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Thread: Do not nerf rogues, Do this instead !!!!!

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJoyTheSilence View Post
    So it is ok for rogues to have the nightblade/riftstalker/bladedancer aka warrior 2.0 spec? It had more mit than warriors due to a percentage absorb shield that is always up, a charge, hits like a truck, has elemental damage, immunity cooldowns, a healing debuffs with healing siphon, healing cds, and a blink...

    It is a far better war than any war.

    We need either more mit or more self heals for our non sword and board builds. Right now we are completely out classed. In a 1.5 world with no heals, being a warrior is the lowest of the lows.
    Rift Barrier shields 15%, less than the amount Plate Mitigates, and roughly equivalent to the additional HP warriors have.

    If someone is running NB/RS/BD just CC them. They have 0 CC breaks. Their entire durability is based off of 5 Defensive cooldowns: Planar refuge, Twilight Shelter, Twilight Transcendence, Blackout and Side Steps.
    So, for ~45 Seconds they can tank very well. However the average damage reduction is really less than 30% during that time.
    Blackout doesn't stop DoTs and certain abilities, Transcend doesn't cure blleeds or LW, side steps doesn't effect magic damage and Twilight shelter reduces the NBs damage by 40%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeth View Post
    Rift Barrier shields 15%, less than the amount Plate Mitigates, and roughly equivalent to the additional HP warriors have.

    If someone is running NB/RS/BD just CC them. They have 0 CC breaks. Their entire durability is based off of 5 Defensive cooldowns: Planar refuge, Twilight Shelter, Twilight Transcendence, Blackout and Side Steps.
    So, for ~45 Seconds they can tank very well. However the average damage reduction is really less than 30% during that time.
    Blackout doesn't stop DoTs and certain abilities, Transcend doesn't cure blleeds or LW, side steps doesn't effect magic damage and Twilight shelter reduces the NBs damage by 40%.
    None of this makes your argument better, infact it makes it worse. Plate only mitigates physical damage aka only marksman, as everyone else uses ele dmg.

    Those defensive cds are icing on the cake, and that is way more than I even knew you had. Congrats, I now feel even less of my warrior.
    Last edited by NJoyTheSilence; 10-05-2011 at 06:25 AM.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJoyTheSilence View Post
    So it is ok for rogues to have the nightblade/riftstalker/bladedancer aka warrior 2.0 spec? It had more mit than warriors due to a percentage absorb shield that is always up, a charge, hits like a truck, has elemental damage, immunity cooldowns, a healing debuffs with healing siphon, healing cds, and a blink...

    It is a far better war than any war.

    We need either more mit or more self heals for our non sword and board builds. Right now we are completely out classed. In a 1.5 world with no heals, being a warrior is the lowest of the lows.
    If someone is running RS/NB/BD then have someone purge them and someone stun them, they have no way to break CC.

    Once they're stunned and purged they drop as fast as anyone else.

    Pretty easy to counter that build if you play as a team and don't try to go Rambo 1v1. What you want is for Warriors to have an "I win button" for everything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilisette View Post
    If someone is running RS/NB/BD then have someone purge them and someone stun them, they have no way to break CC.

    Once they're stunned and purged they drop as fast as anyone else.

    Pretty easy to counter that build if you play as a team and don't try to go Rambo 1v1. What you want is for Warriors to have an "I win button" for everything.
    Nah i want equality, You just wanna stay op. Btw warriors have one purge and it has a long cd. Not everyone can spam purge like you rogues.


    I just want some heals, kid. Nothing game breaking.
    Last edited by NJoyTheSilence; 10-05-2011 at 10:44 AM.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilisette View Post
    If someone is running RS/NB/BD then have someone purge them and someone stun them, they have no way to break CC.

    Once they're stunned and purged they drop as fast as anyone else.

    Pretty easy to counter that build if you play as a team and don't try to go Rambo 1v1. What you want is for Warriors to have an "I win button" for everything.
    haha.. thats kinda funny...

    CC.. riftstalker??? it has a 25 sec CD CC break lols.. 'rift scavenge'-teleports you to your target and removes all controll and movement impairing effects.. 16? point move.. they do a good deal less dps than warriors, they are more leaching tanks than anything (you probably saw a P8 one, anything P8 hits hard, like those sword and board tanks >.<)

    Purging one is impossible without eradicate though. My RS has 5 out of combat self buffs, about 7 more that pop up when combat starts and also 3-15 general warfront buffs to top it off... anything besides a concentrated eradicate spam won't hit it... even if it does i have it hotkeyed so i can just pop it up again.. if an eradicate emptied my bar all I have to do is RS teleport to put up 4 cover buffs then reaply fell blades then the 1-2 fallow up moves (depending on spec) will put up another 1-3 cover buffs making nothing but another eradicate spam have a chance at getting it...

    warriors still have unmatched dps, and with a pocket healer can take down people any RS/NB/BD could only scratch, that is the trade-off, survivability for dps... it might be a bit in favor of rogues but i think Trion wants us to have a few lols before the waves of nerfing starts
    Last edited by garethh; 10-05-2011 at 12:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJoyTheSilence View Post
    None of this makes your argument better, infact it makes it worse. Plate only mitigates physical damage aka only marksman, as everyone else uses ele dmg.

