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Thread: Put the nerfs, and the QQing.. on hold for just one second!...

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Veiny's Avatar
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    Default Put the nerfs, and the QQing.. on hold for just one second!...

    I have read a lot of these posts... they are "nerf this, nerft that, warriors are OP, clerics are OP etc"

    I bet the team at Trion are going insane by now?
    Their aim is to make this game fun and playable for everyone, so that it can keep producing, so they can feed their own families.

    No one is ever going to be happy are they?
    People will leave because they believe that other classes are OP, and others will leave because of whiners that can't play their class properly took advantage of Trion to nerf the "OP" character to the ground.
    I am not saying that constructive criticism is a bad thing, it's not.
    i am saying that before you accuse other classes of being OP you should take a look at how you are playing your own class, or take a look at the helping hands around those OP classes (such as healers, AoEs etc).
    Everyone who plasys MMOs all have different skill levels. I am a warrior and i die.. and i can say a lot of the time. This is due to the fact that i am only p2, and i am newish to gaming.. So what? i don't complain to Trion about how a rogue used his dirty tricks on me in a WF 5 mins ago and i died horribly.. NERF
    I don't complain about how this warrior in front of me was being healed by this OP celric, i could barely tickle him... NERF
    I don't complain about how OP mages AoEs are, or the fact i sometimes have difficulty catching up to them when bullrush is on its cd, or that (level 50 chat) "zomg, my stormcaller just crit for 4k"... NERF.

    No ... i want to learn to play my class just like everyone else should.. even if it does mean that i die a lot of the time. I believe that when i am faced with challenges like the above, it makes me a better gamer, because i understand more about other classes, about how to counter, when to use abilities at the appropriate times.
    I know that i am a warrior, i am suppsoed to be at the brunt, and take the damage, do some of my own damage too.. that is why i wear plate, have a couple of ccs, a burst or 2.
    But when i see a mage, in range.. trying to cast at me, 5m away.. i know i would play that character differently. Why roll a mage if you try to cast damage 5m away? why not.. cc, run to a rock, and cast your 4k ability while the warrior is helpessly running for you... bye bye 2/3 of the warriors health.

    The problem is not with any class being OP, though it is good to balance...
    but when my Champion is now only critting for 1.2k MAX compared to your stormcaller who had crit for 4k... i am not sure why you are still complaining that warriors are STILL OP?

    I believe that all people care about is being the best, or being skilled at least.
    To be skilled you need to kill other players most of the time.. right?
    if you can't kill other players, or they kill you, you complain to Trion about them being OP and that they need a nerf. grats you got your wish.. are you happy with the 3k crit difference now?.. obviously not STILL.

    To be skilled, you need to know how to play your character. You need to know how they work, their strengths, weaknesses. You need to know when to use their abilities and what abilites are the best to use in certain situations. To be skilled, or lets just say a wise gamer you need to accept the fact that there will always be other players that will know how to counter you and that yes.. you may die... and that is ok.

    This game will end up going downhill all because people are screaming for nerfs. What is Trion going to do? answer to your wishes because they want their game to be a product that can sell, and fair enough.
    I just don't understand why MOST of you whiners can't take a look at the way you are playing your class, and realise that if you are dying most of the time, it is probably due to the fact you can't play your class very well and you should keep practicing so you can become more skilled with your character.. also the other big issue is, realise that in level 50 pvp THERE IS RANK 1-8s and of course ranks that are higher that you are going to stomp you.

    I just want to say Trion... i appreciate all the hard work you have put in to make this game playable, i can tell that you are bending over backwards to make it work for everyone.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Gualtiero's Avatar
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    It takes to long to clear trash and the boss is too hard! Nerf the whole raid!
    The dude playing that warrior is better than me! Nerf his whole class!
    The OP types the truth! Nerf his keyboard!

