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Thread: No healers, idiot leaders and no sense of PRIDE

  1. #31
    Plane Touched matthew84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phelissa View Post
    you so pro!
    Thanks!


    Seriously though this isn't about being pro. It's about a believe set and a competitive streak that should be prevalent in all those who PVP. We play team games yet compete with people inside our team for 'top spot' on the chart at all costs, including the loss of the game...

  2. #32
    Plane Touched matthew84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by habby View Post
    Clerics have 3 souls that specialize in healing, the class does not specialize in it.

    Clerics have 4 souls that specialize in damage. Guess that makes them specialists in damage.

    Understanding the soul system and what it will allow will help you get over the fact that not every cleric heals. I know a number of clerics that have no healing specs at all. They want to do damage or tank, which thanks to the way the soul system works, is very viable. The soul system allows a whole lot of flexibility in what you can do with each class in both PvE and PvP. No longer are you pigeonholed into what you "must" do in your class.
    5 that specialize in damage? Which are they then? Cabalist, Inquisitor, Shaman, Druid thats 4. justicar is tank/support. I call 3 healing souls compared to the only other actual healing class (mage - chloro) 1 sou, pretty specialized. I do believe that both inquisitor and justicar actually have various self healing abilities too.

    'Understanding the soul system' would also benefit you?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew84 View Post
    5 that specialize in damage? Which are they then? Cabalist, Inquisitor, Shaman, Druid thats 4. justicar is tank/support. I call 3 healing souls compared to the only other actual healing class (mage - chloro) 1 sou, pretty specialized. I do believe that both inquisitor and justicar actually have various self healing abilities too.

    'Understanding the soul system' would also benefit you?
    He said 4 in his post, not 5.

    Inqui and Justi are for self preservation, while shaman druid and cabby for for CC and/or all out damage (theoretically).

    In any event, people choose cleric to dps and not heal because the other dps souls are boring. Thats a good reason in itself.

  4. #34
    Plane Walker habby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew84 View Post
    5 that specialize in damage? Which are they then? Cabalist, Inquisitor, Shaman, Druid thats 4. justicar is tank/support. I call 3 healing souls compared to the only other actual healing class (mage - chloro) 1 sou, pretty specialized. I do believe that both inquisitor and justicar actually have various self healing abilities too.

    'Understanding the soul system' would also benefit you?
    And you chided someone else for reading comprehension, I said 4. And how do you equate self healing with being a healing soul? Guess that would make paladin a healing soul as well. (4 damage souls vs 3 healing souls, more tilted towards damage)

    Just because you consider cleric a healing class does not make it so.

    And FYI, I play a healing cleric almost exclusively, but that's because that's the role I enjoy playing.

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    Plane Touched matthew84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by habby View Post
    And you chided someone else for reading comprehension, I said 4. And how do you equate self healing with being a healing soul? Guess that would make paladin a healing soul as well. (4 damage souls vs 3 healing souls, more tilted towards damage)

    Just because you consider cleric a healing class does not make it so.

    And FYI, I play a healing cleric almost exclusively, but that's because that's the role I enjoy playing.
    No i equate the consistency of healing throughout even DPS souls as a choice of play style when choosing your calling.

    Apologies for the comprehension comment, I obviously misread, as opposed to you misunderstanding the premise this thread was written on.

    The problem is that people don't play to win. They aren't willing to do what they can. I don't enjoy flag running, but I do it. I don't really enjoy barding but I do it... because most of all I like to win the warfront. I want to see my team succeed.

    Also with regard to you enjoying healing, why did you role cleric then? Should have made a rogue apparently we are better healers...

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew84 View Post

    Also with regard to you enjoying healing, why did you role cleric then? Should have made a rogue apparently we are better healers...

    Because maybe he made his cleric back when clerics healed better than bards and chloros?
    Last edited by segro; 08-27-2011 at 12:40 PM.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew84 View Post
    That's right. You did, you repeated everything I already said in my post about my class.
    As a rogue my main role (as per the callings definitions) is to do damage. I have a sideline in support and also a sideline in tanking. I swap roles wherever I see fit, 5 or 6 times a warfront is common. Especially when flag running. But as a rogue my primary role, is damage.
    You said, your main role is to do damage.

    I said, your role is to NOT do damage in PVP, as your damage bites in a WF and you are best utilized as pure support (running flags, or marksman spamming eradicate) or healing/buffing as a bard. You said you have a sideline in support. I said you should ONLY BE support (bard is support). And if there are a lot of rogues in the WF on your side, you should just drop out before it starts so that the team may actually have a chance to win (since a lot of rogues on one side almost guarantees a win for the other side).

    How am I repeating what you said?

    And about healing as a cleric in a WF. The only real effective healing spec is Warden (crossed with Sent if you like). Warden is effective AOE healing. We DONT HAVE a good way to heal SINGLE TARGETS in WFs (unless the other team leaves us totally unmolested). We cannot get a 3 second cast spell off (most of the time, cant get a 1.5 second cast spell off) with anything on us. Even unmolested, if you are being assist trained, you will still die. So this concept of clerics popping targeted heals to counter an assist train is ludicrous. If you arent being assist trained, then AOE healing is the way to go (as it will keep you up and everyone else).

