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Thread: [Video] Pre-Kiting and Strafe-Kiting - Do people do these things consistently?

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    Sword of Telara taugrim's Avatar
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    Default [Video] Pre-Kiting and Strafe-Kiting - Do people do these things consistently?

    There has been a lot of controversy since Patch 1.5 launched. One of the common arguments I've read on the RIFT PVP & Warfronts forum is that "RDPS are squishy and need(ed) survivability buffs."

    Yesterday I decided to record the first full Codex warfront I got into, then break down the footage to see how opposing players and I managed our survivability.

    In particular, I was looking for the following:
    1. proper pre-kiting: anticipating situations, finding a good spot to DPS/heal from that offers excellent field-of-fire with some defensibility (e.g. standing near a pillar or on a cliff, flanking opponents, etc)
    2. proper strafe-kiting: running sideways under fire to escape to create a gap and using terrain to your advantage - as opposed to facetanking, backpedaling, or turning and running away
    3. proper use of emergency cooldowns to get out of bad situations

    Here's the video with commentary:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I01vCb3RA8

    EDIT: I queue'd solo.
    Last edited by taugrim; 10-08-2011 at 10:15 AM.
    Taugrim
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    Ascendant Jeffreys's Avatar
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    Does running into walls and tripping on pebbles count as proper kiting? If so, I'm good.

    But actually, I've seen more backpedallers and statues of all classes since launch. More pve players discovering pvp maybe. Which is good and they'll benefit from your well done video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by taugrim View Post
    There has been a lot of controversy since Patch 1.5 launched. One of the common arguments I've read on the RIFT PVP & Warfronts forum is that "RDPS are squishy and need(ed) survivability buffs."

    Yesterday I decided to record the first full Codex warfront I got into, then break down the footage to see how opposing players and I managed our survivability.

    In particular, I was looking for the following:
    1. proper pre-kiting: anticipating situations, finding a good spot to DPS/heal from that offers excellent field-of-fire with some defensibility (e.g. standing near a pillar or on a cliff, flanking opponents, etc)
    2. proper strafe-kiting: running sideways under fire to escape to create a gap and using terrain to your advantage - as opposed to facetanking, backpedaling, or turning and running away
    3. proper use of emergency cooldowns to get out of bad situations

    Here's the video with commentary:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I01vCb3RA8
    Iam acually surprised that no NB/RS rogue showed up and focus fired you couse then u wouldn't get away that easy. But still, well played.

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    Ascendant Tigruz's Avatar
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    I would hate to play against you because you seem to be a shifty lil sucker being able to run away so easily. But good video, I see a ton of MM that stand still and don't take any action to run away from charging warriors or melee rogues.
    <Retired>

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    Sword of Telara taugrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffreys View Post
    Does running into walls and tripping on pebbles count as proper kiting? If so, I'm good.
    Hahaha, we've all done it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffreys View Post
    But actually, I've seen more backpedallers and statues of all classes since launch. More pve players discovering pvp maybe. Which is good and they'll benefit from your well done video.
    I hope that players see videos like this and consider making adjustments to their gameplay, in particular practicing how to pre-kite and kite.

    That being said, I've talked to players about improving their kiting technique, and there's often resistance to it, even when they know that it will make them a better player.

    Why?
    1. it requires a lot of practice
    2. it often requires a significant change to keybindings and hotkey setup, and it takes a lot of practice to incorporate changes into muscle memory, and that process can be quite frustrating to work through

    I've spent many hours against target dummies and mobs trying out different keybindings / hotkey setups. I have *finally* found a good setup that I can use in any game for any class, without a gaming keyboard or gaming mouse.

    Here is the video Guide I made on strafing / keybindings a few months ago:
    http://taugrim.com/2011/04/07/rift-w...t-keybindings/

    It has diagrams of hotkey setup and other stuff.
    Last edited by taugrim; 10-08-2011 at 09:52 AM.
    Taugrim
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    Sword of Telara taugrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigruz View Post
    I would hate to play against you because you seem to be a shifty lil sucker being able to run away so easily.
    IMO anyone can learn to kite, with practice.

    The extent to which a player gets really good at it has to do with hand-eye coordination, awareness, and how much practice they're willing to put into it.

    But I think a lot of players can get proficient enough with it to make a noticeable improvement in their gameplay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftspell View Post
    Iam acually surprised that no NB/RS rogue showed up and focus fired you couse then u wouldn't get away that easy. But still, well played.
    I run away bravely when I see a high-ranked NB/RS. Same goes against the high-ranked R8 Warriors. Especially players whose names I recognize.