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    Champion TheBidnis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gualtiero View Post
    it takes to long to clear trash and the boss is too hard! Nerf the whole raid!
    The dude playing that warrior is better than me! Nerf his whole class!
    The op types the truth! nerf his keyboard!
    nerf his keyboard!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzlebox View Post
    if i can't be happy no one can be happy!!!!!!!1111
    Quote Originally Posted by Gualtiero View Post
    It takes to long to clear trash and the boss is too hard! Nerf the whole raid!
    The dude playing that warrior is better than me! Nerf his whole class!
    The OP types the truth! Nerf his keyboard!
    Ladyfae Def Cleric R40 Bidnis Def Warrior R19 Shortdawg Guard Rogue R7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veiny View Post
    I have read a lot of these posts... they are "nerf this, nerft that, warriors are OP, clerics are OP etc"

    I bet the team at Trion are going insane by now?
    Their aim is to make this game fun and playable for everyone, so that it can keep producing, so they can feed their own families.

    No one is ever going to be happy are they?
    People will leave because they believe that other classes are OP, and others will leave because of whiners that can't play their class properly took advantage of Trion to nerf the "OP" character to the ground.
    I am not saying that constructive criticism is a bad thing, it's not.
    i am saying that before you accuse other classes of being OP you should take a look at how you are playing your own class, or take a look at the helping hands around those OP classes (such as healers, AoEs etc).
    Everyone who plasys MMOs all have different skill levels. I am a warrior and i die.. and i can say a lot of the time. This is due to the fact that i am only p2, and i am newish to gaming.. So what? i don't complain to Trion about how a rogue used his dirty tricks on me in a WF 5 mins ago and i died horribly.. NERF
    I don't complain about how this warrior in front of me was being healed by this OP celric, i could barely tickle him... NERF
    I don't complain about how OP mages AoEs are, or the fact i sometimes have difficulty catching up to them when bullrush is on its cd, or that (level 50 chat) "zomg, my stormcaller just crit for 4k"... NERF.

    No ... i want to learn to play my class just like everyone else should.. even if it does mean that i die a lot of the time. I believe that when i am faced with challenges like the above, it makes me a better gamer, because i understand more about other classes, about how to counter, when to use abilities at the appropriate times.
    I know that i am a warrior, i am suppsoed to be at the brunt, and take the damage, do some of my own damage too.. that is why i wear plate, have a couple of ccs, a burst or 2.
    But when i see a mage, in range.. trying to cast at me, 5m away.. i know i would play that character differently. Why roll a mage if you try to cast damage 5m away? why not.. cc, run to a rock, and cast your 4k ability while the warrior is helpessly running for you... bye bye 2/3 of the warriors health.

    The problem is not with any class being OP, though it is good to balance...
    but when my Champion is now only critting for 1.2k MAX compared to your stormcaller who had crit for 4k... i am not sure why you are still complaining that warriors are STILL OP?

    I believe that all people care about is being the best, or being skilled at least.
    To be skilled you need to kill other players most of the time.. right?
    if you can't kill other players, or they kill you, you complain to Trion about them being OP and that they need a nerf. grats you got your wish.. are you happy with the 3k crit difference now?.. obviously not STILL.

    To be skilled, you need to know how to play your character. You need to know how they work, their strengths, weaknesses. You need to know when to use their abilities and what abilites are the best to use in certain situations. To be skilled, or lets just say a wise gamer you need to accept the fact that there will always be other players that will know how to counter you and that yes.. you may die... and that is ok.

    This game will end up going downhill all because people are screaming for nerfs. What is Trion going to do? answer to your wishes because they want their game to be a product that can sell, and fair enough.
    I just don't understand why MOST of you whiners can't take a look at the way you are playing your class, and realise that if you are dying most of the time, it is probably due to the fact you can't play your class very well and you should keep practicing so you can become more skilled with your character.. also the other big issue is, realise that in level 50 pvp THERE IS RANK 1-8s and of course ranks that are higher that you are going to stomp you.

