+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 33
Like Tree18Likes

Thread: Trions fatally flawed PvP design

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    37

    Default Trions fatally flawed PvP design

    I'm not sure if Trion gets the vicious cycle they've created in PvP that's making it pointless/frustrating to play for casual players, new 50s, and people who like playing alts,

    In short, they've created a 'rich get richer, poor get poorer' model, with no way to break the pattern.

    I'm seeing one faction in various battlegroups get ahead in Rank and gear, and then it becomes a total nightmare for other faction. Then it's all fun for the winning faction, and the other faction (in my case Guardians) don't even really try anymore, as it's an exercise in futility.

    Here's how it goes for the side that's ahead:
    win WF -> more favor/ranks -> better gear -> more wins -> more favor/ranks -> even better gear -> etc

    They've basically designed a game where once you get ahead, the other guy can never catch up. Because even if Mr. Rank 3 sucks it up and and keeps playing, he's going to have to fight Mr Rank 7-8, gets 2-3 shotted, probably loses the match and gets less Favor. Keep fighting, and you just feed Mr Rank 7 more favor, or give up, and well, you may as well /cancel.

    And when you have R8s rolling R2-3s, hate to break to you, it's NOT about skill, when you can kill someone in 2-3 shots, and they, as someone else so aptly put 'can barely scratch the paint on your armor', why would expect them to want to keep playing?

    Trion, wake up before it's too late. I've already cancelled my sub, 11 days left. Might consider coming back if they bracket the WFs or do something to help those of us with jobs/kids and limited free time.

  2. #2
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,703

    Default

    I doubt this will happen. They already buffed your valor.
    Chronicar Rank 6 mage
    <Squab Squad>

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronicar View Post
    I doubt this will happen. They already buffed your valor.
    Buffed 'whose' valor? They made it even across all ranks, ok, and? Rank 2s get 3 shotted now instead of 2 shotted, didn't really change that much. The stat difference between rank 1-2 and 7-8 is still so huge that flattening out Valor was like putting a band-aid on a torn jugular

    Most people I know and play with wanted bracketed WFs, Trion ignored it, and so you still have a game where if you're not R7 or R8, WFs are just going to suck most days.

    A lot of people's 3 and 6 months subs are about to end, I think the game's going to take a hit on population soon. That, or, from the sounds of it, a lot of people are just biding their time until GW2 or SWTOR come out.

  4. #4
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,703

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Morpeth View Post
    Buffed 'whose' valor? They made it even across all ranks, ok, and? Rank 2s get 3 shotted now instead of 2 shotted, didn't really change that much. The stat difference between rank 1-2 and 7-8 is still so huge that flattening out Valor was like putting a band-aid on a torn jugular

    Most people I know and play with wanted bracketed WFs, Trion ignored it, and so you still have a game where if you're not R7 or R8, WFs are just going to suck most days.

    A lot of people's 3 and 6 months subs are about to end, I think the game's going to take a hit on population soon. That, or, from the sounds of it, a lot of people are just biding their time until GW2 or SWTOR come out.
    Well I am sure all the non guardians that have to wait 10-15 minutes to get a WF would love to have the population split so they can take even longer to get in a WF. If you are getting 3 shot spec survivability.
    Chronicar Rank 6 mage
    <Squab Squad>

  5. #5
    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    4,172

    Default

    I have a job/limited play time and I'm Rank 6. It doesn't take very long.
    Even free cost too much now

  6. #6
    Champion of Telara Adeezha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,231

    Default

    The PvE in this game, outside of top end stuff, is far too easy. You can go for several levels without dying. Some people who get into WF at 50 just can't accept the amount of deaths they will run into, or won't adapt their playstyle to compensate for the relative lack of brute force power in the lower ranks. Not everyone can be the pro frontline KB merchant, but everyone can contribute to a match win in some way. Just a matter of adapting.

  7. #7
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    88

    Default

    Based on what I've seen since beta, Trion added pvp as an after thought in hopes it would suck in subs. Dex is a ripoff of WoW's AB and sadly the only decent WF in the collection. People only play WS when its "escalated". BG on our shard is now the home of Guard premades which make it the most boring 5 minutes in the whole game.

    Tion's not going to fix anything. They are about to serve up excrement sammich 1.5 soon in hopes of keeping you around for another month. Sad thing is, there's nothing better out right now for pvpers to play.

  8. #8
    Prophet of Telara Corian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,186

    Default

    That you lose matches doesn't mean Trion's to blame.

    The real flaw is that the players are so unwilling to try that the game's PvP community can't sustain itself.

    And this isn't a Rift problem. I'm worried this spills over to future games like Guild Wars 2 as well.
    This is why we can't have nice things.

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser Osmosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    389

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adeezha View Post
    The PvE in this game, outside of top end stuff, is far too easy. You can go for several levels without dying. Some people who get into WF at 50 just can't accept the amount of deaths they will run into, or won't adapt their playstyle to compensate for the relative lack of brute force power in the lower ranks. Not everyone can be the pro frontline KB merchant, but everyone can contribute to a match win in some way. Just a matter of adapting.
    I hate these kinds of statements, no matter how much "adaptation" you do to your playstyle, you will still get killed very quickly by players that outgear you so much. You barely scratch their armor and they can kill you in a few gcd's, this game is about GEAR not adapting....

