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Thread: PvP Gear: More time to attain than PvE, so why the complaining?

  1. #31
    Plane Walker Odnoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landru View Post
    You must have seen it done in HK, you said you can buy the best PvE gear in the game, and that you've seen it done plenty of times. So which is it, have you been in HK raids where people bought their way in at the boss death to get drop or haven't you?
    And just to be clear, I never said at the boss death. Wanted to mention that before you try to twist my words even more.

    ALL the arguments about getting pvp gear are based on what people CAN do (afk). I am simply making an unbiased argument of what people CAN do to get pve gear. For you to deny it simply shows how biased you are.
    Last edited by Odnoc; 08-23-2011 at 05:33 PM.

  2. #32
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iHunii View Post
    /sigh.
    yes you can get to R8 if you afk WF's or run around aimlessly and loose every game. But it will take you a good 3 months atleast 4-6 hours a day .. not taking into consideration the time you get kicked and take the 12 minute penalty.
    So the worst player in the world can get full r8 in 3 months?
    It's already been shown that it would take 4 months for the best players in the world to get full HK gear, anyone see what I'm seeing here?
    Nope.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meno View Post
    You get like 20 prestige everytime a player is killed by your raid >.>. You could be afk a whole run and you'd probably make the same prestige anyway.
    Well, we report afk'ers in our pvp areas, so people do put in the effort. I haven't raided in this game but have in previous and know how tough it can be aquiring gear. It really comes down to how good your guild is at raiding, yes the lower end guilds are going to have a harder time, but the top guilds I would say is pretty compareable. I'm still working towards R6 and all I do in this game is pvp, including a TON of weekend hours to get the bonus prestige. Its by no means a gimme, yes some progress is always there, but its still a long haul. I think both are a challenge. Its tough going against R6+ when your just starting out and takes alot of persistance. Compare that to that challenge of new raiding content....both you learn how to die over and over.

  4. #34
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    Hilarious.

    Not only can PvP gear be obtained solo by practically afking in WFs, which automatically makes all your arguments useless, but it is guaranteed.

    You're not guaranteed to get any specific piece of PvE gear (except the visible pieces that you can buy with marks), because of RNG. Weapon slot items are one of the most important slots for any class, yet you are never guaranteed, as a PvE player, to get the weapon you want.

    As to why being able to obtain R8 gear solo matters, imagine if you were able to get HK relics by grinding T2 dungeons. Would anyone still raid HK?

    My guess: no, and following the logic of the path of least resistance effect, this means that obtaining gear solo <<< obtaining gear in a raid as far as difficulty and effort is concerned.

    Case closed.
    Last edited by Etadanik; 08-23-2011 at 08:24 PM.

  5. #35
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    Unless you have got some super awesome farm group going or find some bug, it will take you 600 or more hours just to get to R8.

    Enough plaques drop off each boss, with only a couple of drops, I could have a full set of HK in far less time.
    Last edited by solarbear; 08-23-2011 at 08:34 PM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    So the worst player in the world can get full r8 in 3 months?
    It's already been shown that it would take 4 months for the best players in the world to get full HK gear, anyone see what I'm seeing here?
    Yeah but you need to have the Hit or Focus, so you will still need the PVE gear.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by oothoo View Post
    i agree pvp is something anyone can do regardless of guild or skill level. it is just a time sink. raiding is also a time sink. BUT not everyone has the skills to get a raid position in a high end raiding guild. high end raiding does take time. it always will.

    what we are mostly looking at is the attainablity of items pvp vs pve at the high end. everyone can get pvp items. just some faster than others. not everyone can get high end raiding pve items because they lack the skill to do so. if you think everyone can raid and get into hammerknell before the level cap is raised then i have something for free you badly need. it is called a "clue"
    High-end raiding doesn't just take time.

    High-end raiding takes the following, none of which PvP takes:

    1. Long, continuous *blocks* of time. For example, 5-8 pm every day, 4-5 days a week for a high-end guild doing progression raiding. This places it beyond the reach of most casual gamers, who have work/school/family.