    Those defensive cds are icing on the cake, and that is way more than I even knew you had. Congrats, I now feel even less of my warrior.
    most dps never go over 20 points NB because you give up consistent dps for a wee bit of spike dps and 2 defensive CDs... that leaves the only defensive CDs they have to be twilight shelter (80% less inc mdg for 8 secs, 40% less outgoing dmg) and planar resilience? (30% less inc dmg for 10 secs) that with around a passive 23% RS dmg reduction is the most tank-dps you can get, it means you have to relly on heal leaching more than anything to survive...

    that means the spec is counterable, killing the guy before he gets very many procs off, a well played non blindly heal spamming healer or a persistent MM can keep one down, but the last is only because eradicate is extremely OP compared to any other purge
    Last edited by garethh; 10-05-2011 at 12:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by garethh View Post
    haha.. thats kinda funny...

    CC.. riftstalker??? it has a 25 sec CD CC break lols.. 'rift scavenge'-teleports you to your target and removes all controll and movement impairing effects.. 16? point move.. they do a good deal less dps than warriors, they are more leaching tanks than anything (you probably saw a P8 one, anything P8 hits hard, like those sword and board tanks >.<)

    Purging one is impossible without eradicate though. My RS has 5 out of combat self buffs, about 7 more that pop up when combat starts and also 3-15 general warfront buffs to top it off... anything besides a concentrated eradicate spam won't hit it... even if it does i have it hotkeyed so i can just pop it up again.. if an eradicate emptied my bar all I have to do is RS teleport to put up 4 cover buffs then reaply fell blades then the 1-2 fallow up moves (depending on spec) will put up another 1-3 cover buffs making nothing but another eradicate spam have a chance at getting it...

    warriors still have unmatched dps, and with a pocket healer can take down people any RS/NB/BD could only scratch, that is the trade-off, survivability for dps... it might be a bit in favor of rogues but i think Trion wants us to have a few lols before the waves of nerfing starts
    Teleports work while rooted, but will not work while stunned/feared.

    "Rift Scavenge[r]" heals you if your Combo point target dies.

    Nice try.

    Re:Plate Armor - This is always funny to me. Plate is powerful that it makes all physical damage in the game useless, negating: Shaman, Druid, Justicar, Champion, Paragon, Beast Master and Blade Dancer souls.

    But it is "useless"? It is so damn good it obsoletes half the specs in the ****ing game.

    Plate armor determined the metagame "do non-physical damage or don't bother", but warriors cry about it being useless. When your passive ability alone determine the metagame for an entire MMO it is extremely powerful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeth View Post
    Teleports work while rooted, but will not work while stunned/feared.

    "Rift Scavenge[r]" heals you if your Combo point target dies.

    Nice try.

    Re:Plate Armor - This is always funny to me. Plate is powerful that it makes all physical damage in the game useless, negating: Shaman, Druid, Justicar, Champion, Paragon, Beast Master and Blade Dancer souls.

    But it is "useless"? It is so damn good it obsoletes half the specs in the ****ing game.

    Plate armor determined the metagame "do non-physical damage or don't bother", but warriors cry about it being useless. When your passive ability alone determine the metagame for an entire MMO it is extremely powerful.
    The souls you listed are not used often, if all in pvp. It is a non issue because everyone has an elemental build that works around it making it obsolete. If people were forced to use physical damage, then it would matter, but it doesn't.

    Trion also feels plate shouldn't do anything or the would not have gave MM armor pen and elemental damage procs.

    What wars would gain in plate others make up I would damage reduction cds. In a game where elemental damage is everywhere and everything, warriors just wind up sol while others get defence.

    This is another reason warriors in 1.5 are not happy. It is much harder to be a frontline fighter with all the new incoming damage, and we do not have a ranged option. Warriors are being made to be sneaky and be scavengers like rogues should be, while rogues prance around in the open with big defence.

    Btw the reason why Trion allows this to happen is due to ease of balancing. Fixing the armor problem would allow many specs to be used and have to be balanced. The biggest reason for the warrior physical damage nerf is so we would have to use riiftblade. This made balancing entirely easier for them. Notice all the big guns were given to mm in the latest patch. They gave you a bone while keeping you in a spec they can regulate. You are being herded and do not even know it.
    Last edited by NJoyTheSilence; 10-05-2011 at 12:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeth View Post
    Teleports work while rooted, but will not work while stunned/feared.

