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Thread: Many Rogues specs are already balanced... why make them overpowered.. sigh

  1. #1
    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    Default Many Rogues specs are already balanced... why make them overpowered.. sigh

    Most Rogues I have no problem with and this is because they are 1) Undergeared or 2) Bad 3)

    However some Rogues in equal gear will give me the fight of my life, harder than rank 8 Warriors.

    I'm talking about Assassins and Marksmen here. Even running Chlorodom spec, and knowing every trick in the book as a rank 8 mage, I struggle against SKILLED assassins and marksmen. It can go either way. When either of us win, the other is usually extremely low on health.

    With the assassin buffs I feel that it will just be a landside loss due to imbalance rather than player skill... and as for Marksmen, I hear complaints of them being nerfed slightly? I don't know, but they were fine as they were too.
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    Plane Touched Senji's Avatar
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    So whats 3?

    Another helping of rogues are bad? Double bad?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post
    Most Rogues I have no problem with and this is because they are 1) Undergeared or 2) Bad 3)

    However some Rogues in equal gear will give me the fight of my life, harder than rank 8 Warriors.

    I'm talking about Assassins and Marksmen here. Even running Chlorodom spec, and knowing every trick in the book as a rank 8 mage, I struggle against SKILLED assassins and marksmen. It can go either way. When either of us win, the other is usually extremely low on health.

    With the assassin buffs I feel that it will just be a landside loss due to imbalance rather than player skill... and as for Marksmen, I hear complaints of them being nerfed slightly? I don't know, but they were fine as they were too.
    The sins relys on opening from stealth wich is good at 1vs1, at big fights, after they open, their dps goes down the drain.
    MM were fine, but their dps rely on 1min and 30s cd's wich is good 1vs1, bad at long fights.
    And ur a mage, cry me a river
    I quited Rift, the lack of end game pvp+Gear based game+AoE zerg fest on many WF just kill the way i like pvp. (am p7,5)
    Small Skirmishes all over the place
    Currently am playing SC2 and Team Fotress 2, if you like skill based balanced games, try then out, btw Team Fotress 2 is now FREE!

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    I'm so sick of the argument that a "skilled" rogue can kill anyone. Its patently untrue, the class needs serious help, if you aren't playing one, you have no right to complain.

    If you are a chloromancer dying to an assassin or a marksman, you maybe just aren't noticing the 5 other guys that have you on blast while the mm spams eradicate (which does no damage), or the sin helplessly stacks his dots on you (which are easy outhealed by a single HoT) then vanishes before getting smushed.

    And are you telling me that every single Chloromancer or healing Cleric that cannot be killed by marks or sins are just amazing players? All of those annoying, hopping, instant cast spamming healers are just the most top notch gamers to ever pick up an MMO? Does it take some vast talent to play a healer that rogues are simply incapable of, and that is why Rift is drowning in rogue tears?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jianna View Post
    I'm so sick of the argument that a "skilled" rogue can kill anyone. Its patently untrue, the class needs serious help, if you aren't playing one, you have no right to complain.

    If you are a chloromancer dying to an assassin or a marksman, you maybe just aren't noticing the 5 other guys that have you on blast while the mm spams eradicate (which does no damage), or the sin helplessly stacks his dots on you (which are easy outhealed by a single HoT) then vanishes before getting smushed.

    And are you telling me that every single Chloromancer or healing Cleric that cannot be killed by marks or sins are just amazing players? All of those annoying, hopping, instant cast spamming healers are just the most top notch gamers to ever pick up an MMO? Does it take some vast talent to play a healer that rogues are simply incapable of, and that is why Rift is drowning in rogue tears?
    I think he said Chloro/Dom Another nice PVP class but IMO easier to kill than a Chloromancer

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    Quote Originally Posted by jianna View Post
    I'm so sick of the argument that a "skilled" rogue can kill anyone. Its patently untrue, the class needs serious help, if you aren't playing one, you have no right to complain.
    Rouges suck. I think they should buff the **** out of them so they can have fun for a few months till it gets nerfed.

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    Plane Touched Senji's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jianna View Post
    And are you telling me that every single Chloromancer or healing Cleric that cannot be killed by marks or sins are just amazing players? All of those annoying, hopping, instant cast spamming healers are just the most top notch gamers to ever pick up an MMO? Does it take some vast talent to play a healer that rogues are simply incapable of, and that is why Rift is drowning in rogue tears?
    Generally, yeah, in a way.

    Experienced mmo pvp veterans do not pick the stealth class. They don't bring enough to the table, and leave them for an open world, stun lock alt to toy with.
    Last edited by Senji; 09-21-2011 at 08:28 AM.
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    they're balanced compared to what? Each other? A wet noodle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Senji View Post
    Generally, yeah, in a way.