    I just want to say Trion... i appreciate all the hard work you have put in to make this game playable, i can tell that you are bending over backwards to make it work for everyone.
    i agree just stop QQing and let trion take care of it. It takes time.

  5. #5
    Plane Walker Rakkasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veiny View Post
    I have read a lot of these posts... they are "nerf this, nerft that, warriors are OP, clerics are OP etc"

    I bet the team at Trion are going insane by now?
    Their aim is to make this game fun and playable for everyone, so that it can keep producing, so they can feed their own families.

    No one is ever going to be happy are they?
    product that can sell, and fair enough.
    I just don't understand why MOST of you whiners can't take a look at the way you are playing your class, and realise that if you are dying most of the time, it is probably due to the fact you can't play your class very well and you should keep practicing so you can become more skilled with your character.. also the other big issue is, realise that in level 50 pvp THERE IS RANK 1-8s and of course ranks that are higher that you are going to stomp you.

    I just want to say Trion... i appreciate all the hard work you have put in to make this game playable, i can tell that you are bending over backwards to make it work for everyone.

    I find myself hoping that Trion doesn't listen to the player base at all, especially via the forums. The only exception is mega threads that all trend in a specific direction - they should be considered.

    IMHO the only way to keep a game like this from getting ridiculously easy trying to accommodate the LCD is to be very data oriented.

    There's no reason that can't data mine everything necessary to make intelligent design and direction decisions.

    Are warriors OP? - determine what damage threshold and survivability you expect for the class at each rank and then look at data generated in warfronts to determine if it's outside the expected controls - then tweak it. Under no circumstances should the input of players be considered beyond a decision to put more resources into a data driven evaluation.

    Are there too many rifts and invasions? - What's the design goal, what is the playing experience that you want to create - not "the invasions and rifts get in MY way when I'm questing - reduce them". I'd like it to get more intense, a real feeling of a world under assault, not Sunnyvale with an occasional thunderstorm.

    Anyway, I see it go back in forth on this forum and others and I really hope they're giving player forum comments about .01% of their attention (except tech support).
    Last edited by Rakkasa; 08-22-2011 at 09:45 PM.

  6. #6
    Ascendant VirusDancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veiny View Post
    I have read a lot of these posts... they are "nerf this, nerft that, warriors are OP, clerics are OP etc"
    If you weed out some of the melodrama, there are obvious issues that need to be resolved.

    No one is ever going to be happy are they?
    Once again, if you weed out the obviously bogus threads - if Trion were actually to address some of the issues, fix things that are broken, etc, etc - some people might actually be happy.

    People will leave because they believe that other classes are OP, and others will leave because of whiners that can't play their class properly took advantage of Trion to nerf the "OP" character to the ground.
    People will do what people will do. They might leave for a myriad of reasons. If they leave because of something that is a problem, well - that is on Trion. For all the rest, that is on the person leaving.

    I am not saying that constructive criticism is a bad thing, it's not.
    The time for constructive criticism has come and gone... it is ignored. It's better to whine about monkeys having too many bananas, in the hopes that making that complaint will somehow result in Escape Artist working against Battlefield Intimidation. Because pointing out that it does not directly has been useless.

    There are many such broken issues in the game. It has become pointless to complain about them.

    Personally, I prefer to complain about microDwarves. They need to nerf Dwarves by buffing their height, am I right?

    i am saying that before you accuse other classes of being OP you should take a look at how you are playing your own class, or take a look at the helping hands around those OP classes (such as healers, AoEs etc).
    When the Souls are not balanced within the Callings, obviously the Callings are not going to be balanced against each other. Look at the PvE side, outside of running around and monster farming - you're pigeonholed - the same goes for PvP. The illusion of choice offered by the Ascended Class System is just that: an illusion.