    So WF healing options are either:

    1. AOE heal to keep the group up overall if the enemy is not assist training single targets down.

    2. Attempt to cast big single target heals on a target that is going to be dead a long time before you get them off since they are being assist trained.

    This point above isnt really arguable. Believe me, Ive tried every healing spec out there for WFs to try to maximize my team's life and the best thing I can do is spam AOE HOTs and then AOE heals, unless we have forward momentum, in which case I only HOT up my p8 Warriors and watch them go to town.

    So AOE heals are king in WFs next to organized and timed crowd control use.

    Phew. If that doesnt explain why Bards are some of the best healers out there, and why your thought of the usefulness of big single target heals is not grounded in reality, I cannot help any further.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew84 View Post
    10% reduction and good healing clerics still rock... that 10% reduction made it possible for a team of 3 equal geared players to kill you as opposed to 5. It was balanced and you know it. Moody clerics fininally got touched in to gear and they trhew their toys out the pram. Poor excuse from what I see as a poor excuse of a PVP player... no matter how well you play your class. You completely missed the point of the whole post which is playing to win, whatever spec that means playing, like the bard spec I had made within 5 minutes of this post.

    For the record, being the 'best healer' in a warfront isn't topping the healing charts. It's saving lives. Those important heals/shields that take someone from near death to living to fight on. A bard is an AOE healer. They top charts because so many players went AOE read: Unskilled) damage spec and there is lots of health all over the place needing to be healed. But a bard will not save someone from a warrior train with it's heals.

    For the record I wasn't laughing when the cleric heals got nerfed. But I thought i was justified the only people that didn't where the clerics and they would rather lose all the warfronts than suck it up like every other class and it's nerfs... Clerics have received far less 'negative' adjustment in this game than any calling.

    It's players like you I am directing this post at. Get some ****ing pride in winning as a team and contributing. Not with mere numbers on a score board, but the win at the end.
    Up to 30% (observed) on hots.

    I have no pride left. You goddam rank 8 players flat-footed keyboard turning and two shotting my whole team have left me totally ****ing disgusted.

    So - when I see R8, there is no way I'm healing his ***. Period. And when (actually if) I hit R8, I won't heal period.

    Put that in your pipe.

  9. #39
    Champion of Telara Liandral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew84 View Post
    10% reduction and good healing clerics still rock... that 10% reduction made it possible for a team of 3 equal geared players to kill you as opposed to 5. It was balanced and you know it. Moody clerics fininally got touched in to gear and they trhew their toys out the pram. Poor excuse from what I see as a poor excuse of a PVP player... no matter how well you play your class. You completely missed the point of the whole post which is playing to win, whatever spec that means playing, like the bard spec I had made within 5 minutes of this post.

    For the record, being the 'best healer' in a warfront isn't topping the healing charts. It's saving lives. Those important heals/shields that take someone from near death to living to fight on. A bard is an AOE healer. They top charts because so many players went AOE read: Unskilled) damage spec and there is lots of health all over the place needing to be healed. But a bard will not save someone from a warrior train with it's heals.

    For the record I wasn't laughing when the cleric heals got nerfed. But I thought i was justified the only people that didn't where the clerics and they would rather lose all the warfronts than suck it up like every other class and it's nerfs... Clerics have received far less 'negative' adjustment in this game than any calling.

    It's players like you I am directing this post at. Get some ****ing pride in winning as a team and contributing. Not with mere numbers on a score board, but the win at the end.
    Such arrogant self-entitlement..

    You made a bard spec after you made this post? pffffttt yeah right

    Here's a tip sunshine - my cabbie gets top damage and kb's, and can mass stun. mass silence, snare, and mass debuff way above your sad little roguey efforts so hmm I think I'm contributing to the team far more than you are so here's a tip...

    Bard healing rocks so be a good team player and spec nothing but that ok?

    After all, that's what your whinging clerics should do

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    Total healing done is a poor measure of healing potency. It's attitudes and perspectives like yours that undermine group PvP as a whole. Bards have no targeted healing. They can't top up the guy who is about to die. They can't readily heal themselves when they're getting focused. They have to be within 20m of a viable target to generate any healing at all.
    Sounds like you never saw how new whitefall works
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  11. #41
    Plane Touched matthew84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liandral View Post
    Such arrogant self-entitlement..

    You made a bard spec after you made this post? pffffttt yeah right

    Here's a tip sunshine - my cabbie gets top damage and kb's, and can mass stun. mass silence, snare, and mass debuff way above your sad little roguey efforts so hmm I think I'm contributing to the team far more than you are so here's a tip...

    Bard healing rocks so be a good team player and spec nothing but that ok?

    After all, that's what your whinging clerics should do
    AOE silence, AOE snare, and damage that competes with Cab if i do as cabs do and just pick the centre of the group. If I focus on key targets that are running outside of group (like they should be) as sab i will get low dps... same as your cab spec would.

