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Thread: What if new players actually PvP'd, instead of asking for better gear?

  1. #46
    Ascendant Liang Nuren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zetans View Post
    Sure hand out titles, and achvs, hell even pvp rank based mounts. But I dont think any true pvper really wants gear disparity. it defeats the whole point of taking part, for both teh high and low gear levels.
    They usually don't want massive gear disparity, no. I consider myself a 'real PVPer' yet in Eve I was running around with a HG crystal set and deadspace fit most of my ships. Most of the people I engaged were fit with T2. The Rift equivalents are:
    - Full HK/R8 for my gear, probably including time invested (if not more).
    - For their gear: R4 PVP, but much easier to obtain (like fresh 50 gear).
    - All gear is destructable - so when I lost my ship I had to go re-grind up all the ****.

    When we found nothing but ganks (5v1) it wasn't very fun... but when we engaged against fairly dramatic odds and relied on teamwork to win (or lose), risking billions and hundreds of hours of PVE grinding... it became tons of fun.

    Most PVPers are more than willing to account for small advantages gained from paying attention and going the extra mile (or even quite a few miles!) to gain advantages. But I don't think many want to always roflstomp.

    -Liang

  2. #47
    Ascendant Liang Nuren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zetans View Post
    In RIFT, no matter how godlike I may be, I will never stand a chance until my gear gets better....

    So why would I bother? serously, I got to 50, I paid my subs, and then I get the choice of spending months (some of us have jobs and cant play 24/7) getting ganked in WFs......yeah I'm keepign up with that, oh what fun.

    You really are fine with gear beign this important?
    I'm not asking how it is, I'm asking how you think it should be...
    It doesn't take months of getting ganked in WFs. You can be perfectly competitive against most people in the game at R3-R4. R5-R6 and you start to be down right amazing. Yes, R7/8 gear is better (a lot better), but you're way overstating the effect gear has on PVP.

    -Liang

  3. #48
    Plane Walker Knightcrawler's Avatar
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    Yea mate - FPS is where its at if all you want to base things on is skill. Unfortunately I'd like to base things on skill but a FPS doesn't really do it for me, I like the in depth use of a MULTITUDE of skills/specs/classes which need to be countered and synergized with, which creates a whole new challenge on its own. Gear and ranks just mess with it a lot - Personally thats why I spend more time Dueling other r8's in meridian or hooking up with guardian r8s who are rivals but we respect eachother enough to have fun and civil duels.

    I rarely do wf's on my p8 any more and instead enjoy the challenge of p8 vs p8 duels or low rank wfs on my alts/wifes toon.

    Correct me if im wrong but GW2 will have instanced pvp with skills/specs/classes but no gear disparity - You'll definately see me there.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liang Nuren View Post
    It doesn't take months of getting ganked in WFs. You can be perfectly competitive against most people in the game at R3-R4. R5-R6 and you start to be down right amazing. Yes, R7/8 gear is better (a lot better), but you're way overstating the effect gear has on PVP.

    -Liang
    I'm not.

    I've been sitting in teh WF queue since I hit 50, on my cleric I may aswell just afk as I get killed in seconds and focussed on as the easy kill. you can see 'pro' R8s ignore others and make a beeline for me to kill me.....

    On my rogue, I do sort of ok, I can survive a bit, by running lots....but I've stood there and unloaded everything at a player of high rank and hardly dented his health, only for him to turn round and kill ne on 2-3 gcds.....

    No.....gear means nothing....

    I suggest you try new level 50 pvp right now, because I really dont think you know what you are talking about from this side of teh gear divide.

  5. #50
    Ascendant Charlice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zetans View Post
    But in CS, its skill....so you learn.

    In RIFT, no matter how godlike I may be, I will never stand a chance until my gear gets better....

    So why would I bother? serously, I got to 50, I paid my subs, and then I get the choice of spending months (some of us have jobs and cant play 24/7) getting ganked in WFs......yeah I'm keepign up with that, oh what fun.

    You really are fine with gear beign this important?
    I'm not asking how it is, I'm asking how you think it should be...
    I hear you.

    I finally got to r7 but I've just about had enough anyway. I feel like I'm just going through the motions now.

