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Thread: DO NOT seperate queues for different prestige ranks.

  1. #1
    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    Default DO NOT seperate queues for different prestige ranks.

    When I was a fresh 50 Mage, I died in every encounter. I started playing Rift during the middle of patch 1.2, and started warfronts in which the opposing team would often have a handful of r6's. I didn't want separate queues then and I don't want it now. This is a game of progression .

    If queues are split into 1-4 and 5-8, it will make absolutely no difference. I will kill a rank 5 just as fast as a rank 2. People will still complain about gear imbalance, and all that will have been achieved is unnecessary segregation, resulting in longer queue times.

    I won't be able to play with my r2 cleric friend any more if this is implemented, and playing with friends is the only thing that keeps me excited about playing warfronts at this level of prestige.

    Lastly, I have no preference in fighting high ranks or low ranks. It's all fun to me. Just saying, since some egoistic people are bound to say that this is an argument for the continuation of face-rolling ungeared players. Said players should not be going rambo and whacking on the player with an r6-8 hood (and noticeably higher hit points), expecting an easy fight.

    I just feel another tiering system is not the way to go, though I respect that many here on the forums do want it to happen.

    Flame and criticism are welcome, as is support.
    Last edited by Soul sky; 08-25-2011 at 09:26 PM.
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  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post
    When I was a fresh 50 Mage, I died in every encounter. I started playing Rift during the middle of patch 1.2, and started warfronts in which the opposing team would often have a handful of r6's. I didn't want separate queues then and I don't want it now. This is a game of progression .

    If queues are split into 1-4 and 5-8, it will make absolutely no difference. I will kill a rank 5 just as fast as a rank 2. People will still complain about gear imbalance, and all that will have been achieved is unnecessary segregation, resulting in longer queue times.

    I won't be able to play with my r2 cleric friend any more if this is implemented, and playing with friends is the only thing that keeps me excited about playing warfronts at this level of prestige.

    Lastly, I have no preference in fighting high ranks or low ranks. It's all fun to me. Just saying, since some egoistic people are bound to say that this is an argument for the continuation of face-rolling ungeared players. Said players should not be going rambo and whacking on the player with an r6-8 hood (and noticeably higher hit points), expecting an easy fight.

    I just feel another tiering system is not the way to go, though I respect that many here on the forums do want it to happen.

    Flame and criticism are welcome, as is support.
    And I disagree. Separating the ranks is needed just like you wont want level 20s fighting level 38s. When one toon has so much of a stat/gear advantage to it takes the fun/skill out of the game. Separating the ranks will put all the people who play the game 40hrs/week together, and keep the people who play it not religiously together. Just like you had to wait on your buddy to hit 50, you have to wait on him to hit the 'best tier' level. You want the game catered to the 10% of the population that have hundreds of hours of play time in. I (and I assume trion, if they want to get millions of new subscribers) want to allow the hardcores to play vs. themselves, and have the not so hardcore play themselves... not hardcores bashing casuals 24/7.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post
    When I was a fresh 50 Mage, I died in every encounter. I didn't want separate queues then and I don't want it now. This is a game of progression in both PvE and PvP.

    If queues are split into 1-4 and 5-8, it will make absolutely no difference. I will kill a rank 5 just as fast as a rank 2. People will still complain about gear imbalance, and all that will have been achieved is unnecessary segregation, resulting in longer queue times.

    I won't be able to play with my r2 cleric friend any more if this is implemented, and playing with friends is the only thing that keeps me excited about playing warfronts at this level of prestige.

    Lastly, I have no preference in fighting high ranks or low ranks. It's all fun to me. Just saying, since some egoistic people are bound to say that this is an argument for the continuation of face-rolling ungeared players. Said players should not be going rambo and whacking on the player with an r6-8 hood (and noticeably higher hit points), expecting an easy fight.

    I just feel another tiering system is not the way to go, though I respect that many here on the forums do want it to happen.

    Flame and criticism are welcome, as is support.
    I'm ambivalent to the idea of a split. They could split 1-4/5-8 or they could leave it alone.

    It's not just an issue of how easy it is for you to kill a rank 1 vs. a rank 5, or how you enjoy playing with your lower ranked friends. It's not about the lower ranked players approaching PvP in the Rambo style because you're rarely in a situation where you have complete control over who you're fighting. If you're a rank 8 and you zero in on a rank 2, DR means that if they don't have LoS and/or friends handy, they're a goner.

