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Thread: Giving rogues longer range than all other ranged casters

  1. #31
    Plane Touched TourneAsunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaine View Post
    did I say you could get them all at once?

    You rogues are so defensive. I would be too if I knew my class was about to get the nerfbat swung from the Jose Canseco of developers.
    The only Rogues worried about any sort of nerf- would be the rerolled Warrs, Clerics, Mages assuming that the grass is greener...and run about at p2 spamming Fan Out.

    There is not one single class NOT equipped to handle any and all builds of Rogues- except 99% of you have NO IDEA what build of Rogue you are even facing...

    A Rogue pops out of Stealth with Dark Malady...and instantly you are facing an NB/RS so give up- yet, it's only a p1 MM which can't do much of anything to you.

    The next Rogue darts past- you shudder with panic waiting for the Assassinate/Stun Lock...yet, he whooshes away doing insanely LOW damage because he is a full fledged RS carrier.

    You lol laugh at the swift shot or quick shot damage- and rush into melee the MM only to find BD, NB or Sin hybrid specs...

    You waste time on CC'ing builds with x3 Break Free's....and DON'T CC full dps builds with ZERO Break Free ability.

    You use a KITE build to face off against an MM...

    You are foolish enough to think that we are abusing state of the class....and not your ignorance.

    Wow, I wonder why you all are having a hard time- it would be like me seeing a Mage and thinking it to be a Warrior.
    Last edited by TourneAsunder; 10-17-2011 at 11:30 AM.
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  2. #32
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    L2Cleanse is a terribly naive statement anyways. Debuffs can be applied 1+N times the number of attackers every GCD where a cleric can only remove 1 (2 in some cases stacking single cure with warden pulsing cure, but that is on a LONG gcd and only lasts 6 seconds). Not only that, the cleric cant decide which debuff to remove first as there is no way to prioritize.
    Last edited by Covenn; 10-17-2011 at 11:31 AM.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Covenn View Post
    L2Cleanse is a terribly naive statement anyways. Debuffs can be applied 1+N times the number of attackers every GCD where a cleric can only remove 1 (2 in some cases stacking single cure with warden pulsing cure, but that is on a LONG gcd and only lasts 6 seconds). Not only that, the cleric cant decide which debuff to remove first as there is no way to prioritize.
    Ah the good old cleric mentality that assumes they should be able to handle multiple opponents. newsflash if more than 1 person is on you you should be losing/dead.

  4. #34
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    I'm reluctant to even post in some of these threads, but here goes nothing:

    IF healing debuffs stay as they are - able to be spammed and applied to multiple targets simultaneously (especially VM via Fan Out), then Trion must add a "cleanse weight" stat in the code that makes a healing debuff the first target of a cleanse. As is, many targets in warfronts will have multiple debuffs on them simultaneously, so cleansing is a mixed bag. You might have to cleanse 6 times to get that healing debuff off (because removing 1 stack of Neddra's Tortue is so much better. ), at which point your target is dead. Or you can try to heal him through a 50% debuff with siphon while he's being focused by 3 people, if you like raging at heal debuffs.

    Making certain debuffs high-priority for cleanses (Right now just healing ones, really) would make it so that an attentive healer can know that his cleanse will be useful and can turn the tide for his team IN EXACTLY THE SAME MANNER as a MM spamming Fan Out to apply VM. In single target situations, Fell Blades works exactly the same way.

