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Thread: Does anybody fear a Warrior as much as a Rogue now?

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser
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    Default Does anybody fear a Warrior as much as a Rogue now?

    It was Trion's intent that Rogues were to be feared as much as Warriors. I believe that Trion has failed because Rogues are much more feared then Warriors now.

  2. #2
    Rift Master A Mage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarbane View Post
    It was Trion's intent that Rogues were to be feared as much as Warriors. I believe that Trion has failed because Rogues are much more feared then Warriors now.
    Well, seeing as warriors were nerfed and rogues were given god powers, the answer is no. Rogues are way worse.
    Last edited by A Mage; 10-01-2011 at 11:28 PM.
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    Ascendant Magnos's Avatar
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    I certainly don't fear warriors anymore, unless they have a shield.

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    I don't fear anyone anymore. Eat my munitions!
    I'm so BORED

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    It is an interesting discussion - what a player should fear the most, eh? Should all Callings possibly be feared equally? Should there be no paper, scissors, rock? Or should there be?

    That is one of the more common debates, no?

    Should a Rogue fear another Rogue, a Warrior, a Cleric, and a Mage all the same?
    Should a Warrior fear another Warrior, a Cleric, a Mage, and a Rogue all the same?
    Should a Cleric fear another Cleric, a Mage, a Rogue, and a Warrior all the same?
    Should a Mage fear another Mage, a Rogue, a Warrior, and a Cleric all the same?

    Or should that PSR system exist? Should A Calling have a potential advantage over B Calling? B over D? C over A? As the myriad of possibilities goes around and around, eh?

    Obviously, given the illusion of choice offered by the Ascended Class System - the latter could not really apply, could it? A Ranged ST DPS Cleric is not the same as a Ranged AoE DPS Cleric, nor a Melee DPS Cleric, nor a Healing Cleric - with there being multiple types of Healing Clerics available...before we even get into the mix of hybrids out there.

    That being said, I would think that the former would be the best option as the base. Each Calling should have the equal potential to be feared. From there, it will obviously come down to builds - some will be better against certain types of targets than others. That is where we get into the sticky fun mess.

    I found it odd for Trion to say we should fear the Rogue as much as we do the Warrior now. It should have been a case of saying that we should fear the Rogue as much as we do the Cleric, Mage, and Warrior now. That was not the case...was it?

    It highlights the root problem that exists with Trion's conceptualization of how balance should exist, eh?

    I say we should fear all equally up to the point we can see their buffs and engage... and let the fun proceed at that point.

    It seems rather obvious to me... how about to you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirusDancer View Post
    It is an interesting discussion - what a player should fear the most, eh? Should all Callings possibly be feared equally? Should there be no paper, scissors, rock? Or should there be?

    That is one of the more common debates, no?

    Should a Rogue fear another Rogue, a Warrior, a Cleric, and a Mage all the same?
    Should a Warrior fear another Warrior, a Cleric, a Mage, and a Rogue all the same?
    Should a Cleric fear another Cleric, a Mage, a Rogue, and a Warrior all the same?
    Should a Mage fear another Mage, a Rogue, a Warrior, and a Cleric all the same?

    Or should that PSR system exist? Should A Calling have a potential advantage over B Calling? B over D? C over A? As the myriad of possibilities goes around and around, eh?

    Obviously, given the illusion of choice offered by the Ascended Class System - the latter could not really apply, could it? A Ranged ST DPS Cleric is not the same as a Ranged AoE DPS Cleric, nor a Melee DPS Cleric, nor a Healing Cleric - with there being multiple types of Healing Clerics available...before we even get into the mix of hybrids out there.

    That being said, I would think that the former would be the best option as the base. Each Calling should have the equal potential to be feared. From there, it will obviously come down to builds - some will be better against certain types of targets than others. That is where we get into the sticky fun mess.

    I found it odd for Trion to say we should fear the Rogue as much as we do the Warrior now. It should have been a case of saying that we should fear the Rogue as much as we do the Cleric, Mage, and Warrior now. That was not the case...was it?