  12. #42
    Champion of Telara Liandral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew84 View Post
    AOE silence, AOE snare, and damage that competes with Cab if i do as cabs do and just pick the centre of the group. If I focus on key targets that are running outside of group (like they should be) as sab i will get low dps... same as your cab spec would.
    Go bard, use a run spec..

    Quite frankly I'm appalled at your arrogance to attack others for poor team work when each of your posts proves that you only care about yourself, getting top in the scoreboards and trying to get others to play support roles so you can continue to play how YOU wish

    Selfish little person, arent you
    Last edited by Liandral; 08-27-2011 at 01:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onihero View Post
    You said, your main role is to do damage.

    I said, your role is to NOT do damage in PVP, as your damage bites in a WF and you are best utilized as pure support (running flags, or marksman spamming eradicate) or healing/buffing as a bard. You said you have a sideline in support. I said you should ONLY BE support (bard is support). And if there are a lot of rogues in the WF on your side, you should just drop out before it starts so that the team may actually have a chance to win (since a lot of rogues on one side almost guarantees a win for the other side).

    How am I repeating what you said?

    And about healing as a cleric in a WF. The only real effective healing spec is Warden (crossed with Sent if you like). Warden is effective AOE healing. We DONT HAVE a good way to heal SINGLE TARGETS in WFs (unless the other team leaves us totally unmolested). We cannot get a 3 second cast spell off (most of the time, cant get a 1.5 second cast spell off) with anything on us. Even unmolested, if you are being assist trained, you will still die. So this concept of clerics popping targeted heals to counter an assist train is ludicrous. If you arent being assist trained, then AOE healing is the way to go (as it will keep you up and everyone else).

    So WF healing options are either:

    1. AOE heal to keep the group up overall if the enemy is not assist training single targets down.

    2. Attempt to cast big single target heals on a target that is going to be dead a long time before you get them off since they are being assist trained.

    This point above isnt really arguable. Believe me, Ive tried every healing spec out there for WFs to try to maximize my team's life and the best thing I can do is spam AOE HOTs and then AOE heals, unless we have forward momentum, in which case I only HOT up my p8 Warriors and watch them go to town.

    So AOE heals are king in WFs next to organized and timed crowd control use.

    Phew. If that doesnt explain why Bards are some of the best healers out there, and why your thought of the usefulness of big single target heals is not grounded in reality, I cannot help any further.
    It's odd because I know clerics that do just great with single target heals... I also did not doubt that bards do great healing... clerics are better because of their healing versatility. They have the AOE, single target, focussed, life saving cooldowns etc etc etc. You are wrong about rogues not doing any damage and not killing anyone, dead wrong.

    But if you would like to move that sentiment to the post where some guy is screaming for rogue buffs then feel free.

    All I see is a bunch of clerics fighting against their power to turn a loss in to a win better than any other class. It's beyond me how you guys could be so blinkered. Play DPS, I am not bothered about taking your entitlement away. I just think you should get a grip and realize that choosing a cleric means having a damn sight more power to sway a battle than any other class... I also did say it was the same for all classes including mine and listed the ways I do ****ing contribute and why.

    Again, I say... Play to win.

  14. #44
    Plane Touched matthew84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liandral View Post
    Go bard, use a run spec..

    Quite frankly I'm appalled at your arrogance to attack others for poor team work when each of your posts proves that you only care about yourself, getting top in the scoreboards and trying to get others to play support roles so you can continue to play how YOU wish

    Selfish little person, arent you
    I think you have missed a lot of what has been written. Have you read any of this thread? My comments have been specifically about TEAM wins. I have only commented about myself in defence.

    I do have a run spec, I have started to play bard... I use those roles when they are required to contribute towards a warfront win. If this thread offends you then you obviously understand the general gist and feel it applies to you as a player. Something you find offensive.

    I am not selfish, I am not making demands I seek to understand WHY people don't play to win. For gods sake if i go in to a warfront with my healer buddy and there are 5 healing clerics I tell him to go caba so we can get some DPS down...

    The issue is when something is lacking and required for the win, people dont step up. They would rather lose and tell anyone who comments to **** off... What the hell is that? Why don't they want to win?

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew84 View Post
    It's odd because I know clerics that do just great with single target heals... I also did not doubt that bards do great healing... clerics are better because of their healing versatility. They have the AOE, single target, focussed, life saving cooldowns etc etc etc. You are wrong about rogues not doing any damage and not killing anyone, dead wrong.

    But if you would like to move that sentiment to the post where some guy is screaming for rogue buffs then feel free.

    All I see is a bunch of clerics fighting against their power to turn a loss in to a win better than any other class. It's beyond me how you guys could be so blinkered. Play DPS, I am not bothered about taking your entitlement away. I just think you should get a grip and realize that choosing a cleric means having a damn sight more power to sway a battle than any other class... I also did say it was the same for all classes including mine and listed the ways I do ****ing contribute and why.

    Again, I say... Play to win.
    A cleric that enjoys healing and understands their own soul choices can make a difference.

    A cleric that hates healing, is easily frustrated and doesn't understand the ins and outs of the healing souls is a complete waste of space.

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