    Everyone who plasys MMOs all have different skill levels. I am a warrior and i die.. and i can say a lot of the time. This is due to the fact that i am only p2, and i am newish to gaming.. So what? i don't complain to Trion about how a rogue used his dirty tricks on me in a WF 5 mins ago and i died horribly.. NERF
    I don't complain about how this warrior in front of me was being healed by this OP celric, i could barely tickle him... NERF
    I don't complain about how OP mages AoEs are, or the fact i sometimes have difficulty catching up to them when bullrush is on its cd, or that (level 50 chat) "zomg, my stormcaller just crit for 4k"... NERF.
    Skill is obviously going to vary. That does not change the simple fact that the game is woefully imbalanced and broken. It does mean that there are a Hell of a lot more complaints when people are faced with those issues though...

    No ... i want to learn to play my class just like everyone else should.. even if it does mean that i die a lot of the time. I believe that when i am faced with challenges like the above, it makes me a better gamer, because i understand more about other classes, about how to counter, when to use abilities at the appropriate times.
    I know that i am a warrior, i am suppsoed to be at the brunt, and take the damage, do some of my own damage too.. that is why i wear plate, have a couple of ccs, a burst or 2.
    It sounds like you need a different spec...ahem, lol.

    But when i see a mage, in range.. trying to cast at me, 5m away.. i know i would play that character differently. Why roll a mage if you try to cast damage 5m away? why not.. cc, run to a rock, and cast your 4k ability while the warrior is helpessly running for you... bye bye 2/3 of the warriors health.
    Um, the base runspeed in the game is 5 m/s. If a Mage starts casting a 2s spell on a target as soon as they hit 30m, odds are they will be in gap closing distance by the time the spell finishes. Outside of certain builds (again, limited viability of the Souls) - most Mages are going to have to stand toe to toe against the melee DPS. It's not how you would expect to play the Mage of course, but based on the mechanics of the game - that is what happens.

    The problem is not with any class being OP, though it is good to balance...
    but when my Champion is now only critting for 1.2k MAX compared to your stormcaller who had crit for 4k... i am not sure why you are still complaining that warriors are STILL OP?
    You said you are R2, right? Are you comparing your damage against a R8 while comparing that R8's damage to you? I mean, why would you even bother making such a comparison? Why would you ask the question that you did based on such a thing?

    I'm going to stop right here... sorry, not going to bother with the rest. Because if this is along the lines of the basis for most of what you've said or are trying to say... well, you really don't know what you're talking about then... sorry.
    Kincayd (1)* - Omeki (1) - Comma (2) - Bugeisha (2) - Malphesiel (3)
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  7. #7
    Rift Disciple Veiny's Avatar
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    in response to the above...

    Man that must of took a bit of your time?
    This thread was not aimed about REAL issues that need to be addressed..
    it was about whiners.. the people who keep screaming for warrior nerfs.
    It is not the fact that warriors shouldn't have been nerfed in the first place.. its the fact that after several nerfs, souls that can hit for 4k, are still demanding warrior nerfs.
    And yea.. warrior is about being at the brunt, and taking the front and backline damage, and we are supposed to defend ourselves too.
    It is ok to see if something feels imbalanced.. but this thread is stating that people should look at their own callings first, and work out different ways to counter etc... BEFORE they go automatically accusing warriors of being op.
    Rank 2.... no i was meaning in general, througout my whole gameplay, and with classes close to my rank.. rank 8 or w/e goes without saying, if you didn't read what was at the bottom of the thread.
    I think you misunderstood what i was trying to say, which would have been bad on my part not making myself more clear.

    Point is: People need to analyse every aspect of how and what they are playing before assuming it is to do with another class being OP and needing a nerf.. hence the fact that i stated there is a range of skill in mmos.

    I think you are just looking for a dramatic response?

  8. #8
    Champion of Telara Nnnxia's Avatar
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    OP is a warrior, enuff said.

  9. #9
    Banned Bunzy's Avatar
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    Tbh Trion needs the community to post about things they don't like or else they won't know whats balanced and what to fix. They don't play the game as much as we do. If enough people are posting the same thing obviously its a problem in the community.

