blind. Player 1 and 2 remove the first CC.

    Now I am left with a stun or snare for the target *Player 1* and Poison Gas.

    Oh... but wait Any damage from Blind or Poison gas will remove its effect. So basically if they have DoTs on them, which in the hundreds of War-fronts I have been in, there has always been the case they have a single DoT on them, thanks to casters and there AoE spread effect, there is no reason for them to waste there defense CDs, is there?

    So since player #2 cant be controlled and I am not a warrior with a complete heal, a cleric with self heals, or a mage with Transformation to sheep there target and basically run around in circles and dot their target up and if they get into a jiff, they can teleport out of it and re-sheep again, I really have no defense do I?

    Which makes these CC abilities I have, garbage.


    Now at this time, I have spent way too much time over this but the over all is, I can spend 2 more hours over this of the well known flaws.

    However I do not have the patience or time for this anymore and really the task is simple.

    Since the Immunity system has been included, you need to redesign the Assassin soul tree and the PvP tree.

  2. #2
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    Trust me being a rogue with assassin is still better than being a warrior right now, If a rogue catches you with foul play and you dont have a break free your done. Rogues are in a great position from what i see.
    Last edited by Kiika; 12-26-2011 at 06:30 PM.

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    Banned Toxen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiika View Post
    Trust me being a rogue with assassin is still better than being a warrior right now. Rogues are in a great position from what i see.
    Nightblade, Blade Dancer, Riftstalker, Markmans, and Bard are fine.

    Its Assassin, PvP Soul, Ranger, Saboteur that suck right now.

    Also I just want to know why 51 point combos suck versus hybrid specs. What was the initial intention?
    Last edited by Toxen; 12-26-2011 at 06:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiika View Post
    Trust me being a rogue with assassin is still better than being a warrior right now, If a rogue catches you with foul play and you dont have a break free your done. Rogues are in a great position from what i see.
    Wrong!

    Warrior has it fairly easy in killing both caster and melee in the same spec.

    You think a assassin rogue can kill a caster or ranged physical "MM Rogue".

    You should play my Rogue, 1176 Valor, HK Weps for hit in PvP. The best part is that if I play as Assassin in PvP. If I don't kill my target within seven seconds; it will heal or go defensive.

    The only Viable assassin spec atm for a rogue is 40 Sin/ 26 RS/ 0 BD

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisN View Post
    Wrong!

    Warrior has it fairly easy in killing both caster and melee in the same spec.

    You think a assassin rogue can kill a caster or ranged physical "MM Rogue".

    You should play my Rogue, 1176 Valor, HK Weps for hit in PvP. The best part is that if I play as Assassin in PvP. If I don't kill my target within seven seconds; it will heal or go defensive.

    The only Viable assassin spec atm for a rogue is 40 Sin/ 26 RS/ 0 BD
    But again you see, Rift Stalker, its always that because of the free ports behind the target or the extra damage reduction for what other spec combo you have.

    So whats the point, again I say, bothering to have a PvP soul + a 51 combo spec?

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    Marksman and Nightblade are the only viable Rogue PvP specs. What else is new? Its been that way since 1.3.
    ~Quiescent

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    Funny you say 51 point and pvp soul suck (well, pvp souls need help) because when I absolutely, must kill somebody, I load my 51sin/15infil spec. If I'm goofing off, trying new things and trying new flavors, youll see me pvp in open worlds with nightblades, RS's and marksmen. But when enough if enough and somebody must be killed, nobody does it nastier than my 51sin.

    And not to mention with that power comes one of the biggest safety nets any soul in the game has.
    Last edited by Violacea; 12-26-2011 at 06:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Funny you say 51 point and pvp soul suck (well, pvp souls need help) because when I absolutely, must kill somebody, I load my 51sin/15infil spec. If I'm goofing off, trying new things and trying new flavors, youll see me pvp in open worlds with nightblades, RS's and marksmen. But when enough if enough and somebody must be killed, nobody does it nastier than my 51sin.
    Unless the person is a noob then yes this spec owns.

    I am talking about when you are against someone that uses HK weapons, full Rank 7/8 gear, PvP full sigil, and top enchants with PvP top enchants.

