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Thread: Dear Trion - please Fix Warfront PvP - it is really stupid.

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Exclamation Dear Trion - please Fix Warfront PvP - it is really stupid.

    I get it that Rift is a gear hunt. I get it that gear makes ALL the difference (and imo way too much of a difference) but please balance the pvP warfronts - they are a joke right now 95% of the time.
    95% of the time it is one side utterly dominating another (usually defiants dominating guards) because they simply have WAY better PvP gear. It makes the match totally pointless and most people just quit and wait out the inevitable when it gets like that.
    A very simple way to handle this is to give some weight to the PvP ranking when queuing the match. In other words and for example: a PvP R8 = 10pts, PvP R6=8, PvP Rank 1 or 0 = 1pt. then just even out the sides so that side = 50 or whatever or are within 5 pts of each other. Then the fights will be fun and competitive and based more on how you play your character and unit coordination rather than chancing if you happen to have joined a side that has more gear than the other side. Will you bother playing out the match or just wait for it to end to get your scrap of prestige/favor.
    Oh, and to the trolls who will post that they go in with their un-geared toons and have no problem in PvP - save it, because it is a total load of crap. You might get lucky and get on a team where you have a lot of higher ranks supporting you, but trust me, you are nothing and useless without gear in this game.

  2. #2
    Plane Walker Radamanthys's Avatar
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    Paragraphs and spaces PLEASE!!!
    I cant go check my eyes every time a n00b writes a wall of text like this!

  3. #3
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    In a perfect world, there would be an unlimited number of players with all different ranks, gear, and builds that the queuing system could choose from to assemble perfectly "balanced" teams. And this would be done with no queue times at all. Every time you enter the queue you'd receive an instant invite and life would be grand.

    Unfortunately, it's not a perfect world and there's only so much a developer can do to try and make it so. If you've got faction imbalances (which all wargroups have) and you've got hours of the day where there aren't a lot of people on line (which all wargroups have), the system can't afford to be too picky or else queue times tend to increase and you end up having to decide whether you want to go in and do your best or not do any warfronts at all. And if you know that the queuing system is largely first in, first out and you feel that you're constantly at a disadvantage in your wargroup for whatever reason, you don't need jacked up queue times to keep you out of warfronts. You can make the decision to not queue on your own.

    You always have the option to poke around on the forums and find a wargroup that has a more favorable environment for your faction and transfer to a server in that wargroup. If that's not an acceptable option to you, you need to either buck up and stop using your gear status as an excuse or find something else in the game that interests you.

    The game launched six months ago with a level playing field for all. There were no gear disadvantages but there was still faction dominance. I can remember hitting 50 on my warrior at a time when any level 50 warfront often had queues > 30m even during peak hours because there simply weren't enough level 50 players to keep matches running on a regular basis. And as more players starting hitting 50 and warfronts became more accessible, the Guardian side of my wargroup quickly established a position of dominance. I can remember many times that I had a dialy quest in my log for three or more days because Defiants just couldn't seem to pull out a win. This was long before rank 6 players were even remotely common. Guardians didn't need top gear to steamroll us because they just played a smarter game. It was still common to get blown up in the span of a second or two because the Guardians tended to focus fire and pick the right targets.

    Gear represents an advantage in Rift PvP and it is a significant one, but a coordinated team of low rank players has a pretty good chance of trouncing a disorganized PUG of high rank players.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Vaine's Avatar
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    Dear Trion

    Please implement an auto-space and auto-pararagraph system for you forums.

    Jav
    <The Unnamed> GSB 5/5 ROS 4/4 GP 4/4 DH 4/4 HK 10/11
    Lace - Whitefall- R8 Warrior
    Mythril - Whitefall- R8 Cleric

  5. #5
    Shield of Telara baph's Avatar
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    Dear Trion,

    Please auto delete threads with titles containing "really stupid."

    Thanks,
    baph

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    Quote Originally Posted by baph View Post
    Dear Trion,

    Please auto delete threads with titles containing "really stupid."

    Thanks,
    baph
    ^^

    Trion has already given low tier PVPer's a massive amount of valor that took higher ranks a long time to acquire. Perhaps if half the players that post these threads about how unbalanced WF's are, actually paid attention and played it smart, then they would understand its more about how you strategise rather than plain gear check.

