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Thread: rez spot in warfronts

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    Soulwalker
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    Default rez spot in warfronts

    Can we please make this area 0 prestige 0 favor, I'm sick of players coming into a wf and say they are not doing anything and said players is getting full pers/favor at the end of the wf. Or just some other idea so these types of players stop.

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    Ascendant Ajax1114's Avatar
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    Many people who stay at spawn are doing so because the other team is dominating anyone who steps down. Thus, your team is getting close to 0 favor anyway.

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    Ascendant VirusDancer's Avatar
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    All in all, I think it is a complicated issue. Well, at least while I was out smoking and thinking about it - what I was thinking about is a rather complicated issue.

    First of all, well - that is part of the problem...where to start, eh? So then, rather, in no particular order:

    Remove credit for kills that take place on the other side of the map. You should only receive credit for kills that you participated in some way - damage/healing/buffing/debuffing/something to do with any of the objectives. Credit for participation...not spectating.

    DR distances. If you're off fighting nowhere near an objective, it should be worth less than if you are fighting near an objective.

    If somebody comes in during the last 10s of a match, they should get a miniscule amount of the win/loss amount compared to somebody that has been there 15m.

    The rez spot can be difficult, because you do not want to force players to be farmed.

    Yep, one can go on and on about the various aspects of how F/P could, should be earned in WFs - the ups/downs of various thoughts...

    ...so yep, I think it is pretty complicated.
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    Ascendant Ajax1114's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirusDancer View Post
    All in all, I think it is a complicated issue. Well, at least while I was out smoking and thinking about it - what I was thinking about is a rather complicated issue.
    I agree that the issue is complicated. And I think that's why Trion has chosen an almost laughably simple, "everyone gets the same" system. It's the same reason that they gave PvPers uber R8 stuff to match uber Hammerknell stuff: Because players will inevitably ask, "Why can't I have what he has?!?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax1114 View Post
    I agree that the issue is complicated. And I think that's why Trion has chosen an almost laughably simple, "everyone gets the same" system. It's the same reason that they gave PvPers uber R8 stuff to match uber Hammerknell stuff: Because players will inevitably ask, "Why can't I have what he has?!?"
    To an extent though, I can see the PvP side in regard to the arms race with the PvE side...as far as the gear existing. Would say that it needs to be more difficult to earn - that a person actually have to do something to earn it. Not to take away from those that fight every moment of each WF they're in, but we all know there are folks that do nothing - so everybody but those that want to leech their way to gear should be on the same side....
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    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xavrak View Post
    Can we please make this area 0 prestige 0 favor, I'm sick of players coming into a wf and say they are not doing anything and said players is getting full pers/favor at the end of the wf. Or just some other idea so these types of players stop.
    What about situations when someone waits in queue and then this happens? They should get nothing? I mean, the warfront screen didn't even load for me!
    rez spot in warfronts-ps_instant_lose_queue.jpg
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    Ascendant VirusDancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taptap View Post
    What about situations when someone waits in queue and then this happens? They should get nothing? I mean, the warfront screen didn't even load for me!
    Attachment 6242
    Goes with what Ajax said... Trion went with the simplest solution. Rather than having any coding in place so that people do not join WFs that are about to end, leaving them in the queue instead... yep, they drop folks in.

    They still end up getting less than they would have even if they joined halfway...meh.
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    Shield of Telara baph's Avatar
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    The system has been almost unchanged for 6 months. Actually there used to be a proximity requirement for kills but it was removed very early on. You can't expect people to hang back and protect flags or guard the base if they are out of range for any favor. That's why they made the change, and that's why everyone gets credit for all kills in the zone.

    It's fair, it works. Contrary to belief, it actually promotes winning and completing objectives because players know it's safe to play defensively, or play a support role where they don't have to worry about how many kills they get or how much damage they do.

    Still waiting for the day I see a decent suggestion that makes sense and is fair for all types of players and roles. Until then, Trion is sticking with this system because it makes sense. Yeah it has flaws, but it has less flaws than any other system people have come up with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by baph View Post
    The system has been almost unchanged for 6 months. Actually there used to be a proximity requirement for kills but it was removed very early on. You can't expect people to hang back and protect flags or guard the base if they are out of range for any favor. That's why they made the change, and that's why everyone gets credit for all kills in the zone.
    No, they went the lazy way.

    They did not have to throw a blanket over the zone. They could have had areas around objectives. You're defending - you're in a zone...

