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Thread: Please fix natures fury..... breaks stealth when far away from teammates.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reiz View Post
    Yeah, who needs a silly thing like balance. Lets just give everyone instagib abilities with 1000m range.
    According to this thread; its 30m from initial target, and the pit edge to the ledge in bg is 30m, and it ignores los. Yet Ive never been hit running back from spawn.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reiz View Post
    How can you avoid a heat seeking missile that randomly targets you even though the caster doesn't know you're there and outside of a range it shouldn't possibly have?

    I get what you're saying but my experience is that it tracks me down when I'm farther from people than it should. Deny it if you wish, but it doesn't change my experience with the skill.
    I'm not denying you are getting hit at crazy ranges. I explained how that happens also. It seeks exactly how it is designed to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango View Post
    But it isn't a stealth counter, just a buggy skill. Your stealth counter as a mage is in your PvP soul.
    It is not a buggy ability either. It works exactly as it is described to work. How is that buggy? Because you disagree with how it works, it is buggy. If this ability should never break stealth and we use your logic, then no ability but those in the pvp soul should break stealth. Yeah, that is wonderful idea. Talk about OP stealth mechanics if that is how you think it should work.

    Again I say, reduce the range to normal aoe distance if you want to make rogues happy. I would rather have more control over who gets hit with the bounces. Although, I don't see it as unfair or unbalanced.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan View Post
    The range is indeed huge. Everyone who did AP with a chloro will know that if nature's fury is used when you just enter the cave after Icetalon, it pulls the mobs at the upper side of the cave about 100% of the time, wiping the group about 90% of the time

    But rogues shouldn't whine about this as a stealth counter, it's bad enough that they have in-combat stealth and stealth that (temporarily) doesn't break on damage. If you change the stealth counters, also change the stealth itself so it's fair for everyone.
    I think that a lot of rogues would prefer that the abilities that knock them out of stealth would have to be used more intelligently than what we currently have now. There are abilities in the game that players can use specifically and intentionally to counter stealth. Then there are abilities that players can use with no idea there's even a stealthed rogue nearby and the rogue is pooched.

    To play an assassin in level 50 warfronts is to understand just how fragile stealth really is. Yes, we have Hidden Veil. It's heavily restricted. Yes, we have Slip Away...it's on a 2m CD like other emergency cooldowns, but since the devs have already said they're re-examining rogues to make them more competitive without needing to rely on Slip Away as an offensive tool, there's not much point about going into it too much now. Suffice it to say that up to this point, an assassin without stealth is at a severe disadvantage, and it's not like we can avoid getting knocked out of stealth and/or get back into stealth in combat whenever we want.

    Example, just to illustrate:

    I go into Port Scion. I buff Hidden Veil before the match starts. I head out, drop into stealth, zero in on a juicy target and open on them but they're pretty beefy and I'm struggling to finish them off so I hit Slip Away and re-open on them to get that little extra burst. Whether they die or not, somehow I end up dying. No biggie. That's just a part of warfronts.

    For any other calling (and pretty much any other rogue, for that matter), they pop up at the GY maybe missing some defensive/offensive cooldowns but otherwise they're game to get back into the fight at full efficiency.

    For an assassin, they pop up at the GY and they're confronted with two issues. The first issue is that the cooldown on Hidden Veil STARTED when they died and the buff fell off. They didn't even get any benefit out of it, but that's the way it works. The cooldown doesn't start counting down until the buff from the previous application is gone. Now the assassin has no protection from being knocked out of stealth whatseover, and because they used Slip Away to recover some burst and augment their damage, that's on cooldown as well.

    So now they're heading back into the fight. They need stealth to be truly effective. The soul is built around it. So they're trying to be extra careful about not getting too close to anyone and not getting anywhere near enemy AoE and all of a sudden some tertiary long-range AoE fired by an enemy player that didn't even know the rogue was there pops them out of stealth. The rogue's only chance at that point is to find a place to duck out of sight and hope nobody gives chase for the next ten seconds while they wait for stealth to come off CD so they can try again.

    Imagine if Cavalier had a 2 minute cooldown that started when it fell off. Imagine if Lifegiving Veil had a 2 minute cooldown that started when it fell off. I don't think there would be too many justicar hybrid builds or chloromancers very thrilled at the idea of having to wait two minutes after dying to regain access to key buffs that keep them viable. In the warfront environment and with the way AoE is set up (aka Nature's Fury, Fan Out, Fork'ed riftblade spears), Hidden Veil is a critical assassin buff that keeps them viable. Careful planning and skilled anticipation go a long way in allowing a skilled rogue to avoid getting popped, but nobody can anticipate everything.

    Let me put it to you this way: MM were given Eradicate and when it first went live, it could purge Livegiving Veil. Chloromancers were most displeased, and rightly so. Why should a spammable ability be able to so easily cripple a soul like that? Fan Out is a spammable ability and it has been knocking assassins out of stealth since launch but we just roll with the punches and try to make the best of it.

    Ergo, the position of a lot of rogues is that if we're going to be so heavily restricted in terms of abilities we have that allow us to navigate AoE-heavy environments without getting knocked out of stealth, we would prefer if those abilities required a bit more thought than simply, "Oh look...I just unstealthed a rogue lol...I didn't even know he was there."

  4. #34
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    Exactly. Essentially what the other guy is saying is that if you were "within range" when it's cast, even if you move 1000m away, it's still going to chase you down and hit you. That is stupid. Even heat seeking missiles have a maximum range.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reiz View Post
    Exactly. Essentially what the other guy is saying is that if you were "within range" when it's cast, even if you move 1000m away, it's still going to chase you down and hit you. That is stupid. Even heat seeking missiles have a maximum range.
    Realistically speaking, if you're in range when it's cast it's going to hit you anyways because the bounces are pretty much instant. The chances of being able to see it and get out of the way are slim to none. The difficulty I have with it (as with Fan Out and forked Spears) is that I have no control over where my teammates go. I can have a safe route and a plan in mind and everything goes to hell when someone on my team gets too close. At that point, my options to recover are slim to none.

    The reason I don't kvetch about it too much is because on an oorganized team of people who are actually intelligent and playing to win, I could say, "Hey guys, if you see me stealthed somewhere, please just stay away from me so I don't get popped by AoE aimed at you" and they'd be like, "No problem dood, we got ya" and then it's problem solved.

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