  10. #10
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmosis View Post
    I hate these kinds of statements, no matter how much "adaptation" you do to your playstyle, you will still get killed very quickly by players that outgear you so much. You barely scratch their armor and they can kill you in a few gcd's, this game is about GEAR not adapting....
    That's the point I'm trying to make. People who say l2p, or adapt, etc -- probably have Rank 8s, and got there well before most of us -- and hence, didn't have to fight Rank 8s to get there. I wonder if they've tried playing with new 50s in Rank 1-2 gear, clearly not.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Delillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    257

    Default

    Morpeth, you are of course right. The gap between p8s and p1s is huge, even with Valor normalization. The gear gap should probably be something like 20% better (at most). Players will continue to play a game to increase their gear advantage even if it is a very small one, but that is clearly not the case here. I suspect though that the gear gap has more to do with the PvE content they designed and so the PvP gear at the top ranks had to be in line with that.

    FWIW though, if you do gut it out, you will become a better player. Playing against other players with a gear advantage should teach you quite a bit about positioning and movement. I'm pretty casual and at p4, the gap between me and the P8s does not seem huge. The gap between me and a p8 who really knows how to play his character is still substantial though. Also, I'm a cleric, so I think that made my experience a little easier because healing is healing.

    I don't think there is any magic option for Trion here now that doesn't alienate a large part of their player base.

    Also if I were a new player now I would try to PvP up through the ranks and save all my favor for hitting 50. Now that you can convert favor into Marks, there really is no cap on favor banked and it means you should be able to fully equip as soon as you hit a prestige rank, as well as getting the right sigil and essences so you can be at 900+ valor at p2. This will make the experience less painful.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    12,128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Morpeth View Post

    In short, they've created a 'rich get richer, poor get poorer' model, with no way to break the pattern.
    Nope. You can only get so powerful, 2 - 3 months of dedicated gaming make it so the rich can't get any richer until a new patch comes out. Nobody gets poorer, you don't lose progress ever. This is so flawed but you can believe it if it makes you feel justified.
    Last edited by Violacea; 09-23-2011 at 12:16 PM.

  13. #13
    Rift Chaser Healsabub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    321

    Default

    And it's only going to get worse without changes.

    When they come out with rank 9 and then 10, the rank 1's will be even more futile.

    When will it end? If this game survives and there's some eventual rank 20, then how is anyone supposed to pvp after dinging 50? If a rank 8 can kill my new 50 in 5 seconds, then a rank 15 or 20 would just basically have to target me and I'm in the gy.

    People that defend the current state of PvP are the ones that were fortunate enough to level to rank 8 along with everyone else and, for some reason, enjoy the lack of competition and being able to kill most players with 2 or 3 abilities. They foolishly label the new 50's as people that "aren't trying", "are lazy", or "are bad players".

    These current rank 8's that have no clue about what the newer 50's are going through need to level an alt to 50, enter a WF, and then tell me how much fun they are having in the graveyard 70% of each match.

    Somehow entering hundreds of warfronts and being completely annihilated every time you are targeted by a high rank player is "earning" the right to have fun. It's ridiculous.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    12,128

    Default

    I had fun and killed people as a r3 - 4 rogue. Honestly I could write like a 2000 word essay on about so many concepts that go over peoples heads.

    Here is one for starters, do you know what making something quicker/easier by proxy is? Do you realize that when r6 was the max rank (not till r8 neared) for a while there were no dailys? No bonus weekends? No 6 month rift birthday? r8 is out and there are more means to get XP and you can do it quicker...bonus weekends are huge. But go ahead, keep focusing on minute points and ignore the whole picture. Everyone move onto the new MMO hailed as the second coming of jesus and complain about stuff there that completely falls under fallible logic and blame everything but yourself for lack of performance and fun. It gets old, fast. I'd say this board is like 1/10th legitimate complaints sometimes and the rest is sore losing. Totally made up statistic but it sure feels like it.
    Last edited by Violacea; 09-23-2011 at 12:37 PM.

  15. #15
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    91

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    I had fun and killed people as a r3 - 4 rogue. Honestly I could write like a 2000 word essay on about so many concepts that go over peoples heads.

    Here is one for starters, do you know what making something quicker/easier by proxy is? Do you realize that when r6 was the max rank (not till r8 neared) for a while there were no dailys? No bonus weekends? No 6 month rift birthday? r8 is out and there are more means to get XP and you can do it quicker...bonus weekends are huge. But go ahead, keep focusing on minute points and ignore the whole picture. Everyone move onto the new MMO hailed as the second coming of jesus and complain about stuff there that completely falls under fallible logic and blame everything but yourself for lack of performance and fun. It gets old, fast. I'd say this board is like 1/10th legitimate complaints sometimes and the rest is sore losing. Totally made up statistic but it sure feels like it.
    totally agree.

    In 1 whole w-e farming scion and 4 days of farming, i'm arealdy r4. It's rly easy to rank up, just play using ur brain and don't rush into r8... farm stone in scion, stay in group and focus the weakest player (there aren'ts 100% of r8 in front of you, but people like you with lower rank).
    You cannot expect be competitive against others players just when you reach lvl50! it's silly and would be totally unfair for people that grind for days of play.
    I accept being crushed in pvp world and I try to play around and have fun (try to fear a r8 into an elite e.g.).

    Overall, i'm tired of this forum, there are 90% of whining posts...
    Last edited by Relicq; 09-23-2011 at 01:05 PM.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts