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Thread: Put the nerfs, and the QQing.. on hold for just one second!...

  1. #16
    Ascendant VirusDancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakkasa View Post
    I disagree, it's a problem with the small percentage of the player base that posts on the forums.

    Mega threads, sure, read them and evaluate them.

    The self interested "I think it should be this way because of the way it effects ME" - ignore them and spend your time evaluating in-game data related to all aspects of user behavior.

    McDonalds executives don't have to eat their hamburgers to know whether or not people are eating them and they don't have to listen to the guy that doesn't like pickles if a billion other people are fine with them.
    The thing is - there are very few "ME" threads out there. Oh, you might see what appear to be hundreds of "ME" threads... but when the vast majority of those "ME" threads are about the same thing, well - they're not "ME" threads are they?
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  2. #17
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    They could make an ingame poll, on the side of the feedback option!

  3. #18
    Ascendant VirusDancer's Avatar
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    So I'm going to go back and finish reading through the original post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Veiny View Post
    I believe that all people care about is being the best, or being skilled at least.
    Perhaps it is a case that they care about having fun. Having fun does not mean that you're the best. It does not mean winning all the time. You win some, you lose some - it's all good as long as you're having fun.

    To be skilled you need to kill other players most of the time.. right?
    It depends on what particular build you're playing. It's not all about killing.

    if you can't kill other players, or they kill you, you complain to Trion about them being OP and that they need a nerf. grats you got your wish.. are you happy with the 3k crit difference now?.. obviously not STILL.
    Again, you're attempting to compare apples and oranges. Compare the damage between the Warrior and the Mage at equal Rank, equal level of gearing. What's the point of comparing the damage between two obviously different levels of gear?

    To be skilled, you need to know how to play your character. You need to know how they work, their strengths, weaknesses. You need to know when to use their abilities and what abilites are the best to use in certain situations. To be skilled, or lets just say a wise gamer you need to accept the fact that there will always be other players that will know how to counter you and that yes.. you may die... and that is ok.
    It is one thing to lose to a player that outgears you. It is one thing to lose to a player that outplays you. It is even one thing to lose to a player that is sporting a spec built purposely to counter your build. It is another thing entirely to lose because of design faults in the game.

    This game will end up going downhill all because people are screaming for nerfs. What is Trion going to do? answer to your wishes because they want their game to be a product that can sell, and fair enough.
    I just don't understand why MOST of you whiners can't take a look at the way you are playing your class, and realise that if you are dying most of the time, it is probably due to the fact you can't play your class very well and you should keep practicing so you can become more skilled with your character..
    Again, labeling people as whiners because they believe something different than you do is not really much of a counter to their complaints. In your own post here, one could say that you have whined and QQ'd about the damage you can do compared to somebody else. Obviously, you'll say that you have neither whined nor QQ'd... but how is what you said any different in that regard, eh?

    also the other big issue is, realise that in level 50 pvp THERE IS RANK 1-8s and of course ranks that are higher that you are going to stomp you.
    Which again is a constant complaint that Trion ignores...

    I just want to say Trion... i appreciate all the hard work you have put in to make this game playable, i can tell that you are bending over backwards to make it work for everyone.
    I do not see that. I do not see that in the least. Did you participate in the betas, by any chance? Not the last one - but those leading up to it? That is the Trion that I appreciated. Quick to address issues. Tweaking instead of random buffing/nerfing. Great communication with the community. That is what sold me on the game.

    Ever since the headstart, I've regretted my decision to play. I'm still here until my sub runs out...and in the interim, I'm hoping the guys from the beta come back from their well deserved vacation and fix the mess that that the guys that took over with the headstart have gotten us into...
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  4. #19
    Rift Chaser Sorreah's Avatar
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    Oh it's this thread again. Warriors are perfectly balanced. Of course they are. You being a warrior has NO possible impact on such a declaration.

    VirusDancer states it well enough. So I'll leave it to him!
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  5. #20
    Rift Disciple Veiny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirusDancer View Post
    Not really. I'm a pretty fast typer.



