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Thread: 2 Seperate Games?

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser Kyridus's Avatar
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    Default 2 Seperate Games?

    (Re-post, posted in PTS forum accidentally)

    It's quite clear Trion is attempting to do all it can to keep PvP & PvE seperate games within a game. Many steps have been taken to ensure this is the case. While I would personally enjoy one game, I can see now that you have a different goal in mind.

    With that said, why not just do it? Lose the pretense that PvP & PvE can go hand in hand and revamp your PvP in a way that doesn't effect PvE? Why not just cut all remaining ties that you're so carefully trying to keep tethered yet distanced?

    Make PvP it's own game already if you want there to be no cross-over instead of mangling every remaining portion of that tether. Alter the ways abilities function in PvP alone of that's required to bring balance. Scrap some PvE rules and have fun with your PvP 'game'. You're currently following a path where changes intended to correct a situation in one 'game' effect the other in negative ways. Why have you not jumped on this?

    Sure, I would love to hear of a new zone opening which would bring us keep seiges (possibly guild keeps, built and maintained by resources?), serious PvP objectives that would have an actual impact on the world, and a variety of other objectives which when completed would provide benefits to your realm. Something along the lines of early DAoC frontiers perhaps. However, you seem to be wringing your hands desperate to tie PvE & PvP together, yet do all you can to keep them seperate. Why?

    Either cut the cord and let one have no effect on the other, or don't, but making up your mind would better serve all of us than the half assed gimmicky and contrived restrictions thrown around currently.

    Seriously? Wardrobes no longer visable to enemies in warfronts? Do you play your game? If so, here's a hint. Target the people with giant red glowing names you can see from halfway across the map.

    If you're taking a fun and harmless aspect away to serve the 1% brain damaged populace that actually chooses targets based on what they're wearing rather than what role they're playing, what color their name is or whether or not they're attacking you, you're wasting resources and taking fun away in favor of - (good god what IS this decision even called?) this ...rubbish, someone's made a bad decision. What brain trust decided THIS needed to be implemented? It's sick. There is sickness involved - my advice, investigate your team Trion. Remind them 'Hey, we're here to make a GAME, dammit! This is ALL supposed to be FUN!'. Then, if the responsible party happens to be in a wheeled office chair, spin them once or twice before giving him or her a primal shove towards the nearest wall or longest hall as you cackle maniacally. If no chair is present, then just fire them.

    Someone's clearly lost the plot.

    I'm not amazed that a game originally touting it's flexability and the viability of creative use of game mechanics is suddenly finding hand binding everywhere you look, I'm more disappointed as I actually believed the crap Russ and Scott said prior to release. They came across as likeable, believable and seemed to understand the benefits of certain restrictions being lifted, and as if they understood fun.

    To summarize for those not interested in reading:

    Decide whether you're (Trion) going to seperate PvP & PvE or take a chance on some overlap. But stop wasting time on pathetic attempts to tether the two while keeping them as distanced as possible.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Default

    I do see where you are coming from but

    1. Resources. It's a grand idea but in reality the resources it would take to literally create this would be like making a new game within the game. They probably work quite a lot on just what there is now.

    2. To 'cut the cord' as you say and really make no parallels between PvP and PvE you would have to remove stuff like Rifts (well, I guess PvP rifts could be elaborated on such a server), raid zones, overland NPC's from the game. The world is what it is, it has PvE content, but you can do PvP and ignore PvE content if you want. But the fact that it is there, would make it hard to separate them because theres plenty of guilds on PvP servers that raid and PvP. To really make a pure PvP game you would basically take out all PvE type things, make the zones nothing but 'maps' in essence and could create objectives in different areas. By this time though they have nearly made a server that is a FPS game in a MMO costume imo. In concept and thought the idea is good and sounds enjoyable, but the reality of it I think is a pipe dream, Rift wouldn't be Rift if ya ask me.

    Just my take on it though, take it with a grain of salt. only an opinion.
    Last edited by Violacea; 09-19-2011 at 03:21 AM.

