OP rogues worse than OP warriors, clerics, or mages because of...

[handerhank]

stealth and/or range.

The only thing more frustrating than getting blown up by some OP soul is when you cannot even see it coming. You can't avoid it, plan for it, or apply any other tactics to the situation because your enemy is invisible.

Only slightly less frustrating is an OP soul that, while visible, blows you up with nothing but instant attacks from outside your maximum range while running faster than you. You pretty much get to just sit there and die.

Assuming 1.5 balances rogues the same way Trion balances everything, I think we'll see more outrage and frustration in pvp than we've ever seen before. Yes, we balked at pyros and parachamps, but the base mechanics by which rogues apply their dps offer far greater potential for anger.

Hopefully the metagame evolves to include more anti-stealth abilities. I know I'll be heading that way on my mage.

[Vindicit]

Thats just funny.... sorry, Rogues will no longer be your punching bag so stop trying to discourage them from getting their much needed boost

[LordOberon]

Thats just funny.... sorry, Rogues will no longer be your punching bag so stop trying to discourage them from getting their much needed boost

Good rogues in 1.4 were already pretty deadly.. problem is 1.5 is going to make the bad rogues deadly & those good rogues from 1.4 will become insane rogues in 1.5 (and lead to the inevitable but justified nerf calls)

And slip away, cleanse soul, with hidden veil is very overpowered

People complain about 5 people beating on a cleric and them not dieing...

Ive seen 10 people attacking a rogue and have them live by using slip away.. (because they went immune during the travel time of the attacks that would have killed them and any dots on them etc were removed from cleanse soul)

[handerhank]

Thats just funny.... sorry, Rogues will no longer be your punching bag so stop trying to discourage them from getting their much needed boost

Rogues definitely need a boost. Trion also needs to implement a LOT more counters to stealth, and they need to make sure that MM isn't going to just blow people up from the total safety of 36 yards away.

I don't know why everyone just ignores the immense tactical implications of stealth. It's not just another throwaway feature of a class like a specific type of armor or a unique resource for combat. Stealth provides a ton of control and survivability. Rogues shouldn't pretend like it's worthless because it certainly doesn't seem that way to people on the receiving end.

I think the rogue class has been hamstrung in terms of raw performance because of the advantages of stealth. Trion basically said as much. Now they're buffing that raw performance, which is great. I just hope they make the necessary changes to stealth (and MM range/mobility) so as not to create the MMO equivalent of The Predator.

[Jorath]

stealth and/or range.

The only thing more frustrating than getting blown up by some OP soul is when you cannot even see it coming. You can't avoid it, plan for it, or apply any other tactics to the situation because your enemy is invisible.

Only slightly less frustrating is an OP soul that, while visible, blows you up with nothing but instant attacks from outside your maximum range while running faster than you. You pretty much get to just sit there and die.

Assuming 1.5 balances rogues the same way Trion balances everything, I think we'll see more outrage and frustration in pvp than we've ever seen before. Yes, we balked at pyros and parachamps, but the base mechanics by which rogues apply their dps offer far greater potential for anger.

Hopefully the metagame evolves to include more anti-stealth abilities. I know I'll be heading that way on my mage.

I play mage and I honestly don't mind if Rogues totally melt everyone's face for a month. Non MMs I mean. I hope Assassins pop out and 1 GCD people and that Nightblades rain fiery death on everyone for a month. They deserve a little face time to appease them for being the "stone running" "purging" "Aoe healing" class that they have been.

[Laban of C O]

At first when I saw "blows you up from range" I thought you were mentioning Sabotour, and I was going to be highly disapointed in you. Since... sabo is worthless against targets above rank 5 or so, since they mitigate the damage so much it's piontless. I do love blowing up low rankers with my sabo though.

The main arguement against the rogue buffs seems to be with the ability of 1 of the souls. Slip-away from the assassin soul. Said ability will be getting some tweaks in the update as well, which a number of rogues have whined about. Honestly, I have no opinion on said ability, since I don't play an Assassin. I am more a NB type of fellow.

Long story short? Why don't we all just stop whining and b!tching about what may or may not come about, and wait and see. If things are OP, (or even if they arn't, with the number of whiners already gearing up) I'm sure they'll tweak it down. Regardless, being able to have a DPS option other straight NB or assassin, and more pve than sabodancer will be rather pleasant.

I have a personal rule I like to use. I don't whine about any class I have not played myself. You won't find any threads of me whining about warriors, mages, or clerics. I have not played one yet. I have played a rogue almost to Rank 7 now though, and I've been rolled enough times by competant players... that I'm rather excited by the prospect of some class balancing. Before you begrudge someone their new shoes, take a walk in their old ones first. Thanks.

- Laban

[Topdecker]

And slip away, cleanse soul, with hidden veil is very overpowered

Are you really complaining about a top tier defensive talent that can only be used every 2 minutes and is only super good when you burn 10 points in another tree? A rogue gets to live every 120 seconds... big whoop.


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[Finis]

Are you really complaining about a top tier defensive talent that can only be used every 2 minutes and is only super good when you burn 10 points in another tree? A rogue gets to live every 120 seconds... big whoop.


