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Thread: PvP Gear: More time to attain than PvE, so why the complaining?

  1. #106
    Ascendant Jaya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiHeilos View Post
    850k prestige from rank 6 to 8, 4k per hour, 850/4 = 212... 212 hours < 480 hours.
    Interesting. 212 is not the 600 that was just being used. How do you explain such a discrepancy of numbers?

    Do you really contend that folks are raiding just HK 4 days a week, 6 hours a day and will continue to do so for 5 months? Because that 480 was intended to be a fairly gross over-exaggeration of the raid time needed.
    Last edited by Jaya; 08-24-2011 at 12:50 PM.
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  2. #107
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    This has turned into a very elitist thread. You know what happens to elitists? They whine about game companies catering to players who are not at the top. Guess what? Maybe PVP gear was intentionally useful in PVE too so other people could experience raid content without farming T1 raids at the same level as the hardcore guilds have been doing for months. Maybe they are doing what's best for $$$ and you're too self-centered to pay attention to that. Do you even want a 'Rift' to play in over the coming months? Or would you rather the game be so catering only to HC players that others get fed up and ditch it, leaving you with little to no new content? I'm sure you want the latter, amirite?

    Chances are, even with the R8 gear, the normal player-base will still have a tough time clearing T1 raids. All raid fights still require very timely raid mechanics. You also realize chimpanzees are like 10x stronger than humans; do they rule this planet? No, because they fail at raid mechanics and would rather make funny noises, throw their **** at each other, and lick windows.

    Just because Trion has decided to make the gear available to all players, doesn't mean everyone will have it and certainly does not mean all those people getting it will ever be at the top. We all know this, so stop whining. I drive a Porsche. I'm not mad if you do too, cause I know how to pick up ***** in it. Yusomadbros?

  3. #108
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    This one time, i posted in a thread about stuff thats not fair. poor me....
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  4. #109
    Rift Master KaiHeilos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
    Interesting. 212 is not the 600 that was just being used. How do you explain such a discrepancy of numbers?
    Because people exaggerate and pull numbers out of their ***.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
    Do you really contend that folks are raiding just HK 4 days a week, 6 hours a day and will continue to do so for 5 months? Because that 480 was intended to be a fairly gross over-exaggeration of the raid time needed.
    If they have already got every bit of loot from Tier 1, then yes they will continue to put that much time into Hammerknell untill it is on farm.

    Assuming that it will take two months to put it on farm (I think its been out for a month now and people are halfway),

    6*4*8 = 192 hours untill it's on farm.

    Then assuming for the next 12 weeks you put in only 4 hours a week

    (4*12)+192 = 240

    212 is still lower than 240, plus the PvE gear is largely based on the RNG. If the item you want doesn't drop, then you don't get it no matter how many hours you put in.

  5. #110
    Ascendant Jaya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiHeilos View Post
    Because people exaggerate and pull numbers out of their ***.
    You don't actually give a source or backup for your number either...

    is there a reason why I should assume that you're not underexagerating and pulling numbers out of your donkey, just like you claim they are?

    If they have already got every bit of loot from Tier 1, then yes they will continue to put that much time into Hammerknell untill it is on farm.

    Assuming that it will take two months to put it on farm (I think its been out for a month now and people are halfway),

    6*4*8 = 192 hours untill it's on farm.

    Then assuming for the next 12 weeks you put in only 4 hours a week

    (4*12)+192 = 240

    212 is still lower than 240, plus the PvE gear is largely based on the RNG. If the item you want doesn't drop, then you don't get it no matter how many hours you put in.
    Eh, I'm honestly still skeptical of the 192.

    if, for example, someone was only raiding 3 night a week in HK for 6 hours a night, that cuts that down to 144 + 48 = 192 total hours, which is less than the alleged 212.
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  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiHeilos View Post
    ITT; Fatalflaw is bad at PvP and isn't r8, so anyone who has r8 either exploited or lives in their parents basement. He doesn't like PvE so it's incredibly easy and everyone is just bad at it, except him because he doesn't do it, by choice.

    Basically, you lost the debate and now you're insulting everyone who proves you wrong. Way to win the internets.
    Nah I'm pretty good at pvp. Not the best but I'm pretty good.