    "Rift Scavenge[r]" heals you if your Combo point target dies.
    shadow stalk, srry got the name wrong, and it specifically does work while stunned/feared.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeth View Post
    Plate armor determined the metagame "do non-physical damage or don't bother", but warriors cry about it being useless. When your passive ability alone determine the metagame for an entire MMO it is extremely powerful.
    20% bonus dmg reduction by no means makes all physical dps classes obselete, most of my dps are from bladedancer (physical) and i kill allot of dps warriors in deuls...
    Last edited by garethh; 10-05-2011 at 01:09 PM.

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    the 20% is the difference between warrior and rogue armor values. I used this instead of the 40% or so armor warriors get since you never fight anyone with 0% armor...

    if you say physical dmg is useless... you have no idea what you are talking about. Shaman hits like a truck against plate or cloth, warriors even more so.. they are extremely viable PvP specs...
    Last edited by garethh; 10-05-2011 at 01:28 PM.

  11. #71
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    Its strange to keep seeing people posting that rogues are OP. Im just not used to seeing that on the forums

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilisette View Post
    Warriors do have ways of self healing plus they have a ton of passive survivability plus plate armour. I think giving Warriors a syphon would unbalance things. Even with the self healing added, Rogues are still squishy as hell, even the NB/RS speced ones.
    If you PVP at all you'd realize warriors are wearing leather in many cases because plate has very little benefits. Warriors do not self heal... unless you count 10 min heals or the miniscule 20 hp every few seconds from tank specs.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrinx View Post
    not very logical giving classes the same abilitys, we're diffrent callings for a reason...

    + you get heal on block which is pretty much a constant proc
    Seriously?

    To get the self heal you have to spec deep in pally. I heals for a small amount (2-300 as I recall) on BLOCK. Warrs in pvp gear don't block all that often, and as far as I'm aware it only works against melee attacks...and who the h*ll uses those these days?

    I usually get less than 1000 health back in a typical WF from blocking heals.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJoyTheSilence View Post
    The souls you listed are not used often, if all in pvp. It is a non issue because everyone has an elemental build that works around it making it obsolete. If people were forced to use physical damage, then it would matter, but it doesn't.

    Trion also feels plate shouldn't do anything or the would not have gave MM armor pen and elemental damage procs.

    What wars would gain in plate others make up I would damage reduction cds. In a game where elemental damage is everywhere and everything, warriors just wind up sol while others get defence.

    This is another reason warriors in 1.5 are not happy. It is much harder to be a frontline fighter with all the new incoming damage, and we do not have a ranged option. Warriors are being made to be sneaky and be scavengers like rogues should be, while rogues prance around in the open with big defence.

    Btw the reason why Trion allows this to happen is due to ease of balancing. Fixing the armor problem would allow many specs to be used and have to be balanced. The biggest reason for the warrior physical damage nerf is so we would have to use riiftblade. This made balancing entirely easier for them. Notice all the big guns were given to mm in the latest patch. They gave you a bone while keeping you in a spec they can regulate. You are being herded and do not even know it.
    You're completely missing the point.

    Those souls aren't used BECAUSE of plate.

    Physical damage does just fine against Rogues and Mages. But until 1.5 Clerics and Warriors were the power houses in PvP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeth View Post
    You're completely missing the point.

    Those souls aren't used BECAUSE of plate.

    Physical damage does just fine against Rogues and Mages. But until 1.5 Clerics and Warriors were the power houses in PvP.
    No, these souls are not used because trion has not handled the armor problem. This is a tactic used by them to make balancing easier. Physical damage from warriors does little, even to mages. This is due to nerfs trion made to herd warriors to riftblade. You are missing the point, this is not for warriors to mitigate phys damage. This is so trion can lock off pvp to a low amount of builds. thus making it easier to balance. The metagame is currently centered around spell damage and armor pen, something all classes have access to. Trion did this on purpose.

    You can say what you want, but plate plays little in endgame pvp for these reasons. Me asking for some self heals is not overpowered or wrong in any way. In a 1.5 world where healers do not wanna heal because of some belief that healing is useless and benefits rogues too much, warriors need some heals.

    Funny though, most healers do not realize that this is trion's way of handling the healing super issue, without having to nerf healing.

    It is honestly shocking that more people do not know how things work.

    Btw I will not give away names, but I know people who have talked to devs that sort of hint at all that I just said.

    Sometimes people need to look at the bigger picture. Small warrior self heals still allow for warriors to be bursted down by the new incoming damage from armor pen/elemental proc MMs without causing them to be unkillable by adding in more Mit.
    Last edited by NJoyTheSilence; 10-05-2011 at 02:54 PM.
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