    It highlights the root problem that exists with Trion's conceptualization of how balance should exist, eh?

    I say we should fear all equally up to the point we can see their buffs and engage... and let the fun proceed at that point.

    It seems rather obvious to me... how about to you?
    You sir, win an internet.

    To answer the question as my cleric main, however, I may have a surprise for you: I still fear nobody. I am the same bunny hoppy ******** ****** cleric you all hate so much.

    Last edited by Shannae; 10-02-2011 at 07:50 AM.
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  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Tbh I think talking about "feared" classes sounds a bit dramatic for a largely zerg based WF system.
    Last edited by zoofar; 10-02-2011 at 09:53 AM.

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    Get rid of all heal debuffs, just make everything OP damage in a myriad of specs and "playstyles" (like range, vs. ST vs. melee. vs AoE) and balance healing around it.

    It's the only sensible "get 'er done, no matter how ugly it looks" implementation that I think would work with all of the soul combinations.

    With the kill announcers, it's obvious that PvP in this game is supposed to be a casual, light-hearted, frag-fest. Let's just bite the bullet and make the transition complete. Trying to straddle both a respectable skill-based PvP game and a casual PvP game is killing balance/implementation/framework.
    Last edited by Puzzlebox; 10-02-2011 at 10:01 AM.
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  9. #9
    Ascendant Cromagis's Avatar
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    Currently I fear....

    Rogue
    Mage
    Cleric
    Warrior

    It used to be

    Mage
    Cleric
    Warrior
    Rogue
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shannae View Post
    You sir, win an internet.

    To answer the question as my cleric main, however, I may have a surprise for you: I still fear nobody. I am the same bunny hoppy ******** ****** cleric you all hate so much.

    This about sums it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  11. #11
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    Yes we seem to be employing the "Rock, paper, scissors, thermonuclear device" PVP model at the moment.

    To be fair as much as it irritates me, if I was the balancer I'm not sure I'd be any better at it than Trion-It can't be easy.

    I do wonder in my ignorance though.... Is it not possible to tune classes on a 1v1 basis??

    So 1 pure flat stats heal build(-read that as 95% Heal 5% DPS) Should stalemate with one pure DPS build (95% DPS 5% self heal) -That means they cant kill each other if they both play equally well.

    Two DPS builds should, give or take luck with crits etc, be an even toss as to who wins.

    Tank 90% defence 10% DPS balances against 90% DPS 10% Defence.

    Now if things were balanced like that by Trion using all the optimal builds for the different classes the rest would sort itself out??Maybe?? Or am I being naieve?
    Last edited by Torvax; 10-02-2011 at 10:11 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarbane View Post
    It was Trion's intent that Rogues were to be feared as much as Warriors. I believe that Trion has failed because Rogues are much more feared then Warriors now.
    I've never "feared" a calling/class in this game's PvP.

    It's the specific players who have earned my respect as skilled opponents, if anything, that one could say I "fear".

    Anyone else always has been, and always will be, Favor on legs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RavingLunatic View Post
    I've never "feared" a calling/class in this game's PvP.

    It's the specific players who have earned my respect as skilled opponents, if anything, that one could say I "fear".

    Anyone else always has been, and always will be, Favor on legs.
    Im not suggesting for a moment that you Rogues had a fun class to play. I do think though you've never had a reason to fear any other classes. You could always get out if things looked like they were going bad.

    Open world PVP against rogues was always a nightmare unless I was in my anti rogue pvp build.

  14. #14
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    I used the word "Fear" because that is the word Trion used in their patch notes saying that people should "Fear" rogues as much as they fear warriors after 1.5. I am just asking if people fear warriors now as much as rogues.

  15. #15
    Champion of Telara Adeezha's Avatar
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    I fear Warriors and Rogues equally. The amount of fear is open to debate though.
    Last edited by Adeezha; 10-02-2011 at 01:27 PM.

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