    By contrast, you can grind PvP WFs whenever you want, for however long you want. It's a very schedule-friendly way to play the game.

    2. Skill. High-end raiding, especially HK raiding, is extremely punishing in terms of mechanics. One mistake by one person can wipe an entire raid. You're never going to get into, or stay in, a high-end guild if you lack the necessary skill to do so, and this includes extra-personal factors like latency and computer speed, all of which may affect your effective skill in the game.

    By contrast, you don't need any skill to get prestige and honor in PvP. Sure, skill will get you prestige and honor faster, but lack of skill won't prevent you from getting gear, like it does in PvE.

    3. Knowledge. This goes along with skill. Knowledge - about fights, about specs, about gear - is very important in PvE because you have to maximize yourself in order to beat Rift's high-end raids, which are tuned to require maximization by each member of the raid. Again, you're never going to get into, or stay in, a high-end guild if you can't pull your weight.

    By contrast, you don't need any knowledge to get prestige and honor in PvP. Sure, knowledge will get you prestige and honor faster, but lack of knowledge won't prevent you from getting gear, like it does in PvE.

    4. Social ability. In PvE, you have to have a rudimentary amount of social ability - at the very least, the capacity to listen to your raid leader on Ventrilo and to take criticism by others when you're not doing well. No high-end guild wants someone who can't follow instructions and communicate when necessary. But this is only the basics of it. PvE also requires a few people to go far and beyond the average PvE player, to organize and lead guilds and raids. These people require a huge amount of social and organizational ability, including the ability to recruit people into a guild, to screen them, deal with the inevitable conflicts that arise in a guild, to make fair decisions when called upon to do so, and to motivate people when they're down.

    Failure to do this will result in a failed guild and/or raid.

    By contrast, in PvP you don't have to listen to anybody. It is entirely possible to rambo through a WF still get honor and prestige. In fact, that's what most people do.

    5. Opportunity. Assuming that you possess all the above, there is yet a final requirement for PvE: that there exists a high-end guild on your server of choice that actually has an opening for you. This is far from trivial, as most high-end guilds are now either full, or recruiting for only a few, specific roles. Heck, some servers don't even have high-end guilds capable of progressing in HK, in which case every person on that server is screwed out of any chance whatsoever at HK gear.

    The fact is: even if you are good at PvE and motivated, finding 19 other people who are also good at PvE and motivated is hard. Such an opportunity isn't available to everyone. In fact, judging by the number of high-end guilds, it isn't available to most PvE players.

    By contrast, in PvP you don't need any opportunity. You just need to queue, after which the game hands you honor and prestige for doing whatever the **** you want in a WF. You're doing something wrong and your allies don't like it? Too bad, it's cross-server and they can't do **** about it.

    Conclusion: high-end PvE requires so much more than PvP that it is hilarious PvPers even dare to mention the two in the same breath.
    Last edited by Etadanik; 08-23-2011 at 08:49 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meno View Post
    You get like 20 prestige everytime a player is killed by your raid >.>. You could be afk a whole run and you'd probably make the same prestige anyway.
    Prestige per WF, averaging over both wins and losses for a typical solo queuer (ignoring premades), is about 1000-3000 depending on the WF.

    Black Garden, which is the WF that takes the least amount of time, gives about 1000 prestige on average for about 10-15 minutes of PvP.

    Assuming queues are near instant, and they usually are if you play during prime time, this results in approximately 4000 prestige per hour if you account for the time it takes for the WF to actually start.

    Rank 6+ require approximately 450,000 prestige for each rank.

    This comes out to about 300 hours in total to go from R6 to R8. During this process, you'll have accumulated enough honor to buy several pieces of R8 when you actually get there.

    This is not counting escalation weekends, which generate a lot more prestige.

    All in all, assuming that you play three hours of PvP a day, it takes about 100 days or a little over 3 months to go from R6 to R8.

