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Thread: MM and Vampiric Munitions

  1. #1
    Ascendant Acex's Avatar
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    Default MM and Vampiric Munitions

    MM survivability is mobility and they shouldn't have siphon at all.

    Leave siphon only to NB and put back to 32 pt root.
    But if leave Fell Blades at where they are, then rework Anathema because now it's useless ability.
    Adalie r8 Rogue - Icewatch
    Acex r6 Cleric - Icewatch
    Gran r8 warrior - Icewatch

  2. #2
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    trion clearly disagrees.

    Personally I'd have preferred a castable uncleansable heal debuff on a cd, however they did listen to community concerns about overpowered healers and gave us a counter.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple CarnageBC's Avatar
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    Disagree.

    It's fine.
    Carnage R8 Rogue

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarnageBC View Post
    Disagree.

    It's fine.
    I agree, it is so fine warriors should get it too. *thumbs up*
    Zerosix - Warrior
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    Its fine the way it is. Too many people b!tching cause just before 1.5 everyone was complaining about theres too much healing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vindicit View Post
    Its fine the way it is. Too many people b!tching cause just before 1.5 everyone was complaining about theres too much healing.
    If by "everyone" you mean "the occasional thread". Hell, there were just as many threads about LW. Now there's new threads every day about heal debuffs.

    -Liang

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liang Nuren View Post
    If by "everyone" you mean "the occasional thread". Hell, there were just as many threads about LW. Now there's new threads every day about heal debuffs.

    -Liang
    Actually no... It was basically everyone.... You just read what you want to read.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Liang Nuren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vindicit View Post
    Actually no... It was basically everyone.... You just read what you want to read.
    Actually no... It was basically a couple people.... You just read what you want to read.

    Yep.

    -Liang

  9. #9
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    IMHO healing is still fine in WFs. The team with the heals still wins. Where's the problem here?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrnation View Post
    IMHO healing is still fine in WFs. The team with the heals still wins. Where's the problem here?
    QFT. But, since the healers can be pressured from range with meaningful damage (no one complains about the rogue damage boost) in combination of VM type heal buffs to the rogue, healers can no longer stand in the back and be untouchable while they keep up their best melee class that is driving the wedge into the enemy. This, I think, is the real but unspoken reason for the QQ about VM. The VM debuff doesn't stack on the healer from multiple rogues but it can be reapplied quickly by any rogue in range, so the healer has to position to avoid that -- and the team has to protect the healer (and now they have reason to protect, so healers just might get protected better). In a good response to the use of VM the affected healer stops healing and runs out of range while their team does a focus on the rogue who is no longer getting heals - forcing the rogue to withdraw because the rogue is not getting VM benefit to keep health up.

    Fan Out is just about the weakest ranged AoE that a rogue has, so only stupid rogues spam it if their health is good and only stupid ones use it if they don't see some enemy healer waving their hands in the air and within range. VM derives no benefit from heals being made by their own team healers. VM effects only heal the rogue who applies VM, it doesn't heal anyone else.

    So the problem is that the center wedge attack has less of a chance of working because the healer can't be guaranteed safety at range anymore, the rogue has been introduced as a threat for situations where a team can not get a melee over to threaten the healer. This changes the game tactic mechanics. This is the unspoken reason for QQ about VM, not that VM is over powered since its benefits can be negated by use of proper tactics. This indirectly strains the melee classes because now they really need to protect their healers. It leads to lots of QQ presented with false logic that deals only with 1v1 instead of team tactics.

    The rogue is not OP from 1.5 since proper team tactics can take them down, just like it takes proper team tactics to take down a healer, caster, or melee class. This IS balance, or at minimum a step in the right direction.
    Last edited by Taptap; 10-04-2011 at 10:13 AM.
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  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    "I should be able to heal my self but rogues shouldn't be able to recieve any kind of healing at all please make me op again trion"

    Nice post op thats what i heard

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Liang Nuren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    "I should be able to heal my self but rogues shouldn't be able to recieve any kind of healing at all please make me op again trion"

    Nice post op thats what i heard
    "I should be able to simultaneously put out some of the highest DPS in the game as well as have fantastic utility as well as have the best range as well as be guaranteed a kill vs anyone trying to heal themselves"

    Nice post Zyzyx, that's what I heard.

    -Liang

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liang Nuren View Post
    "I should be able to simultaneously put out some of the highest DPS in the game as well as have fantastic utility as well as have the best range as well as be guaranteed a kill vs anyone trying to heal themselves"

    Nice post Zyzyx, that's what I heard.

    -Liang
    Learn 2 Purge

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taptap View Post
    QFT. But, since the healers can be pressured from range with meaningful damage (no one complains about the rogue damage boost) in combination of VM type heal buffs to the rogue, healers can no longer stand in the back and be untouchable while they keep up their best melee class that is driving the wedge into the enemy. This, I think, is the real but unspoken reason for the QQ about VM. The VM debuff doesn't stack on the healer from multiple rogues but it can be reapplied quickly by any rogue in range, so the healer has to position to avoid that -- and the team has to protect the healer (and now they have reason to protect, so healers just might get protected better). In a good response to the use of VM the affected healer stops healing and runs out of range while their team does a focus on the rogue who is no longer getting heals - forcing the rogue to withdraw because the rogue is not getting VM benefit to keep health up.

    Fan Out is just about the weakest ranged AoE that a rogue has, so only stupid rogues spam it if their health is good and only stupid ones use it if they don't see some enemy healer waving their hands in the air and within range. VM derives no benefit from heals being made by their own team healers. VM effects only heal the rogue who applies VM, it doesn't heal anyone else.

    So the problem is that the center wedge attack has less of a chance of working because the healer can't be guaranteed safety at range anymore, the rogue has been introduced as a threat for situations where a team can not get a melee over to threaten the healer. This changes the game tactic mechanics. This is the unspoken reason for QQ about VM, not that VM is over powered since its benefits can be negated by use of proper tactics. This indirectly strains the melee classes because now they really need to protect their healers. It leads to lots of QQ presented with false logic that deals only with 1v1 instead of team tactics.

    The rogue is not OP from 1.5 since proper team tactics can take them down, just like it takes proper team tactics to take down a healer, caster, or melee class. This IS balance, or at minimum a step in the right direction.
    So this is turn makes warriors absolutely useless because they get zero heals, and "tactics" are nothing more than an AoE slug fest. And no healers didn't just stand there in guaranteed safety. Before rogue's became more powerful than warriors, warriors led the charge to ATTACK enemy healers, the team was suppose to assist warrior targets. This was a decent strategic mechanic. No game have I ever been in has my team won if we did not attack healers, so I dont understand where you learned that healers never got touched before rogue's recieved godmode.

    But now, melee classes are obsolete, AoE reigns surpeme, and healers are quitting in droves because mass applied, straight 50% healing debuffs make it very unfun. Several MMO's have learned this, most notably World of Warcraft, hence why they stopped doing it. It's horrible design.

    PS. I'm guessing you're a rogue

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pallama View Post
    ... Before rogue's became more powerful than warriors ..
    Awfully big (and, more to the point, incorrect) assumption.

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