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Don't you know? Every Rogue gets 31 points in Assassin and 10 points in Infiltrator for free.

I wonder how many people out there realize that Slip Away is the 31 point Assassin Talent? it's not like -every rogue build- has it, or even most rogue builds.

That's like saying Every Cleric has Rage of the North, or Every Mage has Neddra's Essence. It's silly.

You know what the first 30 points in assassin gets you right now? A bunch of bleeds anyone near someone who can cast HoTs can ignore.

[Frizzlebot]

I agree rogues needed a buff. I guess Trion wanted to make glass canons with rogues. Well, I have a R5 Rogue and I can tell you they got the first part down, now their fixing the second part.

I also have a R8 mage. On that level I am personally terrified at the possibility of this new super melee class. Rogues have so many abillities to escape, and CC, when you add to that increased dmg and survivability you have a problem. Why couldn't they have increased the dmg and left it at that!

[garethh]

Good rogues in 1.4 were already pretty deadly.. problem is 1.5 is going to make the bad rogues deadly & those good rogues from 1.4 will become insane rogues in 1.5 (and lead to the inevitable but justified nerf calls)

OMG that means insane pro rogues might be about as effective as a mediocere warrior.

woot...

[LordOberon]

Are you really complaining about a top tier defensive talent that can only be used every 2 minutes and is only super good when you burn 10 points in another tree? A rogue gets to live every 120 seconds... big whoop.


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Well the cabalilst 51 point ability got nerfed into the ground in a week (even though it was pretty easy to heal through by using aoe heals).. Slip away is a 31 point ability not a 51 point ability.. So I'm not sure why you consider it a huge point investment.. (and EVERY rogue i know has slip away, cleanse soul and hidden veil on a macro)

And you act as if 2 minutes is a long time..

and don't forget about the magic immunity ability the rogues can use when a magic using calling/class attempts to defend themselves

[BloodWidow]

HAHAHAHAHA, you my friend have obviously never played a max lvl rogue in pvp. We kinda suck.

Our damage is underpowered, we have the second lowest physical def in the game and the ONLY way were are even annoying is when we blow every fracking cooldown we have to even put a dent in our target. Oh, and those cooldowns have GCDs so we have to wait to do something else.

Sins have stealth with Slip Away, yes. But, understand that if I went that far into Sin I have almost NO survivability. I have to hope that my wet noodle I am hitting you with kills you or I AM DEAD without slip away.

Also, Sins are kinda useless in most all WFs. When there are huge battles taking place with 16+ people pounding each other all over, what are you going to do? Slowly walk around stealthed while your teammates die, waiting to hopefully get behind a moving target and get off your one opener. Sure you can hide somewhere and attack from the darkness. But once you pop out, if something doesn't already pop you out of stealth, you die. Dead rogues don't do much damage.

I think the only WF Sins have any worth in is Codex, guarding the vault. I tried playing Sin, but got tired of damaging ONE target and dieing almost instantly afterwards. I'll take NB, Bard, MM or Runner spec anyday. So, if Sins have their Slip Away Stealth, let them. I'll be killing their friends while they slowly walk around trying to attack their one target.

[Socka]

Good rogues in 1.4 were already pretty deadly.. problem is 1.5 is going to make the bad rogues deadly & those good rogues from 1.4 will become insane rogues in 1.5 (and lead to the inevitable but justified nerf calls)

And slip away, cleanse soul, with hidden veil is very overpowered

People complain about 5 people beating on a cleric and them not dieing...

Ive seen 10 people attacking a rogue and have them live by using slip away.. (because they went immune during the travel time of the attacks that would have killed them and any dots on them etc were removed from cleanse soul)

First of all: stop talking about rogues beeing "deadly".. The only time they are "deadly" are in one vs one IF the rogue actualy get the opener from stealth... RIFT Pvp is GROUP PVP where 1v1 SUCKS!..

Second: Slip away is the ONLY Defensive cooldown wich is actualy good for such WEAK class as rogue are in 1.4.

Third: Were those 10 people lvl 1 or just auto attacking that rogue? Seriously.. If 10 people attack a rogue, If ALL 10 get a chance to use a spell on that rogue, he will die pretty instant...

[LordMord]

Good rogues in 1.4 were already pretty deadly.. problem is 1.5 is going to make the bad rogues deadly & those good rogues from 1.4 will become insane rogues in 1.5 (and lead to the inevitable but justified nerf calls)

this.

Our Guildrogue R8 always tells me Rogues are fine, they just need to have some more possibilities to skill various things.

But jeah...he might be just a disguised Warri


Hope all 1337rogues are happy if they can finally twohit opponents like in wow some day...certainly without r8...

[Socka]

Hope all 1337rogues are happy if they can finally twohit opponents like in wow some day...certainly without r8...

Doubt we will twohit people with 1h daggers. And the damage isnt boosted that much to "twohit" anything.
Will get more survival and better synergy between the souls, better survial.
This doesnt mean we will become OP. It means rogues actualy will have a chanse to shine abit... Finaly...