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Thread: physical damage sucking

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default physical damage sucking

    Armor in pvp is going to increase every tier of gear that is released.

    I believe this is why the physical classes are beginning to feel weaker and weaker, slowly but surely as more people gear up tiers and increase their armor, with mages scaling the fastest against phys dmg, followed by rogues, clerics and finally warriors.

    Marksmen still deal good burst and decent damage, but that is only by the virtue of their passive 50% with rending munitions up, without they pretty much hit as hard as a wet noodle. again, NB's and RB's deal the majority of their damage as elemental/magic, not physical.

    This is something that is being overlooked because nobody gives a fk about their armor rating, maybe warriors glanced at it when they were thinking about buying rogue gear.

    The equivalent would be having an increased amount of resist on every tier of gear that was released, imagine the outrage over that.

    This is a problem that is only going to exacerbate itself if trion do not address it, as armor gives % phys mitigation and anyone with tank experience knows how that translates in terms of incoming damage.

    A solution would be to introduce armor penetration as a pvp stat (in place of attack power/crit), something that i feel is sorely needed and missing.


    WTB new level cap with gear messing everything up as it is
    Last edited by Chastity; 12-22-2011 at 10:49 PM.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chastity
    Marksmen still deal good burst and decent damage, but that is only by the virtue of their passive 50% with rending munitions up, without they pretty much hit as hard as a wet noodle.
    ...If you're using Rending Munitions, ur doin it rong.
    The rest of your post I agree with.
    ~Quiescent

  3. #3
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Depends how they progress gear and/or level caps. Without aid physical damage is rough but...I'll make rogue an example, they deal mostly with physical but have other options. My 5 roles.

    MM - 25% (+) armor penetration. AoE's are magical damage

    Nightblade - magical damage

    Riftstalker - Nothing to aid their physical damage but that isn't really what this soul focuses some of it's better talents on.

    Bard - magical damage

    Assassin - I mix it with infil to get 10% armor penetration. One of the main Sin attacks ignores armor, and assassinate ignores armor.

    I get what you are saying but maybe it's different for warriors. As a rogue you aren't as deterred by physical damage as you think. Not to mention physical damage versions of DoTs, bleeds, can't be cured. That is a major physical damage advantage. Though sabs get the major shaft with curable charges :| But overall my rogue doesn't feel too held back by physical damage. Guess I just think the armor penetration is at a fair level right now given it's accessibility.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Non physical damage != magical damage.

  5. #5
    Plane Walker Scarybadlady's Avatar
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    Physical dps need more ArP. It really needs a buff sp scales way better. Id say a buff around the same level of ulduar era feral cat arp levels. It dosent need to much thinking or adjustment just more arp and I think it would catch up and scale much better with a buff to arp alone aswel as being more tunable down the road rather then bumping weapon dps and it getting out of control which would piss people off down the road if they hd theirweapon nerfed if it were to become out of balancebb. Without arp it'll be a lot of work to balance increasing physical damage. While they are at it when are we getting haste my gcd is killing me lol.
    Last edited by Scarybadlady; 12-23-2011 at 07:10 AM.
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  6. #6
    Ascendant Am0n's Avatar
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    Or they could just continue on the easy mode fixes like they have been, but didn't finish.

    Add Ignores x% of armor.
    They started this with Sin, but never finished up on it.

    Using Sin for the ignore armor + 15 marksman for another 25% ignored armor + BD for DD can keep a physical DPS build off the grey line of physical damage being sub par.

    like the OP said though this will slowly become weaker the more armor comes into the game.

    Also I am from a PvP stand point.
    "You lost me at Balance"

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Am0n View Post
    Or they could just continue on the easy mode fixes like they have been, but didn't finish.

    Add Ignores x% of armor.
    They started this with Sin, but never finished up on it.

    Using Sin for the ignore armor + 15 marksman for another 25% ignored armor + BD for DD can keep a physical DPS build off the grey line of physical damage being sub par.

    like the OP said though this will slowly become weaker the more armor comes into the game.

    Also I am from a PvP stand point.
    Sin doesn't give armor ignore, INF does.
    ~Quiescent

  8. #8
    Ascendant Am0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    Sin doesn't give armor ignore, INF does.
    Backstab
    Assassinate

    Neither used to give armor ignore, was a 1.5 change
    "You lost me at Balance"

  9. #9
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Depends how they progress gear and/or level caps. Without aid physical damage is rough but...I'll make rogue an example, they deal mostly with physical but have other options. My 5 roles.

    MM - 25% (+) armor penetration. AoE's are magical damage

    Nightblade - magical damage

    Riftstalker - Nothing to aid their physical damage but that isn't really what this soul focuses some of it's better talents on.