    When they close the distance to me, I basically have to focus on kiting / dealing with them and can't do much else, or I'll eat dirt. If they're going to get me, they're going to have to work for it
    Taugrim
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    Ascendant Tigruz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taugrim View Post
    IMO anyone can learn to kite, with practice.

    The extent to which a player gets really good at it has to do with hand-eye coordination, awareness, and how much practice they're willing to put into it.

    But I think a lot of players can get proficient enough with it to make a noticeable improvement in their gameplay.



    I run away bravely when I see a high-ranked NB/RS. Same goes against the high-ranked R8 Warriors. Especially players whose names I recognize.

    When they close the distance to me, I basically have to focus on kiting / dealing with them and can't do much else, or I'll eat dirt. If they're going to get me, they're going to have to work for it
    Oh haha I can kite, I just hate playing against people who know how to escape really well. It drives me insane.
    <Retired>

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    Sword of Telara taugrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigruz View Post
    Oh haha I can kite, I just hate playing against people who know how to escape really well. It drives me insane.
    As soon as I realize a player can kite well, I switch targets if others are available. It's not worth the time chasing someone down, in a warfront at least. Of course, if the kiter is the EFC you may have no choice

    Kiting is also a great deterrent. When I get attacked and I start kiting, sometimes people give up in search of more stationary targets.

    Those who over-pursue me, I try to kite away from their friendlies, so we can kill them.
    Last edited by taugrim; 10-08-2011 at 08:41 AM.
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    Qia
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    No, most people don't even consider about kiting.

    They just suck so bad it's beyond reason, like really beyond reason.

    Sometimes I want to when I see how bad some players are.
    Last edited by Qia; 10-08-2011 at 09:05 AM.
    Ip

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    Plane Walker
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    Tau why didn't you try to tell the rogue bads how to play BEFORE they got overbuffed? Now it's just making it worse for anyone trying to close a gap

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    The number of marksmen that backpedal baffles me, as do the number that fail to realize they have the strong sprint in the game until I am already on top of them and they are stunned.
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    Qia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranik View Post
    Tau why didn't you try to tell the rogue bads how to play BEFORE they got overbuffed? Now it's just making it worse for anyone trying to close a gap
    It has nothing to do with bad Rogues being overbuffed.

    Rogues just sucked prior to 1.5 as soon as you met a Warrior/Cleric/Mage/Bard combo.
    Ip

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    Sword of Telara taugrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paper View Post
    backpedal baffles me
    I have a theory on why some RDPS backpedal and why some players keyboard turn, mouse-click abilities, etc.

    Most players get used to their keybinds and movement in PVE, where mob movement and behavior is largely predictable.

    Players can function and even function well in PVE even with keyboard turning, mouse-clicking, backpedaling, etc. Mobs are programmed within a tight set of parameters.

    Human opponents are another story altogether.

    Skilled players will melee-strafe (if they're MDPS) or kite-strafe (if they're RDPS or a healer) the backpedaling / keyboard-turning / mouse-clicking ones to death. I have recorded footage from other games melee-strafing opponents to death with them barely scratching me, because I'm circling them faster than they can keyboard turn. Or kite-strafed stronger opponents to death because they couldn't handle a mobile target.

    I strongly suspect that a lot of the players who are complaining that they are too squishy - especially the RDPS - are not leveraging the built-in game mechanics that provide survivability in the first place.

    RDPS classes in RIFT enjoy the farthest feeling range (30-35m) I've experienced in any MMORPG. People can hit one another from a great distance. And most RDPS specs have getaway abilities or talents to create gaps and enable them to reach the magical 21m distance needed to get away from MDPS.

    Yes, there are LoS obstructions in warfronts. It has rarely if ever been an issue for me when I'm RDPS'ing, because I'm playing the angles and LoS to my advantage.
    Last edited by taugrim; 10-08-2011 at 10:34 AM.
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    Fik
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    Try that on a mage now.
    Last edited by Fik; 10-08-2011 at 09:54 AM.

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    Sword of Telara taugrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fik View Post
    Try that on a mage now.
    It wouldn't be an issue for me.

    There are multiple Mage specs that have good kiting mechanics, and they all have 30m range, which in this game feels very far.
    Last edited by taugrim; 10-08-2011 at 10:14 AM.
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