    If Lingering Wounds is non-cleansable, it needs to be on AT LEAST a 30 second cooldown. I've been in multiple warfronts with the same queue-cheesing "premade" where 1 rank 8 warrior runs around and does nothing but put LW on as many people as possible. Uncleansable, lasts 15 seconds, can be reapplied before that 15 seconds is up? Are you kidding me? It is impossible for me (R4 healer with 900 valor) to heal myself faster than just that 1 warrior can kill me if LW is on me. I don't mind dying to R8 players, but when I am doing nothing but spamming healing cooldowns on myself and I still have no chance and am dead in under 6 seconds, something's wrong. EVEN if I see LW and it were cleansable, I still have to use a cooldown to cleanse it off myself, which is a GCD I won't be healing with. As is, LW is overpowered. It needs to be cleansable OR on a significant cooldown (15s is not enough because it could still have 100% uptime) and restricted to 1 target.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TourneAsunder View Post
    The only Rogues worried about any sort of nerf- would be the rerolled Warrs, Clerics, Mages assuming that the grass is greener...and run about at p2 spamming Fan Out.

    There is not one single class NOT equipped to handle any and all builds of Rogues- except 99% of you have NO IDEA what build of Rogue you are even facing...

    A Rogue pops out of Stealth with Dark Malady...and instantly you are facing an NB/RS so give up- yet, it's only a p1 MM which can't do much of anything to you.

    The next Rogue darts past- you shudder with panic waiting for the Assassinate/Stun Lock...yet, he whooshes away doing insanely LOW damage because he is a full fledged RS carrier.

    You lol laugh at the swift shot or quick shot damage- and rush into melee the MM only to find BD, NB or Sin hybrid specs...

    You waste time on CC'ing builds with x3 Break Free's....and DON'T CC full dps builds with ZERO Break Free ability.

    You use a KITE build to face off against an MM...

    You are foolish enough to think that we are abusing state of the class....and not your ignorance.

    Wow, I wonder why you all are having a hard time- it would be like me seeing a Mage and thinking it to be a Warrior.
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  6. #36
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    I really hate responding to troll threads. But I have always wondered why mages and lesser part clerics donít have an option for range extension. It always seems a broken mechanics in this game.

    See mages is all about range and yet they have such a small range for their abilities. Yet rogue gets a spot on the tree for extension. Yet, the same time you can not really say about bard. The need a few extra yards but donít benefit from this. It just three trees that have a range extension and they only help those three. Sab is for that tree only.

    So this would be a very valid question, if not for the way it was presented. I have said this and will say this mages trees are broken and need an overhaul. With the way crowd control is now. A lot of the abilities need to be redone and replaced with something else. As you are very limited to the amount off cc a person can use. That is unless you are a guardian or defiant that can use cc continuously and get away with it and not share their secret with the rest of us. Thus, could a dev please explain this to me? I donít care e mail, message from the gods or Devine quest. Just an answer would be nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shendar View Post
    Same reason why they are coming out of woodwork after 1.5. FOTM rerollers maybe? No, that's not possible. Every rogue player is extremely skilled and dedicated.
    90% of the rogues i'm seeing in WFs at the moment are poor and perform less an average in that WF.

    Guess the warriors rerolled and are struggling with more than 2 buttons.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by auchter View Post
    90% of the rogues i'm seeing in wfs at the moment are poor and perform less an average in that wf.

    Guess the warriors rerolled and are struggling with more than 2 buttons.


    omg

    lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaine View Post
    Except there aren't ... ask Liang for his unbiased count on rogues/warfront. Rogues are now 50% of the WF player base.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auchter View Post
    Ah the good old cleric mentality that assumes they should be able to handle multiple opponents. newsflash if more than 1 person is on you you should be losing/dead.
    Sorry sir, you completely fail with your assumption.

    This game isnt a 1v1 one game it is a NvN game. My comment applies to removing debuffs from anyone on your team. (and not just rogue applied debuffs)
    Last edited by Covenn; 10-17-2011 at 11:50 AM.
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  11. #41
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    So use several cleansers
    Raenryong@Deepwood R69 ~ Amathys@Zaviel (Rogue)
    Serefina@Deepwood R66 ~ Solserefina@Zaviel (Warrior)
    Seraena@Deepwood R80 ~ Seraena@Zaviel R70 (Cleric)
    Avalonia@Deepwood R66 ~ Avalonia@Zaviel (Mage)
    <Dauntless> ~ <Excellence>

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auchter View Post
    90% of the rogues i'm seeing in WFs at the moment are poor and perform less an average in that WF.