    (I'm not saying if you go with a group of allies, that you won't be destroyed by enemies, but it sure does boost your survivablility, just my opinion as I've already this much time making my way upto r7)

    Play it smart, survive longer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snivonim View Post
    I get it that Rift is a gear hunt. I get it that gear makes ALL the difference (and imo way too much of a difference) but please balance the pvP warfronts - they are a joke right now 95% of the time.
    95% of the time it is one side utterly dominating another (usually defiants dominating guards) because they simply have WAY better PvP gear. It makes the match totally pointless and most people just quit and wait out the inevitable when it gets like that.
    A very simple way to handle this is to give some weight to the PvP ranking when queuing the match. In other words and for example: a PvP R8 = 10pts, PvP R6=8, PvP Rank 1 or 0 = 1pt. then just even out the sides so that side = 50 or whatever or are within 5 pts of each other. Then the fights will be fun and competitive and based more on how you play your character and unit coordination rather than chancing if you happen to have joined a side that has more gear than the other side. Will you bother playing out the match or just wait for it to end to get your scrap of prestige/favor.
    Oh, and to the trolls who will post that they go in with their un-geared toons and have no problem in PvP - save it, because it is a total load of crap. You might get lucky and get on a team where you have a lot of higher ranks supporting you, but trust me, you are nothing and useless without gear in this game.
    I agree gear is god. Thats the problem. A new Q system unless its global is going ot fubar the times. The real problem is why the gap from level 50 rank 1 to rank 8 means over 5x char performance. Its simple math. Of course its way screwed because anyone 2/3 the way up the ranks is going to literaly destroy almost instantly everyone under rank 6. They realy need to fire this guy who runs this end of the team. He has obviously no verfiable results and keeps making the same mistakes. I ROFL on my rank 8 cleric as I VERY often one shot people. Its sad and its defonetly no fun because PVP is about players competing against eachother. If I want things to explode without any risk or challenge I will go pve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snivonim View Post
    I get it that Rift is a gear hunt. I get it that gear makes ALL the difference (and imo way too much of a difference) but please balance the pvP warfronts - they are a joke right now 95% of the time.
    95% of the time it is one side utterly dominating another (usually defiants dominating guards) because they simply have WAY better PvP gear. It makes the match totally pointless and most people just quit and wait out the inevitable when it gets like that.
    A very simple way to handle this is to give some weight to the PvP ranking when queuing the match. In other words and for example: a PvP R8 = 10pts, PvP R6=8, PvP Rank 1 or 0 = 1pt. then just even out the sides so that side = 50 or whatever or are within 5 pts of each other. Then the fights will be fun and competitive and based more on how you play your character and unit coordination rather than chancing if you happen to have joined a side that has more gear than the other side. Will you bother playing out the match or just wait for it to end to get your scrap of prestige/favor.
    Oh, and to the trolls who will post that they go in with their un-geared toons and have no problem in PvP - save it, because it is a total load of crap. You might get lucky and get on a team where you have a lot of higher ranks supporting you, but trust me, you are nothing and useless without gear in this game.
    Agreed as whole. Just out of my expirience - guardians win way more frequntly because they posses better groups ( like psycho: good ones - are grouped and socialized). Bad is you cant maintain awarding for efforts and even field at the same time. What you can make is increase favor/honor gains for lowbeis fighting hight people. So they can quicker catch up. And you can make bonuses for permanent loosing side - so they can catch breathe and slowly start to be competative.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Pesmergia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okooko View Post
    ^^

    Trion has already given low tier PVPer's a massive amount of valor that took higher ranks a long time to acquire. Perhaps if half the players that post these threads about how unbalanced WF's are, actually paid attention and played it smart, then they would understand its more about how you strategise rather than plain gear check.

    (I'm not saying if you go with a group of allies, that you won't be destroyed by enemies, but it sure does boost your survivablility, just my opinion as I've already this much time making my way upto r7)

    Play it smart, survive longer.
    Lol, no one has a right to complain about it honestly.