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    Plane Touched NzFox's Avatar
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    @OP you sir (or Ma'am) just won the Internets for the day..have a cold one
    Last edited by NzFox; 08-22-2011 at 11:08 PM.

  11. #11
    Champion of Telara Nnnxia's Avatar
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    But what happens when you reach the end of the journey and realize that some classes are simply much more OP than yours?

    When you have mastered all of the ultimate soul combinations, gotten all of the ultimate gear and know the entire ins and outs of that class but are simply unable to perform due to class imbalances?

    What do you do then?

  12. #12
    Plane Walker Rakkasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnnxia View Post
    But what happens when you reach the end of the journey and realize that some classes are simply much more OP than yours?

    When you have mastered all of the ultimate soul combinations, gotten all of the ultimate gear and know the entire ins and outs of that class but are simply unable to perform due to class imbalances?

    What do you do then?

    What does "perform" mean to you?

    Does it mean that you are an unstoppable killing machine that can solo a group of 20, take and hold the codex while you laugh in the other team's face and your team rage quits because they're bored?

    Does it mean you're at the top of the damage column, the healing column, the killing blows column, the healing/damage taken, the favor column?

    Does it mean you never die?

    I've never been at the top of killing blows or damage, but I don't think it means I haven't performed. I'm only R4 and get crushed regularly by higher ranks of every class, but I'm not sitting there going "they're freaking OP! and they need to fix the gear imbalance!!!". I just rez, buff and plunge back into the fray.

    I die a lot, but that's just part of the deal in this kind of setting, and it's not like sitting at the spawn point for less than 30 or 10 seconds is horrible.

    I rate performing by whether or not I was able to help my team get back the codex, by whether or not I was able to help stop the other team from killing our boss in Scion, getting their carrier or protecting our carrier in the garden. Most of all I think I preformed if, after a 10 minute non stop effects flying epic battle on the bridge in Scion, I'm laughing and going "omg, that was freaking epic".

    I hate Whitefall in both modes and it seems to be the basis of a lot the PvP rage, but that's me.

    Performing = Contributing and Performing = Having Fun, if you're not contributing as a maxed out R8 and /or having fun it's not because any other class is OP, it's because of how you're choosing to play and your attitude.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Veiny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnnxia View Post
    But what happens when you reach the end of the journey and realize that some classes are simply much more OP than yours?

    When you have mastered all of the ultimate soul combinations, gotten all of the ultimate gear and know the entire ins and outs of that class but are simply unable to perform due to class imbalances?

    What do you do then?
    That is when you can call it OP

    this is just aimed at people who keep complaining after my finishes only do 800 damage.

    I don't care that they asked for nerfs before, but any less than 800 damage.. is how much i could hit for IRL.
    Maybe they do need a cc nerf? as i have seen someone ask for in the warrior thread.. or maybe mages should get a buff and not have a cast time on there own?
    that seems more positive?

  14. #14
    Plane Walker Rakkasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunzy View Post
    Tbh Trion needs the community to post about things they don't like or else they won't know whats balanced and what to fix. They don't play the game as much as we do. If enough people are posting the same thing obviously its a problem in the community.
    I disagree, it's a problem with the small percentage of the player base that posts on the forums.

    Mega threads, sure, read them and evaluate them.

    The self interested "I think it should be this way because of the way it effects ME" - ignore them and spend your time evaluating in-game data related to all aspects of user behavior.

    McDonalds executives don't have to eat their hamburgers to know whether or not people are eating them and they don't have to listen to the guy that doesn't like pickles if a billion other people are fine with them.

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    Ascendant VirusDancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veiny View Post
    in response to the above...

    Man that must of took a bit of your time?
    Not really. I'm a pretty fast typer.