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser Kyridus's Avatar
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    Default

    See, I would prefer it was ONE game, where elements from both sides might potentially be beneficial in the other area (PvP & PvE). I would also prefer doing away with PvP gear entirely and instead see a PvP alternate advancement tool that's specifically designed to increase your characters strength vs other players only.

    However it's apparent Trion is doing everything it can to keep the sides from over lapping, and it seems they're taking a contortionists approach to 'fixing it' (making PvP gear not very viable in PvE, and totally unviable for some roles (tanks)). This is evident in recent PvP gear changes. It's evident in the fact that PvP is segregated via War Fronts taking place out side of, and having 0 impact on the PvE world.

    However as altering skills to combat a preceived problem in one area tends to cause trouble in the other, it seems the easiest approach would be the EQ2 approach, we already know many devs worked on EQ2, in which abilities have altered effects vs players compard to the effect they'd have on NPC's.

    They seem to want to encourage PvE'rs to dip their toes into PvP to allow them to obtain pvp rewards safely, without PvPing (daily pvp quests), which really just seems to be a lengthy work around, to me.

    So my hard earned raid gear is useless in PvP, fine, that's a decision they made. PvP gear was too useful in PvE so they altered that, fair enough...I guess. To me it just seems silly to go to such lengths when the end result is what appears to be a game within a game.

    My point is, this whole sad attempt to balance things out will be a never ending cycle of alterations to ensure that 1 side can not have an effect on the other: which seems to be what they want.

    So why not 1.) Make it ONE game by simply allowing overlap or 2.) Cut the cord and have fun with your pvp mechanics unhindered by what the PvE repercussions might be.

    It just seems more logical to me than this endless scampering about, stamping out any overlap with extreme, frustrating and often convoluted solutions.

    Thanks

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple Jorath's Avatar
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    I didn't like GW, PvP only games get kinda boring, might as well play counterstrike. I did like Shadowbane which had very little PvE and almost all PvP, but the mix was nice.

    Honestly they already have the best system for PvP/PvE, which is basically PvP souls. The PvP souls can actually be loaded with some good stuff which will make the system work better. Also, you notice how they make patches that people in PvP get healed for less. Well if it can detect if your in PvP then honestly they can just implement dual skills. Skills that do 1 thing in PvE combat and another in PvP combat.

    Example - Ability (Smack a Punk)
    PvE - Does 8,000,000 damage to mob
    PvP - Does 800 damage to player

    Example - Ability (Scaring YOU)
    PvE - Fear 8 seconds
    PvP -30% attack speed and movement for 4 seconds.

    Squirrel already works this way, its already only like 8 seconds instead of like 36 seconds. Because that would be seriously lame to be a Squirrel for 36 seconds in PvP.
    Last edited by Jorath; 09-19-2011 at 06:20 AM.

  5. #5
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorath View Post
    I didn't like GW, PvP only games get kinda boring, might as well play counterstrike. I did like Shadowbane which had very little PvE and almost all PvP, but the mix was nice.

    Honestly they already have the best system for PvP/PvE, which is basically PvP souls. The PvP souls can actually be loaded with some good stuff which will make the system work better. Also, you notice how they make patches that people in PvP get healed for less. Well if it can detect if your in PvP then honestly they can just implement dual skills. Skills that do 1 thing in PvE combat and another in PvP combat.

    Example - Ability (Smack a Punk)
    PvE - Does 8,000,000 damage to mob
    PvP - Does 800 damage to player

    Example - Ability (Scaring YOU)
    PvE - Fear 8 seconds
    PvP -30% attack speed and movement for 4 seconds.

    Squirrel already works this way, its already only like 8 seconds instead of like 36 seconds. Because that would be seriously lame to be a Squirrel for 36 seconds in PvP.
    30 second plus cc works in mmos. Put down the adderall for a bit a take a breath. Long time CCs that break on combat are good for mass combat in mmos. They allow smaller groups of well coordinated people to have a fighting chance against large disorganized zergs.

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