    Even if you play 5 hours a week, play those 5 hours during an escalation weekend and enjoy hitting r6 in no time.

    Seriously, trion has caved in enough to casuals, to make it easy for casuals.

    For hardcore gamers it's a joke now.

    I didn't have to work this weekend (yay), so Friday I put in a good 16 hours into my character and ended the day, on escalation scion, with about 130k prestige.

    Seriously quit crying.

    If I was hardcore, and did that all weekend, I could have went r5-r6 in 3 days, then the next weekend do r6-r7 in 3 days.

    I understand not everyone has that time to devote, but give me a break.

    Also @ the guardian vs defiant argument, it will not ever be balanced, it's a continuous cycle, heck, on my server guardians used to outnumber us 3 to 1, now we outnumber them 2 to 1, all this happened in a matter of 2 months of guardian xfers off, and defiant xfers on.

    Our queue times suffered though, used to always be instant during the week, now I have to wait 5-10 minutes often.
    Last edited by Pesmergia; 09-20-2011 at 03:43 AM.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple Jorath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snivonim View Post
    A very simple way to handle this is to give some weight to the PvP ranking when queuing the match. In other words and for example: a PvP R8 = 10pts, PvP R6=8, PvP Rank 1 or 0 = 1pt. then just even out the sides so that side = 50 or whatever or are within 5 pts of each other.
    I actually really like this idea, reminds me of like hero clicks or Warhammer minis. Each team has a running point total which should be like 20 points within each other. I also would like that the teams can be uneven # wise instead of point wise, if the game lets in a R8 then it can let in like 2R4s. With the nerf to bloodthirsty coming this could be a really cool idea and allow the undergeared defiants to zerg into warfronts while higher geared lower numbered guardians can hold them off.

    Because honestly from what I hear its like 2 v 1 Defiants over Guardian population on every server. I know on Sunrest as a Guardian when I hit the Warfront button it goes bing and gives me a warfront while all of you Defiants are QQing in Meridian for a half hour going, "where is my warfront?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pesmergia View Post
    Lol, no one has a right to complain about it honestly.

    If I was hardcore, and did that all weekend, I could have went r5-r6 in 3 days, then the next weekend do r6-r7 in 3 days.
    ^^ If you spend time actually playing you go up ranks pretty quickly tbh.

    No +prestige/valor complaining on threads last time i checked?

  12. #12
    Ascendant Pesmergia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpinelessKC View Post
    I agree gear is god. Thats the problem. A new Q system unless its global is going ot fubar the times. The real problem is why the gap from level 50 rank 1 to rank 8 means over 5x char performance. Its simple math. Of course its way screwed because anyone 2/3 the way up the ranks is going to literaly destroy almost instantly everyone under rank 6. They realy need to fire this guy who runs this end of the team. He has obviously no verfiable results and keeps making the same mistakes. I ROFL on my rank 8 cleric as I VERY often one shot people. Its sad and its defonetly no fun because PVP is about players competing against eachother. If I want things to explode without any risk or challenge I will go pve.
    I wouldn't say destroy, I've seen good r5s do amazing things.

    The key is to do what I did, before I hit 50 on my mage, I had all R1-R2 gear purchased in my bags waiting, and I also had about 100k favor in the bank, which has so far up through r5, I've had every piece of gears cost in marks completely covered plus a nice chunk left over for the next rank, before I even hit the rank to use the gear.

    Also I spent a whole weekend running pvp rift groups 15 hours one day, and 12 another, to max my unseen reputation, so I could buy all the best pvp essences, and have my synergy crystals on stand-by, as well as the hourglass, this done in 2 days.

    99% of people who hit 50 do NOT come prepared, they half @$$ it, come in WFs with greens, don't PvP to 50 at all and expect to be competitive the very second they ding 50.... not gonna happen.

    Seriously, if you're leveling a character you are serious about PvPing with at 50 hardcore with, do some research and come in prepared, and you will probably be QQing alot less.

    Heck, I know a lot of lazy bums who are rank 7 and are still decorated LAWL unseen, I got max revered before I was r4, and this is my 2nd toon to r6, probably all the way to r8, and god, leveling unseen rep has made a HUGE difference. I also know a lot of R7s missing scion head enchant, mathos belt enchant, leg enchant, all these little things add up to serious performance increase.