    This thread was not aimed about REAL issues that need to be addressed..
    it was about whiners.. the people who keep screaming for warrior nerfs.
    Somebody feels Warriors (particular builds) are OP. You disagree. Your disagreement does not negate their argument. It simply means you disagree. You label them as whiners. It is not much of an argument against what they are saying. QQ is typically used by people that have no real argument against the argument being made. You can just picture them sticking their fingers in their ears and going LaLaLaLa... but with QQqqQQqq instead.

    It is not the fact that warriors shouldn't have been nerfed in the first place.. its the fact that after several nerfs, souls that can hit for 4k, are still demanding warrior nerfs.
    Again - you're comparing your damage as a R2 to that of a R8. Do you know how much damage Burst does from a R2 SC? Do you know how much damage you could do with a decent build at R8 as a Warrior?

    So again, you're argument does not matter - you're not comparing like items in the least. As a R6 Mage, my Burst is critting in the 2-3k range. Yep, depending on the Valor of the target - it does different damage. It does not kill anybody unless they're already more than halfway dead. It is a 2s cast on an 8s CD. If a Warrior lands on me... I'm dead. Does not take 8s to kill me.

    Again, get some experience in WFs - get all four Callings to 50. Play all the popular builds - play all of your own quirky builds - pay attention to logs, what is going on in WFs - etc... then make a statement about certain things.

    And yea.. warrior is about being at the brunt, and taking the front and backline damage, and we are supposed to defend ourselves too.
    This is Trion's base description for a Warrior: http://www.riftgame.com/en/classes/warrior/

    It has nothing to do with the Warriors in the game at this point.

    It is ok to see if something feels imbalanced.. but this thread is stating that people should look at their own callings first, and work out different ways to counter etc... BEFORE they go automatically accusing warriors of being op.
    Likewise, you should play all the other Callings before stating that they are not, eh?

    Rank 2.... no i was meaning in general, througout my whole gameplay, and with classes close to my rank.. rank 8 or w/e goes without saying, if you didn't read what was at the bottom of the thread.
    I think you misunderstood what i was trying to say, which would have been bad on my part not making myself more clear.
    It was extremely difficult to go beyond the point you were making where I stopped.

    Point is: People need to analyse every aspect of how and what they are playing before assuming it is to do with another class being OP and needing a nerf.. hence the fact that i stated there is a range of skill in mmos.

    I think you are just looking for a dramatic response?
    Not really, not in the least. I simply dislike posts from people that believe they know what is going on when obviously they do not know what is going on. I despise the term QQ. It is foolhardy and dismissive - often when the person wants to deny the truth or is oblivious to the truth.

    No doubt there are some mind boggling actual "QQ" posts here on the forums. The vast majority of posts that end up being labeled as QQ have some truth to them.

    Look at what you get for 17 pts in Champion. Forget comparing what you get for 17 pts in any of the Souls in the other Callings. Look at what you get for 17 pts in Champion compared to 17 pts in any of the other Warrior Souls. Not very balanced, eh? Within those 17 pts, you have the vast majority of the complaints about the Warrior Calling...

    I don't Raid. I don't even do Dungeons. I do WFs. If I'm farming mats or doing dailies, I'm queued for WFs while doing them. If I'm leveling an alt, I'm queued for WFs while doing them.

    I seriously believe that Trion needs to go back to the drawing board in regard to the Ascended Class System. Souls within Callings are not balanced much less looking at the Callings against each other. There are many abilities that are broken - do not function as noted, interact incorrectly, scale wrong, etc, etc, etc. There are combat mechanics where it does not appear that the left hand had any clue whatsoever what the right hand was doing.

    They do not need to balance every possible build against every possible build. They do need to balance the Souls against a base template - so that with the combination of abilities (offensive, defensive, support, healing) each Soul is balanced. They need to make sure that each ability functions as they intend it to function.

    Were they to do this, then they could do any minor tweaking that was required...

    ...but if they were to do something like this, then whatever would we argue about on the forums?

    My money would be on microDwarves...
    Kincayd (1)* - Omeki (1) - Comma (2) - Bugeisha (2) - Malphesiel (3)
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