    But on the flip side of the coin, I hate to see coordinated group play undermined because of the wailing of people who simply don't know what the hell they're doing. I know without question that there are people who scream 'premade' every time they get trounced in a warfront. I was in BG on my cleric earlier tonight reminding myself that the 10-19 bracket is the training ground for a lot of people when it comes to Rift PvP. And because there's a trial event going on and there are newbies all over the place, I withheld the brunt of my criticism at the horribly inept play of my teammates. I did three matches and we got obliterated in all of them and the fault had nothing to do with the people on the other team. Half of them could have been AFK and they'd have still won because my team was fundamentally useless in every regard.

    There's room to accept that things could be tweaked to be a little more forgiving for lower ranked level 50s, but there's also room for the chronic whiners to step up to the plate and stop sniveling every time they get a beating.

  4. #4
    Champion Timewarp's Avatar
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    Given the amount of valor on gear, the 1-4 and 5-8 split do not make sense.
    1-3, 4-6, 7-8 would better account for valor and gear-power differences. This will also give r6 players some time as top dogs before leveling into the next bracket.

    The problem with either split is players dominating low brackets in their T1-T2 raid gear. It would have to be addressed for the sake of fairness. Otherwise splitting up anything is pointless.
    Cataclysm broke WoW, but resilience will fix it!

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    Champion Timewarp's Avatar
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    Additionally...

    As stated by Paradoxx, power imbalances are no fun for people on the receiving end. When no amount of L2P can help even the odds, something has to be adjusted. Also remember the current p7-8 players for the most part played on an even field through their pvp careers. You have to consider new players who have not had the luxury of 6mo to grind out prestige and gear. Their experiences are completely different from those who pvpd from the beginning. Prestige and favor grinds are easier, but the battles are harder because new players battle against veterans that are geared/armed to the teeth.
    Cataclysm broke WoW, but resilience will fix it!

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    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    Fair responses so far. However I have a question:

    What is to stop Hammerknell geared players (equal to r8 players in terms of damage, depending on synergy crystals) from entering the lower brackets? They would lose out on 1-20% damage mitigation, and continue to >3 global cooldown those in their bracket. It would essentially still be elitist high geared player face-rolling low ranked player. Please don't argue that 1-20% mitigation with offensive stats under half that of high-end raid gear would be any more acceptable than the current queue system.

    Trust me, the rants would then move on to only allowing PvP gear to be worn in war fronts, which would result in further raging. Valor should be an incentive and inspiration to grind through warfronts; the nerf-train is not a smart place for Trion to board.
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  7. #7
    Banned Swiftly's Avatar
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    Their wont be a game, or a population to support it if you dont separate them. Too many bads and QQer's.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timewarp View Post
    Given the amount of valor on gear, the 1-4 and 5-8 split do not make sense.
    1-3, 4-6, 7-8 would better account for valor and gear-power differences. This will also give r6 players some time as top dogs before leveling into the next bracket.

    The problem with either split is players dominating low brackets in their T1-T2 raid gear. It would have to be addressed for the sake of fairness. Otherwise splitting up anything is pointless.
    Though I don't want it implemented - if it is, this would be the way to go. R8 dominates r5-6. However, thinking of the queue times in these 3 groups makes me feel nauseous.
    Valery@Zaviel - Mage | Valzz - Cleric | Soulsky - Rogue | Introvert - Warrior
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post
    Fair responses so far. However I have a question:

    What is to stop Hammerknell geared players (equal to r8 players in terms of damage, depending on synergy crystals) from entering the lower brackets? They would lose out on 1-20% damage mitigation, and continue to >3 global cooldown those in their bracket. It would essentially still be elitist high geared player face-rolling low ranked player. Please don't argue that 1-20% mitigation with offensive stats under half that of high-end raid gear would be any more acceptable than the current queue system.

    Trust me, the rants would then move on to only allowing PvP gear to be worn in war fronts, which would result in further raging. Valor should be an incentive and inspiration to grind through warfronts; the nerf-train is not a smart place for Trion to board.
    The devs have gone on record as saying that they don't want PvE and PvP gear to be so different that you can't mix and match to at least some extent, which leads me to believe that we would never see a case where PvE gear was forbidden in warfronts. Later on when Hammerknell is on PUG farm status (if it ever gets that way), having all kinds of rank 1-4 players showing up to warfronts in full HK raid gear might be an issue. As it stands, the folks gearing in head-to-toe HK gear are (and will for some time remain) a relative minority. And most of them aren't going to be rank 1.