    Get your belt mathos enchant, I see a lot of R7 without it, GET IT at R1.

    Get your leg enchant.

    Grind scion until your eyes bleed as soon as you hit 50, get glorified ASAP, +10 to your primary stat + 25 valor head enchant is amazing and helpful, do not skip out and half @$$ it, if you half @$$ it, you will get half @$$ed results on damage or healing.

    If you're a dps or heals, farm money so you have a nice bank, and use consumables, like the +200 spellpower weapon consumable, or the dps whetstone.. with all this stuff combined into one, as a low rank, you will be out-performing someone 2-3 ranks higher who is half @$$ing it, take my word on it, I have done it, and I have seen it done by many others.
    Last edited by Pesmergia; 09-20-2011 at 03:57 AM.

  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snivonim View Post
    Dear Trion - please Fix Warfront PvP - it is really stupid.
    Another day, another thread moaning about WFs .. how refreshingly original.
    Last edited by Kragorn; 09-20-2011 at 03:54 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pesmergia View Post
    I wouldn't say destroy, I've seen good r5s do amazing things.

    The key is to do what I did, before I hit 50 on my mage, I had all R1-R2 gear purchased in my bags waiting, and I also had about 100k favor in the bank, which has so far up through r5, I've had every piece of gears cost in marks completely covered plus a nice chunk left over for the next rank, before I even hit the rank to use the gear.

    Also I spent a whole weekend running pvp rift groups 15 hours one day, and 12 another, to max my unseen reputation, so I could buy all the best pvp essences, and have my synergy crystals on stand-by, as well as the hourglass, this done in 2 days.

    99% of people who hit 50 do NOT come prepared, they half @$$ it, come in WFs with greens, don't PvP to 50 at all and expect to be competitive the very second they ding 50.... not gonna happen.

    Seriously, if you're leveling a character you are serious about PvPing with at 50 hardcore with, do some research and come in prepared, and you will probably be QQing alot less.

    Heck, I know a lot of lazy bums who are rank 7 and are still decorated LAWL unseen, I got max revered before I was r4, and this is my 2nd toon to r6, probably all the way to r8, and god, leveling unseen rep has made a HUGE difference.

    Get your belt mathos enchant, I see a lot of R7 without it, GET IT at R1.

    Get your leg enchant.

    Grind scion until your eyes bleed as soon as you hit 50, get glorified ASAP, +10 to your primary stat + 25 valor head enchant is amazing and helpful, do not skip out and half @$$ it, if you half @$$ it, you will get half @$$ed results on damage or healing.

    If you're a dps, farm money so you have a nice bank, and use consumables, with all this stuff combined into one, as a low rank, you will be out-performing someone 2-3 ranks higher who is half @$$ing it, take my word on it, I have done it, and I have seen it done by many others.
    Min and max all you like. You are still going to be a free frag. You are taling about a 10% at max perfromance factor. Rank 4+ are going to destroy you. Rank 6 is going to melt you. Rank 7-8 its pretty much going to one to 3 shot you. I dont care if you are the best min/maxer in mmo history you cant fight hard code and bad math. It doesnt matter. Thousands of vet pvp clans left the game when they figured out there is no skill involved and gear is a game breaker in pvp along with the musical chairs we play with fotm specs.
    Last edited by SpinelessKC; 09-20-2011 at 04:02 AM.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Pesmergia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpinelessKC View Post
    Min and max all you like. You are still going to be a free frag. You are taling about a 10% at max perfromance factor. Rank 4+ are going to destroy you. Rank 6 is going to melt you. Rank 7-8 its pretty much going to one to 3 shot you. I dont care if you are the best min/maxer in mmo history you cant fight hard code and bad math. It doesnt matter. Thousands of vet pvp clans left the game when they figured out there is no skill involved and gear is a game breaker in pvp along with the musical chairs we play with fotm specs.
    That post was not meant at out-performing R6 as R1, it was at coming in more prepared, and feeling you are contributing way more than you can being not prepared.

    Face it, min/maxing helps, a LOT, and will make the grind much much less painful.

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