    Experienced mmo pvp veterans do not pick the stealth class. They don't bring enough to the table, and leave them for an open world, stun lock alt to toy with.
    lol generally...
    veterans pick stealth cuz what it brings to table is limited by creativity
    I quited Rift, the lack of end game pvp+Gear based game+AoE zerg fest on many WF just kill the way i like pvp. (am p7,5)
    Small Skirmishes all over the place
    Currently am playing SC2 and Team Fotress 2, if you like skill based balanced games, try then out, btw Team Fotress 2 is now FREE!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post
    Most Rogues I have no problem with and this is because they are 1) Undergeared or 2) Bad 3)

    However some Rogues in equal gear will give me the fight of my life, harder than rank 8 Warriors.

    I'm talking about Assassins and Marksmen here. Even running Chlorodom spec, and knowing every trick in the book as a rank 8 mage, I struggle against SKILLED assassins and marksmen. It can go either way. When either of us win, the other is usually extremely low on health.

    With the assassin buffs I feel that it will just be a landside loss due to imbalance rather than player skill... and as for Marksmen, I hear complaints of them being nerfed slightly? I don't know, but they were fine as they were too.
    Dude is scared Rogue's are finally getting love. Consider yourself lucky thogh, they already nerfed some of the buffs on PTS that would have made us LOL you instead of the other way around for once. Sorry I have no sympathy for your R8 ridiculous chloro high survivability spec.
    Last edited by kdps; 09-21-2011 at 08:44 AM.
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  11. #11
    Telaran
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    if your break free is on a cooldown then any rouge can kill you easy, at the same level as you.

    buffing them will make them gods anyone that has been shredded by one knows this.

    at p8 mage, with my break free on a cool down was stomped while still on the the rogue's first stun from stealth and that was with 1125 valor.

    mages have no armor to speak of and if there spells cant be used they dont have a chance against melee.

    im sick of listening to people say mages are op'd.

    things become level in group pvp but the clerics are making all the difference.

    when your spec'd to max dps and have a 30% healing debuff and can remove all buffs on a charcter then dump all your dps on them and they never drop 1/10th there health, that is making a difference.

    so the changes in 1.5 will probaly make rogue's gods and this is not needed.

    the clerics that can dps like a fully spec'd mage and also heal themselfs fully over and over are the class that needs to be nerf'd from god status.

    perhaps over time trion will get it right but its not there yet.
    Last edited by Krush; 09-21-2011 at 08:46 AM.

  12. #12
    Telaran Finis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senji View Post
    Generally, yeah, in a way.

    Experienced mmo pvp veterans do not pick the stealth class. They don't bring enough to the table, and leave them for an open world, stun lock alt to toy with.
    Wow, seriously, wow.

    Care to attach data to that? Because my anecdotal evidence says mmo veterans tend to stick with that they know, I've been playing rogues since EQ pvp (you though Rift pvp sucked, ha!) and I've had a rogue or rogue like character, with varying success, in every game I've played since.

    What I read into your statement is "I tried a rogue in WoW vanilla after watching World of Rogues, and had fun for a bit, but then I went back to my lawladin/shaman and owned faces. I was able to own rogues easily after spending 20 hours a day playing and gearing, so obviously rogues suck and are only played by new players"

    But anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, and just as useless as yours.
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  13. #13
    Ascendant Vyxagallanxchi's Avatar
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    For some reason... that being that I have a rank 6 rogue and a rank 5 mage... I just don't think rogues are as good as you think they are. I have a macro specifically to laugh at rogues that jump me from stealth. Their bleeds do nothing, their hits do nothing, they have no survivability, they can't do jack **** to a mage. Hell, my rank 2 cleric tanks rogues like they are nothing. MM can do something for 15 seconds once every 1.5 mins and really... a quick LoS on them and well, they just got screwed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    Think of a 30 meter circle around all ranged dps rogues and mages. Ranged dps can stand in the back line and focus fire targets without worrying about mobility and most forms of cc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    Sounds like an excellent plan for your healers to follow as well, as they have an even longer range on their heals.

  14. #14
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    Latest interview from the devs quotes Scott Hartsman as saying the bulk of the changes to rogues with 1.5 are to make more builds viable for PvE. Makes sense, considering most raiders will tell you we really only have one viable dps build in raids right now. If this translates to a case where rogues get bumped up for PvE and then get their damage output rescaled for the PvP side of things, so be it.

  15. #15
    Telaran Finis's Avatar
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    Seriously, every time I see one of these threads that say 'Rogues are fine, 1.5 will make them gods" what it really seems to be saying is "Rogues are fine, because I can safely ignore them on the battlefield, 1.5 will make them gods, because I'll have to pay attention to them."
    Someone feeling wronged is like someone feeling thirsty. Donít tell them they arenít. Sit with them and have a drink.

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