    I'm halfway through r7 at the moment, but do my pvp dailies religiously and spent at least a good portion of one day non-stop queueing for the bonus WF's. I feel like I've spent a lot of time doing pvp. That's why I get a bit upset when people play down the grind. Didn't mean to offend anyone.

    I'm in a pve guild so I do feel like I have some perspective on both worlds. I know I spend 95% of my time in the game working towards R8, and the pve crowd isn't even online too much outside of raid times. I guess you can say well that's because of raid times etc.. but when I see all of the following:
    -Lack of pve progress
    -Raiders only online during raid times
    -PvE only players complaining about their lack of progress and how good pvp armor is.
    -PvE players making no attempt to find a better guild, play more, or get pvp items in the mean time..

    This is what upsets me about the whole situation, when I spend far more time and energy trying to better my gear AND use it in the raid to help them!

    Saying your 20 players are not all good, or that you can't find 20 members isn't a valid argument. You are free to find a new guild that raids more often and has more geared competent members.. and just one more time...if pvp gear is so good, then get it. It won't get you into HK with the hit that it has though. You would still need raid plaque helmet, gloves, raid level rings and necklace, and maybe even a raid weapon to reach the HK hit cap..

    TLDR: PvP gear- nothing to cry about
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  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
    So, any time fighting those 2 bosses can't be counted as raid hours; they're optional according to Landru's logic...
    Nobody is afk'ing or being carried through HK....You're argument here is way off. Find me a raid that lets one if their members come just for loot.
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  8. #113
    Rift Master KaiHeilos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
    You don't actually give a source or backup for your number either...
    You mean other than were I explained it in my original post?

    850k prestige from rank 6 to 8, 4k per hour, 850/4 = 212
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
    Eh, I'm honestly still skeptical of the 192.

    if, for example, someone was only raiding 3 night a week in HK for 6 hours a night, that cuts that down to 144 + 48 = 192 total hours, which is less than the alleged 212.
    And thus, the reason this entire thread is completely and utterly pointless and impossible to prove. People put in varying amounts of time and effort for everything they do, people spend different amount of time working towards various goals. There is not set number for the amount of hours anything takes in this game, all we are doing is making up numbers based on assumptions of what people might or might not be doing.

  9. #114
    Ascendant Jaya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiHeilos View Post
    You mean other than were I explained it in my original post?
    That's not an explanation. That's a number calculated from another number pulled out of your donkey.

    And thus, the reason this entire thread is completely and utterly pointless and impossible to prove. People put in varying amounts of time and effort for everything they do, people spend different amount of time working towards various goals. There is not set number for the amount of hours anything takes in this game, all we are doing is making up numbers based on assumptions of what people might or might not be doing.
    No, it has a point. The issue is, you can't just set the numbers and demand that everyone agree.

    He's the general template for making this a useful discussion
    1. Side A come up with numbers
    2. Side B points out that it's an apples to oranges comparison and suggests different methodology and numbers
    3. Repeat #2 switching sides until you agree on methodology
    4. Side X agrees with the methodology, but disagrees with the numbers themselves, proposes alternative numbers
    5. repeat 4 until folks agree on the numbers, or agree to disagree.

    It's possible that we're on step 5, repeating... seems far from pointless to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattya802 View Post
    Nobody is afk'ing or being carried through HK....
    That's an interesting claim; note that I'm not the first person to suggest that it's happening. Even if it's not currently, pretending that it will continue to not happen is not being very realistic.
    You're argument here is way off. Find me a raid that lets one if their members come just for loot.
    Its far from uncommon in MMOs that have raids.
    Last edited by Jaya; 08-24-2011 at 01:33 PM.
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  10. #115
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    If they clear all 10 bosses every week in those 3 nights, sure. It's not the case though.

    Also, that calculation makes sense since the prestige amounts needed are known and you can easily make an estimate for the prestige earned per hour. The rest is just simple math.
    Last edited by Alphina; 08-24-2011 at 01:45 PM.