    Of course, pre-mades, making the most use of escalation weekends, can get there much faster, especially if they simply play more. I recall that people were running around with R8s about a week or two after R8s were released. That's not unreasonable for people who play 10-15+ hours a day primarily in pre-mades and while doing the dailies & escalation weekends.
    Last edited by Etadanik; 08-23-2011 at 09:05 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odnoc View Post
    And just to be clear, I never said at the boss death. Wanted to mention that before you try to twist my words even more.

    ALL the arguments about getting pvp gear are based on what people CAN do (afk). I am simply making an unbiased argument of what people CAN do to get pve gear. For you to deny it simply shows how biased you are.
    Rofl wut.

    Name me ONE PvE guild that is doing this for HK.

    There is NO guild with HK currently on farm status.

    Nor are guilds going to do this even with it farm status.

    Reason? Simple. Plat is useless. If you're a high-end raiding guild, you have no need for plat, because your players will be motivated enough to get their own consumables.

    You "anecdotal evidence" is worth less than your PvP gear.
    Last edited by Etadanik; 08-23-2011 at 09:13 PM.

  10. #40
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarbear View Post
    Unless you have got some super awesome farm group going or find some bug, it will take you 600 or more hours just to get to R8.

    Enough plaques drop off each boss, with only a couple of drops, I could have a full set of HK in far less time.
    Your hilarious sir.
    Quote Originally Posted by June View Post
    Many have quitted, they are lost almost half of the servers they started. I hop in next MMO for sure. Rift is awesome game but PVP is just crap.
    Lol really now?

  11. #41
    Plane Touched
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    PvE-r : Ima keep complainin' cos PvP gear is way better, sif spend anytime on PvP to get better/equal gears than what I get in PvE.

    PvE-r gets QQsmashed by PvP-er with 1000 valor + better gears in open world.

    PvE-r goes to forum for ragequit post.

    Dev leaves goodbye message stating that they understand that some people leave and wish PvE-r best of luck in future gaming. PvE-r's thread gets closed down.

    Rinse and repeat section is then created for endless arguements.

    hi2u|
    10/11 HK|

  12. #42
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    I'm almost rank 8 (will hit it in a few days) and only started at R0 about 4 weeks ago. I certainly haven't got my full set of HK gear in that time. In fact, I have 0 pieces of HK gear. And my guild has killed LGS and Alsbeth prior to HK.

    PVP is certainly easy, quick and guaranteed to get all bits of loot, even if you are incompetent. There is absolutely no comparison between PVP gear and PVE gear in terms of ease and speed.
    Last edited by Fafryd; 08-23-2011 at 10:38 PM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fafryd View Post
    I'm almost rank 8 (will hit it in a few days) and only started at R0 about 4 weeks ago. I certainly haven't got my full set of HK gear in that time. In fact, I have 0 pieces of HK gear. And my guild has killed LGS and Alsbeth prior to HK.

    PVP is certainly easy, quick and guaranteed to get all bits of loot, even if you are incompetent. There is absolutely no comparison between PVP gear and PVE gear in terms of ease and speed.
    Every raider knows that. I do both pvp and pve as well and it's obvious the ones who say pvp takes more time have never even stepped into HK. Let's not talk about having bosses on farm.

  14. #44
    Plane Walker
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    PVP players complain about PVE gear and PVE being easy mode to get gear
    PVE players complain about PVP gear and PVP being easy mode to get gear

    i think we will have to get realy worried if one side stops complaining, as that would mean the gear from their side would clearly be better or much easyer to get then the other sides

  15. #45
    Plane Walker Odnoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fafryd View Post
    I'm almost rank 8 (will hit it in a few days) and only started at R0 about 4 weeks ago. I certainly haven't got my full set of HK gear in that time. In fact, I have 0 pieces of HK gear. And my guild has killed LGS and Alsbeth prior to HK.

    PVP is certainly easy, quick and guaranteed to get all bits of loot, even if you are incompetent. There is absolutely no comparison between PVP gear and PVE gear in terms of ease and speed.
    Perhaps if you weren't spending all your time pvping...

    Oddly, I put at least 2 hours a day, at least 14 a week into pvp, and I am not even R6.
    What am I doing wrong?
    Last edited by Odnoc; 08-24-2011 at 02:09 AM.

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