    Guess the warriors rerolled and are struggling with more than 2 buttons.
    90% of the rogues you are seeing in WFs were and will always be bad even with buffs, you being a good example of those bad rogues.

    P.S. Damn those fotms rerolling from the warrior 2 buttons class to the rogues 1 button class, what were they thinking!?
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    In before... "This thread (aka forum) is being locked because it's filled with hypocrisy, idiocy, made up numbers and lack of any sort of constructive posts"

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raen Ryong View Post
    So use several cleansers
    Debuffs aren't that easy to cleanse.
    A better re-action to Fan Out spam would be an Eradicate Marksman.

    Why Cleansing is usually not an option?

    One simple Reason:

    Grave Rot! The single most disturbing debuff in the game. Almost no visual effect, first tick when applied, 5 ticks in 6 seconds. Each debuff (Deathly Calling) lasts 30 sec and you 1 cleanse removes only 1 debuff. This in my opinion should be nerfed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwish View Post
    Why are people acting like only since the release of 1.5 Rogues are 50%+ of Warfronts? Rogues were always the largest Warfront population, at least for Guardians, while Defiants were mostly Mages and Warriors. How come Rogues weren't an issue for you then? Oh that's right because we Rogues didn't matter, were push overs, and gauranteed free kill/win.

    Most of us complaining that Rogues were weak and needed a buff were Guardians. We saw first hand how weak we were in group v group vs other callings. Now all of a sudden Defiants are hopping on the Rogue bandwagon Rogues are op and need a nerf? This should tell you which faction is true FOTM reroll faction. Its been that way since release.

    Those of us, Guardians or Defiants, that have been Rogues since launch enjoy the free favor from the rerollers who never learned to play regardless of class. We learned to play when the class was weak. Now that they gave us knives you think we're op for having skills.

    - Vybz
    I'm going with Option B, Rogue's were balanced and not overpowered or underpowered.

    When Trion stated goal is "To make people fear Rogues as much as they Fear Warriors" when Warriors at the time were viewed as super overpowered by everyone, including rogue's... you know something bad is going to happen

    What also made it funny as while they were buffing the **** out of a calling that did not need a buff in PVP, they were nerfing the calling they wanted to make it similar to.

    Simply look a this last patch, what got buffed the most

    Marksman - Didn't need a Buff, but got it
    Nightblade - didn't need a buff, but got it
    assassin - didn't need a buff but got it
    bladedancer - needed a buff, But guess what.. since the others were already vastly superior, everyone just plays those.

    now you have moronic specs like NB/RS running around, or Marksman who do nothing but spam fan out, and Assassins up everyones butt in open world.

    They basically took the most overplayed calling in the game, and said "hey you want to be oped, here ya go, have at it"

    Then only good thing about this is Trion will nerf the ever living crap out of these rogue's and they'll all quit the game for good so we won't have to read their moronic responses anymore.
    Xsorus - Rank 8 Mage/Server Seastone/Guardian/Guild - Desolate

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qia View Post
    Debuffs aren't that easy to cleanse.
    A better re-action to Fan Out spam would be an Eradicate Marksman.

    Why Cleansing is usually not an option?

    One simple Reason:

    Grave Rot! The single most disturbing debuff in the game. Almost no visual effect, first tick when applied, 5 ticks in 6 seconds. Each debuff (Deathly Calling) lasts 30 sec and you 1 cleanse removes only 1 debuff. This in my opinion should be nerfed.
    Graverot + Last Gasp = win, try cleansing something when every hot on ya resets last gasp one more tic, every random heal from those chloromancers/bards/justicars sets it off hehe
    Xsorus - Rank 8 Mage/Server Seastone/Guardian/Guild - Desolate

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