    I still think EQ2's warfront stance on armor is a billion times better. You get tokens/faction you buy armor. One set of armor. No rank 1-8 crap. One set that people still whine over having to 'lolwork' towards but just the one.

    It puts players on equal footing a lot sooner and results in much better/even PvP battles imo.


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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knightcrawler View Post
    Correct me if im wrong but GW2 will have instanced pvp with skills/specs/classes but no gear disparity - You'll definately see me there.
    likewise.

    I love rift, but the pvp sucks, unless its sorted Rift PVP holds no attraction for me. I dont want to be useless in WFs for ages to gear, only to be able to gank new players when I have done so.....

  7. #52
    Ascendant Charlice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zetans View Post
    likewise.

    I love rift, but the pvp sucks, unless its sorted Rift PVP holds no attraction for me. I dont want to be useless in WFs for ages to gear, only to be able to gank new players when I have done so.....
    I have recently logged into EQ2 simply to wtfpwn people in battlegrounds. It makes me feel good


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  8. #53
    Ascendant Liang Nuren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zetans View Post
    I'm not.

    I've been sitting in teh WF queue since I hit 50, on my cleric I may aswell just afk as I get killed in seconds and focussed on as the easy kill. you can see 'pro' R8s ignore others and make a beeline for me to kill me.....

    On my rogue, I do sort of ok, I can survive a bit, by running lots....but I've stood there and unloaded everything at a player of high rank and hardly dented his health, only for him to turn round and kill ne on 2-3 gcds.....

    No.....gear means nothing....

    I suggest you try new level 50 pvp right now, because I really dont think you know what you are talking about from this side of teh gear divide.
    I have absolutely no choice but to deem you lazy and incompetent. Try inspecting the people in your WF some time. There's the odd R6 and R8, but for the most part everyone's R3-R5. The gear disparity is there, but it's not as prevalent as you seem to think, and it doesn't make as big of a difference as you seem to think it does.

    I've hit 50 twice since 1.5 came out, and my current character of choice is a R4 mage (you know, the "Mage: It's what's for dinner" as far as the FOTM Rogues that are 75% of every WF are concerned). I've got just over 7 days /played and I'm about half way to R5 and hit R4 yesterday or the day before - and now that I'm R4 I've been topping damage/KB charts on occasion and really making large contributions to the team.

    Now, that's not to say that I felt really effective at R1-R2. I didn't, and I know that's a crappy place to be. But you aren't there for months - R1-R3 is less than a week's worth of work, even less with the prestige vials. If you bother to do your PVP dailies for a couple days (read: PVE kill a couple monsters - 30 minutes total, tops) you'll be R2 in just a couple days.

    -Liang

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlice View Post
    I have recently logged into EQ2 simply to wtfpwn people in battlegrounds. It makes me feel good
    How is EQ2 doing these days? Been comtemplating going back, what's the population like?

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by orikx View Post
    real pvp'rs don't want massive gear differences between them and their opponents. They want fights to come down to who has more skill. Rift doesn't have real pvp. Rift has a bunch of pve'rs that call themselves pvp'rs because they spend their time farming pvp gear instead of pve gear.

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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaedyan View Post
    EVE's good PvP. EVE's PvP progression blows away any differences in Rift. Are you saying EVE's PvP takes no skill as well?
    EVE is the fairest pvp game that I'm aware of. No comparison to the gear grind of fantasy MMOs -- You clearly no idea what you're talking about.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelani View Post
    Well, they'd spend the first week dying to everything and everyone.
    They'd be insulted by their teammates for being a drag on the team.
    They'd be one or two shot by every opponent they meet.
    They'd get camped in the spawn, as a source of free favor and prestige for the other team.

    As they finally pick up enough favor to get some Valor gear, they'd still get pwned by more than half of the other team.
    They'd learn the best places to hide and PvE inside the warfront maps.
    They'd AFK because endless respawn timers isn't a fun way to spend your gametime.
    They'd get reported by teammates that want R8s in there, not "freekin R2 nubs".

    After months and months of grinding, they'd still die to R8s, but they'd find they can kill R1s.
    They start logging onto the forums, to shout down the idea of ranked competition.
    Because, obviously, they need to be able to kill somebody else to progress.