    You will not win 1 versus 1.

    Like I said I can sit there and post every flaw. However the only way you would win is if the person was not touched, meaning you can fully control the situation without anyone interrupting.

    However chances are the person might use an item at any given time.

    However my thread complaint is that given every possible situation, this spec would not prevail.

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    Sword of Telara Feid's Avatar
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    assassin is a nasty counter to any/all mage specs=/
    Now known as Menthol of galena.
    my spec http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1z...uhcV.xxoAksqxk
    Wolfsbane =worst shard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feid View Post
    assassin is a nasty counter to any/all mage specs=/
    Dominator.
    ~Quiescent

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisN View Post
    Wrong!

    Warrior has it fairly easy in killing both caster and melee in the same spec.

    You think a assassin rogue can kill a caster or ranged physical "MM Rogue".

    You should play my Rogue, 1176 Valor, HK Weps for hit in PvP. The best part is that if I play as Assassin in PvP. If I don't kill my target within seven seconds; it will heal or go defensive.

    The only Viable assassin spec atm for a rogue is 40 Sin/ 26 RS/ 0 BD
    Rogue 1210 valor, R6 weapon, 125 hit for PvP. Have a R7 warrior as well.
    As a warrior, I don't even think of taking anyone without help.
    Deepstrike:Gintoki cleric r47 Shinpachi warrior r46, Kayura rogue r50, Tsukuyo mage r47
    Laethys: Roba r44
    GW2:Ayo Timako , level 54 Necro

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    SIN/BD/INF is a pretty deadly combination. I'm not sure where people get the "need" for RS. I can kill healers 1v1. It takes a long time but I can do it. I have done it. It's not a theoretical. (It sort of helps if I catch them alone or their teammates don't peel to help them, but you'd be surprised how often that happens.)

    Deadly Strike -> Slip Away -> Assassinate for hard targets will make anyone sit up and take notice. I've held Vault by myself for an entire match on more than one occasion, and the nice thing is that if I see I'm about to be swarmed I can just toddle off undetected to another node or duck off to the side and wait for the numbers to thin before I take it back. Assassin is not a good soul for people who want to be front line fighters. If you play it properly, it's entirely viable.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feid View Post
    assassin is a nasty counter to any/all mage specs=/
    Then those mages are noobs.

    Plenty of mages I have met that know what they are doing.

    There are 3 types of mages.

    - A mage that sheeps and does a DoT damage effect.

    - A mage that applies DoTing effect that hurts you while you move.

    - A mage that has teleport will always win.

    The problem is with this thread is soul combos with out Rift Stalker.

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    The problem with Assassin is how good it is 1v1. If it were to be made any more viable for group fighting when theres more than one person, it would need a damage nerf because the frontload of damage on Sin is insane.
    ~Quiescent

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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    SIN/BD/INF is a pretty deadly combination. I'm not sure where people get the "need" for RS. I can kill healers 1v1. It takes a long time but I can do it. I have done it. It's not a theoretical. (It sort of helps if I catch them alone or their teammates don't peel to help them, but you'd be surprised how often that happens.)

    Deadly Strike -> Slip Away -> Assassinate for hard targets will make anyone sit up and take notice. I've held Vault by myself for an entire match on more than one occasion, and the nice thing is that if I see I'm about to be swarmed I can just toddle off undetected to another node or duck off to the side and wait for the numbers to thin before I take it back. Assassin is not a good soul for people who want to be front line fighters. If you play it properly, it's entirely viable.

    You but you see that's the problem "Any One" can win in a delayed battle, that means you have enough time to build up your buffs and debuffs on your target, but this is not always the case in some situations.

    However the idea of PvP is burst burst burst. So... chances are you will not have enough time to work on a player.


    Again after listing how heavily Assassin relys on CC. If you are killing 2 or 3 people you have to considered the following:

    A: Their Skills are bad and/or badly geared.
    B: They have no Cooldowns.
    C: No noob has already tried to CC them and so their Immunities are not kicking in to make your CC useless.
    Last edited by Toxen; 12-26-2011 at 07:02 PM.

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