    ...you're off fighting in the middle of nowhere - you're not.
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    Shield of Telara baph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirusDancer View Post
    No, they went the lazy way.

    They did not have to throw a blanket over the zone. They could have had areas around objectives. You're defending - you're in a zone...

    ...you're off fighting in the middle of nowhere - you're not.
    So when I'm on my way to the objective in whitefall riding along, or to another node at codex and someone jumps me I should get less reward for killing him because I'm currently not near an objective? When I see a rogue riding way off to the side to get around the zerg and sneak into our base to steal a shard during escalation, I should not kill him off to the side in the middle of nowhere because that would not contribute?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirusDancer View Post
    All in all, I think it is a complicated issue. Well, at least while I was out smoking and thinking about it - what I was thinking about is a rather complicated issue.

    First of all, well - that is part of the problem...where to start, eh? So then, rather, in no particular order:

    Remove credit for kills that take place on the other side of the map. You should only receive credit for kills that you participated in some way - damage/healing/buffing/debuffing/something to do with any of the objectives. Credit for participation...not spectating.

    DR distances. If you're off fighting nowhere near an objective, it should be worth less than if you are fighting near an objective.

    If somebody comes in during the last 10s of a match, they should get a miniscule amount of the win/loss amount compared to somebody that has been there 15m.

    The rez spot can be difficult, because you do not want to force players to be farmed.

    Yep, one can go on and on about the various aspects of how F/P could, should be earned in WFs - the ups/downs of various thoughts...

    ...so yep, I think it is pretty complicated.


    If you can only receive credit for kills you participated in, who will ever want to actually defend a point? I mean, why should a person be responsible for trying to win the warfront by defending a point (or flags) when they are being punished for not trying to kill people on the other side of the map? Not to mention, this would heavily favor AoE classes, and would lead to every person spamming aoe's or tagging up multiple enemies before actually attempting to focus down a specific target.
    Last edited by Conundrum; 09-14-2011 at 06:02 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    If you can only receive credit for kills you participated in, who will ever want to actually defend a point? I mean, why should a person be responsible for trying to win the warfront by defending a point (or flags) when they are being punished for not trying to kill people on the other side of the map? Not to mention, this would heavily favor AoE classes, and would lead to every person spamming aoe's or tagging up multiple enemies before actually attempting to focus down a specific target.
    If people were not off fighting in the middle of nowhere, then more fighting would actually take place at the objectives - no?
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  13. #13
    Rift Master Shannae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baph View Post
    So when I'm on my way to the objective in whitefall riding along, or to another node at codex and someone jumps me I should get less reward for killing him because I'm currently not near an objective? When I see a rogue riding way off to the side to get around the zerg and sneak into our base to steal a shard during escalation, I should not kill him off to the side in the middle of nowhere because that would not contribute?
    These are examples of precisely why the kill credit is warfront wide. Nobody has proposed anything that isn't abuseable and accounts for these situations, amongst others.

    The only thing I could think of as an adjustment, is to provide PVP Immunity after respawning or first zoning in that remains until you move, and while you are so Immune, you receive no kill credit. This allows you to buff without fear even if someone has gotten up onto the edge of the graveyard and not teleported away (it does happen) while preventing AFKers from receiving their unjust reward without at least putting forth some effort to pretend to be participating.

    I ran into a guy with an outright bot program in Black Garden the other day. It moved him to a specific spot, rolled HoTs on himself, and flung Waterjet at anyone who came in range. He's botting, which is a serious offense, but at least his bot was contributing - if only a distraction and minimal damage. A person who currently just AFKs through could at least put forth as much effort as a damn bot.

    And that's about the limit of what automated systems can handle properly. The rest relies on us, the players, filing support tickets to deal with them.
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  14. #14
    Ale
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shannae View Post
    This allows you to buff without fear even if someone has gotten up onto the edge of the graveyard and not teleported away (it does happen) .
    I have opened a ticket twice now about gaurdians jumping up and farming the respawn without being teleported away, nothing has changed. IMHO Trion either wants it this way or simply doesnt care. I know defiants get booted imediately for this back to thier respawn as I have been on the ground in front of thier respawn and got yanked up by my target and was tp'd away instantly.

  15. #15
    Ascendant VirusDancer's Avatar
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    Thing is - there are plenty of locations on maps where folks can leave the starting spot and do nothing. Does not matter if it is Garden or Scion, Codex or Whitefall - there are plenty of places where folks will ride off to and just sit there...
    Kincayd (1)* - Omeki (1) - Comma (2) - Bugeisha (2) - Malphesiel (3)
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