  11. #116
    Rift Master KaiHeilos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
    That's not an explanation. That's a number calculated from another number pulled out of your donkey.
    850k needed for rank 7+8. Fact.
    4k per hour. Debatable, but the most widely used number.
    850/4=212. Simple Math.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
    That's an interesting claim; note that I'm not the first person to suggest that it's happening. Even if it's not currently, pretending that it will continue to not happen is not being very realistic.
    The argument is that it's easier to get Hammerknell gear from the day of release. No one is going to let you AFK for gear while they're still working on progression.
    Last edited by KaiHeilos; 08-24-2011 at 01:54 PM.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiHeilos View Post
    4k per hour. Debatable, but the most widely used number.
    So, this is the number that appears pulled out of your *** that I was referring to... if you want to source this a bit, and get folks to agree to it, that's fine, but just whipping it out and waving it around is insufficient. note I'm not saying that you're wrong, just that if you want to have that meaningful discussion that's something you need to go back and touch base over.

    He's another thought: what about the people who don't raid much (or even at all) while the guild is learning the encounters, and then wind up getting in once it's on farm... they would almost certainly spend far less time raiding than someone would getting r8, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alphina View Post
    If they clear all 10 bosses every week in those 3 nights, sure. It's not the case though.
    That's the pre-farm period, so you don't have to clear all 10 bosses then. The assumption there seems to be that 3 nights a week for 6 hours for 2 months = clearing the instance at the end of that 2 months. I can't speak to how reasonable or unreasonable that is, but it doesn't seem to far fetched to me.
    Last edited by Jaya; 08-24-2011 at 02:01 PM.
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  13. #118
    Rift Master KaiHeilos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
    So, this is the number that appears pulled out of your *** that I was referring to... if you want to source this a bit, and get folks to agree to it, that's fine, but just whipping it out and waving it around is insufficient. note I'm not saying that you're wrong, just that if you want to have that meaningful discussion that's something you need to go back and touch base over.
    Quote Originally Posted by Etadanik View Post
    Black Garden, which is the WF that takes the least amount of time, gives about 1000 prestige on average for about 10-15 minutes of PvP.

    Assuming queues are near instant, and they usually are if you play during prime time, this results in approximately 4000 prestige per hour if you account for the time it takes for the WF to actually start.

    Rank 6+ require approximately 450,000 prestige for each rank.

    This comes out to about 300 hours in total to go from R6 to R8. During this process, you'll have accumulated enough honor to buy several pieces of R8 when you actually get there.

    This is not counting escalation weekends, which generate a lot more prestige.

    All in all, assuming that you play three hours of PvP a day, it takes about 100 days or a little over 3 months to go from R6 to R8.

    Of course, pre-mades, making the most use of escalation weekends, can get there much faster, especially if they simply play more.
    Here's a source explaining the number. Would you like me to search the forums and find every other time this number has been used?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
    He's another thought: what about the people who don't raid much (or even at all) while the guild is learning the encounters, and then wind up getting in once it's on farm... they would almost certainly spend far less time raiding than someone would getting r8, right?
    That's possible, but again the thread was designed to discuss the timeframe for a top end player to get the gear from the release of Hammerknell and Rank 8, thus the progression of future guilds is irrelevant to the debate as put forward by the OP. As for current raiding guilds, if you're not raiding while the guild is working on progression, they wont be letting you in any time soon when they're farming either.
    Last edited by KaiHeilos; 08-24-2011 at 02:07 PM.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
    He's another thought: what about the people who don't raid much (or even at all) while the guild is learning the encounters, and then wind up getting in once it's on farm... they would almost certainly spend far less time raiding than someone would getting r8, right?
    Adding to this:

    Someone who gears out multiple toons in full HK is in a similar situation to this person; they really only have to go through the "get the content on farm" part once, and that's the bulk of the time. If this is true, then getting multiple toons Fully HK geared would be less time than getting the same number of toons r8 geared.
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  15. #120
    Rift Master KaiHeilos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
    Adding to this:

    Someone who gears out multiple toons in full HK is in a similar situation to this person; they really only have to go through the "get the content on farm" part once, and that's the bulk of the time. If this is true, then getting multiple toons Fully HK geared would be less time than getting the same number of toons r8 geared.
    I would disagree with the assumption it would be much faster, or even that it would happen any time soon. He'd need to have a second toon that's already decked out in raid gear, he'd need to have a guild that would allow him to bring his alt over just bringing another guild member, he'd also need to be the only person being changed out because if the guild brings any other new people then they have to relearn all the fights again.

    On the other hand, as soon as one toon hits r8 he can start working on the second with no restrictions.
    Last edited by KaiHeilos; 08-24-2011 at 02:18 PM.

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