    I remember when top ranked arena players in WoW would go into warfronts with small premade groups and wreak havoc. People complained. Nothing was changed. WoW didn't suffer appreciably for it. People can threaten and complain of the dire consequences Trion will experience if they don't change things soon, but Rift isn't just a PvP game. There are lots of people who play who have nothing to do with warfronts as anything other than something to do once every few months for gits and shiggles. And they'll get beat down and they'll queue again or they won't. Life will go on.

    Funny how the PvP folks are always the ones claiming the game will die without them...

  10. #10
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    Think about recent or new 'wow' players who heard about rift and finally try it. They get to 50, see how long it will take to grind to the top gear, see that it is a total grind not a matchmaking system, see how lopsided the games are... these people are gonna just leave. There are millions of them.

    You may not care that they do, but I bet trion does. And obviously the more new customers you get the lower the que times.

    I currently play both, well tbh i dont play right now but my account hasnt run out of time yet. Atm wow has lower que times, and the win rate is much much closer to even per faction. And course you have a matchmaking system as well.

    IMO if rift doesnt make pvp compeitive they will never get that big growth, and they will slowly bleed off customers, going back to wow or to star wars. Rift is a great game imo, just really need to make the pvp experience fun for people other than the people who have 10,000hrs of playtime in.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    You want the game catered to the 10% of the population that have hundreds of hours of play time in.
    Please do not use 'you' to create the context that it is my opinion (as it is not), or make up statistics of the player base which you have no information (besides anecdotal at best).

    I want the PvP side of the game catered to PvP'ers. It is my opinion that queue splits will not benefit PvP'ers. Reasons stated in the original post.
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  12. #12
    Plane Walker Radamanthys's Avatar
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    OK so lets say I have 1 hour to play(RL doesnt getting paused) and I queue now, i will play 2-3 WFs.
    Is they separate the Ranks i will have to wait 20 mins to get in a WF and play only 1?
    Anyone considered that?Not all ppl play atls and play >3hours a day

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoxxx View Post
    Think about recent or new 'wow' players who heard about rift and finally try it. They get to 50, see how long it will take to grind to the top gear, see that it is a total grind not a matchmaking system, see how lopsided the games are... these people are gonna just leave. There are millions of them.

    You may not care that they do, but I bet trion does. And obviously the more new customers you get the lower the que times.

    I currently play both, well tbh i dont play right now but my account hasnt run out of time yet. Atm wow has lower que times, and the win rate is much much closer to even per faction. And course you have a matchmaking system as well.

    IMO if rift doesnt make pvp compeitive they will never get that big growth, and they will slowly bleed off customers, going back to wow or to star wars. Rift is a great game imo, just really need to make the pvp experience fun for people other than the people who have 10,000hrs of playtime in.
    I came here to talk about this exact subject. I just hit 50, went to a warfront, and was completely useless. Honestly, I could have had as much of an impact on the battle if I just afked. It isn't even a matter of targeting the wrong person, I tried to hide and snipe, I got blown up by stray AOE's.

    Part of the problem is, I have a ton of favor and nothing to spend it on. I was damn near favor capped when I hit 50 and could buy 4 PvP purples, all of them accessories. As it stands it appears that I have a huge grind, while getting non-stopped gibbed, just to get bottom tier PvP gear that still won't be that competitive.

    The better solution is the one WoW went with. When a new rank is implemented, a previous rank loses it's rank requirement. So, when rank 8 comes out the rank 5 gear no longer needs a certain rank to equip. The key is to make decent, but not great gear available to a fresh 50.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Tigruz's Avatar
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    If they did the split (1-4/5-8), I think they should implement a mentoring system so people that are high ranks can still play with their lower ranking friends. Trion would just have to scale the higher ranking player armor/higher ranking abilities (Overload comes to mind, abilities like that) down to the appropriate levels, ie Rank 7 items would be on the same level as rank 5 items.

    I wonder if that would help alleviate some people's worries about not being able to play with their friends or guildies.
    Last edited by Tigruz; 08-25-2011 at 10:29 PM.
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    LOL at all the baddies that want things given to them

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