    Bard - magical damage

    Assassin - I mix it with infil to get 10% armor penetration. One of the main Sin attacks ignores armor, and assassinate ignores armor.

    I get what you are saying but maybe it's different for warriors. As a rogue you aren't as deterred by physical damage as you think. Not to mention physical damage versions of DoTs, bleeds, can't be cured. That is a major physical damage advantage. Though sabs get the major shaft with curable charges :| But overall my rogue doesn't feel too held back by physical damage. Guess I just think the armor penetration is at a fair level right now given it's accessibility.
    1.5 was a major rogue buff patch. the greatest part of that patch was focused on addressing the poor performance of physical damage with the class.

    prior to 1.4.5, warrior physical damage wasnt too bad. RB was still out-performing it, but it could atleast keep up.
    1.4.5 nerfed warrior damage in pvp, and particularly nerfed physical damage, leaving RB as the only viable option.

    when 1.5 nerfed bloodthirsty and added a great deal of survivability to rogues, it essentialy killed off what little was left of warrior pvp viability for any warrior not yet r8.

    1.7 is supposed to address warrior physical pvp damage issues. we dont yet know how.
    while this will be a welcome change, it is my fear that whatever is being worked on may be less a warrior physical damage fix and more a general physical damage fix. ie: it will further buff rogue physical damage, which is an issue that has already been addressed in 1.5.
    in addition i'm am concerned that warrior survivability wont be addressed at all. this will leave us at the bottom of the pvp heap. still not hitting as hard as any other class, while having our only marginaly usefull passive defence (plate armour) reduced to something even less usefull.
    Last edited by Kronos v; 12-23-2011 at 07:59 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
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    I wish they would add resists to PvP armor. Make magical damage get reduced twice like physical damage.

    Also lol @ Rogue survivability
    Even free cost too much now

  11. #11
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Credo View Post
    Also lol @ Rogue survivability
    you can lol at rogue survivability all you like, but pls do so after comparing it to pre-1.5 survivability.
    then compare it to current warrior survivability.

    1.3-1.5 warrior survivability depended on 2 essential things: 1) hitting an enemy hard enough to kill it fast, before it killed you. 2) bloodthirsty heals from the killing blows gained from hitting hard.

    with warrior damage successivly nerfed throughout 1.4-1.5 we lost the ability to kill fast.
    bloodthirsty nerfed in 1.5 lost us the ability to continuously heal during combat (an option available to EVERY other class, if they choose to spec certain souls).
    opposing warriors forced into RB focused builds, and rogues damage/survivability buffed meant now EVERY class was hitting us hard, not just mages/clerics. this is somewhat mitigated by equiping a shield, which still helps against warriors/rogues, but at the cost of further reducing our damage.

    you lol@rogue survivability.
    i weep for warrior survivability

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Am0n View Post
    Backstab
    Assassinate

    Neither used to give armor ignore, was a 1.5 change
    Backstab doesn't give armor ignore, it never has. Assassinate does, but you should never be using it anyway considering the alternatives..
    ~Quiescent

  13. #13
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    you can lol at rogue survivability all you like, but pls do so after comparing it to pre-1.5 survivability.
    then compare it to current warrior survivability.

    1.3-1.5 warrior survivability depended on 2 essential things: 1) hitting an enemy hard enough to kill it fast, before it killed you. 2) bloodthirsty heals from the killing blows gained from hitting hard.

    with warrior damage successivly nerfed throughout 1.4-1.5 we lost the ability to kill fast.
    bloodthirsty nerfed in 1.5 lost us the ability to continuously heal during combat (an option available to EVERY other class, if they choose to spec certain souls).
    opposing warriors forced into RB focused builds, and rogues damage/survivability buffed meant now EVERY class was hitting us hard, not just mages/clerics. this is somewhat mitigated by equiping a shield, which still helps against warriors/rogues, but at the cost of further reducing our damage.

    you lol@rogue survivability.
    i weep for warrior survivability
    Warriors are the Rogues of 1.1 1.2 1.3 and 1.4
    ~Quiescent

  14. #14
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    Warriors are the Rogues of 1.1 1.2 1.3 and 1.4
    i am aware of this, hence why i suggested comparing pre- and post-1.5 rogue survivablity to the player doing the loling.

    thoughout 1.3-1.4 the standard warrior survivability strat was to kill the nearest rogue for a quick bloodthirsty proc, then go back to beating on immortal clerics and chloro/dom mages.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    Backstab doesn't give armor ignore, it never has. Assassinate does, but you should never be using it anyway considering the alternatives..
    Maybe he meant the puncture attack o.O

    Assassinate has plenty of uses tbh. Since it ignores all armor you can predict its damage easier and it clears a pretty decent hit on everyone. Sometimes it's a pretty amazing ability. Probably one of the highest hitting attacks that you cannot mitigate outside of valor.

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