    After they finally achieve the R8 pinnacle, they get bored with Warfronts, because there's no challenge and no reward.
    So, they'd log onto the forums to shout down all those R1s who want a fair fight with "We didn't get one... why should you."
    Finally, they'd quit the game because warfronts are too easy and boring.

    So... that's how it would go if new players actually PvPed.
    Pretty bleak outlook for warfronts.
    Pretty much sums up my experience, I'm at P6 now and the above still applies. I get camped in spawns, R8's mow me down with ease even after I've dragged myself to R6 and now I'm probably going to quit.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liang Nuren View Post
    It doesn't take months of getting ganked in WFs. You can be perfectly competitive against most people in the game at R3-R4. R5-R6 and you start to be down right amazing. Yes, R7/8 gear is better (a lot better), but you're way overstating the effect gear has on PVP.

    -Liang
    A lot of people say this, when I was P0 they said when you get to P4 you'll start to be competitive, so I got to P4 and could survive for longer but didn't feel competitive. So people state (you in this case) that at R5/R6 you feel "down right amazing", well guess what...I'm R5/R6 and I still can't compete, i certainly don't feel down right amazing, unless some poor P0 get's in my path.

    Gear in this game is the deciding factor, if I play any of my alts (I have another mage + rogue in the 40 bracket) I finish top damage + top KB's in warfronts, most of the time with zero deaths. I've gone 29-0 on my rogue in a codex, 32-2 on my mage in a whitefall, I know how to position myself, how to kite, pre-kite, time my kills, use CC. In the lower bracket's this works as the gear disparity is minimal.

    Are you saying that all of that goes out of the window once I gain level 50? That I suddenly had a PvP lobotomy and I can't kite, can't position myself, stand in AoE and I'm PvP'ing in greens? It's all down to gear, yes I will put up a fight and I won't be an easy target but the fact of the matter is, no matter how hard I fight, they have a bigger stick than me. If I'm hitting them for 400 and they are hitting me for 1k+ (or 2k in some cases) who do you think will win?

    Rift is all about gear, gear, gear. I have played a lot of MMO's and I have always PvPed in them, each has there floors and merits, each has people with better gear than you, but never has the gear disparity been so huge as it is in Rift and never have I been more frustrated with a game that could be so good, but ultimately will fail because of bad development decisions and horrific gear disparity.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmosis View Post
    A lot of people say this, when I was P0 they said when you get to P4 you'll start to be competitive, so I got to P4 and could survive for longer but didn't feel competitive. So people state (you in this case) that at R5/R6 you feel "down right amazing", well guess what...I'm R5/R6 and I still can't compete, i certainly don't feel down right amazing, unless some poor P0 get's in my path.

    Gear in this game is the deciding factor, if I play any of my alts (I have another mage + rogue in the 40 bracket) I finish top damage + top KB's in warfronts, most of the time with zero deaths. I've gone 29-0 on my rogue in a codex, 32-2 on my mage in a whitefall, I know how to position myself, how to kite, pre-kite, time my kills, use CC. In the lower bracket's this works as the gear disparity is minimal.

    Are you saying that all of that goes out of the window once I gain level 50? That I suddenly had a PvP lobotomy and I can't kite, can't position myself, stand in AoE and I'm PvP'ing in greens? It's all down to gear, yes I will put up a fight and I won't be an easy target but the fact of the matter is, no matter how hard I fight, they have a bigger stick than me. If I'm hitting them for 400 and they are hitting me for 1k+ (or 2k in some cases) who do you think will win?

    Rift is all about gear, gear, gear. I have played a lot of MMO's and I have always PvPed in them, each has there floors and merits, each has people with better gear than you, but never has the gear disparity been so huge as it is in Rift and never have I been more frustrated with a game that could be so good, but ultimately will fail because of bad development decisions and horrific gear disparity.

    I agree. You especially place whats been on my mind with that last paragraph really well. Its sad that youll just get trolled and they will refuse to even consider looking at it from a different perspective. I honestly feel like a maochotist playing this game. I would gladly leave but just bidding my time til GW2 comes out, and frankly even if its not as great as all the hype Ill prob still be happy with the thought they still placed in the pvp system.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by imBad View Post
    I agree. You especially place whats been on my mind with that last paragraph really well. Its sad that youll just get trolled and they will refuse to even consider looking at it from a different perspective. .
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