    Somebody feels Warriors (particular builds) are OP. You disagree. Your disagreement does not negate their argument. It simply means you disagree. You label them as whiners. It is not much of an argument against what they are saying. QQ is typically used by people that have no real argument against the argument being made. You can just picture them sticking their fingers in their ears and going LaLaLaLa... but with QQqqQQqq instead.



    Again - you're comparing your damage as a R2 to that of a R8. Do you know how much damage Burst does from a R2 SC? Do you know how much damage you could do with a decent build at R8 as a Warrior?

    So again, you're argument does not matter - you're not comparing like items in the least. As a R6 Mage, my Burst is critting in the 2-3k range. Yep, depending on the Valor of the target - it does different damage. It does not kill anybody unless they're already more than halfway dead. It is a 2s cast on an 8s CD. If a Warrior lands on me... I'm dead. Does not take 8s to kill me.

    Again, get some experience in WFs - get all four Callings to 50. Play all the popular builds - play all of your own quirky builds - pay attention to logs, what is going on in WFs - etc... then make a statement about certain things.



    This is Trion's base description for a Warrior: http://www.riftgame.com/en/classes/warrior/

    It has nothing to do with the Warriors in the game at this point.



    Likewise, you should play all the other Callings before stating that they are not, eh?



    It was extremely difficult to go beyond the point you were making where I stopped.



    Not really, not in the least. I simply dislike posts from people that believe they know what is going on when obviously they do not know what is going on. I despise the term QQ. It is foolhardy and dismissive - often when the person wants to deny the truth or is oblivious to the truth.

    No doubt there are some mind boggling actual "QQ" posts here on the forums. The vast majority of posts that end up being labeled as QQ have some truth to them.

    Look at what you get for 17 pts in Champion. Forget comparing what you get for 17 pts in any of the Souls in the other Callings. Look at what you get for 17 pts in Champion compared to 17 pts in any of the other Warrior Souls. Not very balanced, eh? Within those 17 pts, you have the vast majority of the complaints about the Warrior Calling...

    I don't Raid. I don't even do Dungeons. I do WFs. If I'm farming mats or doing dailies, I'm queued for WFs while doing them. If I'm leveling an alt, I'm queued for WFs while doing them.

    I seriously believe that Trion needs to go back to the drawing board in regard to the Ascended Class System. Souls within Callings are not balanced much less looking at the Callings against each other. There are many abilities that are broken - do not function as noted, interact incorrectly, scale wrong, etc, etc, etc. There are combat mechanics where it does not appear that the left hand had any clue whatsoever what the right hand was doing.

    They do not need to balance every possible build against every possible build. They do need to balance the Souls against a base template - so that with the combination of abilities (offensive, defensive, support, healing) each Soul is balanced. They need to make sure that each ability functions as they intend it to function.

    Were they to do this, then they could do any minor tweaking that was required...

    ...but if they were to do something like this, then whatever would we argue about on the forums?

    My money would be on microDwarves...
    Jesus dude.. you must be really keen to get your opposing view across right down to the nitty gritty.
    I mean theres no problem with that, but i'm not really a novel reader, and it is 8am..
    about thw warriors.. i read the description and i pulled out this "Front-line combatants without peer, Warriors reliably make up the core of any fighting force" which is what i was explianing, but in an 19 yo females way who left school too early.
    About the r2 and the r8 thing... i never said this SC was a rank 8.. i said i heard it from level 50 chat, now they could be lying, they could be telling the truth, only they would know.. but i have heard it many of times coming from chat, people generally critting from 3-5k. Even in 40 chat a few were saying they were critting for 2.5k. I do half that at level 50.
    I don't mind that i do, i do admit that before when i could crit for 2.7k that was OP and did need a nerf.. but the fact that my damage has been cut in half and they are still complaining. the point i am making is that the people who are still complaining, wanting another nerf should take a look at how they are playing before they go making assumptions that it must still be the warrior.
    Maybe our ccs do need a nerf.. or maybe people could just ask for a buff with their own ccs if most are having trouble getting away?
    I do know what i am talking about, that is why i wrote this post :P
    Well i do have a mage, she is not 50 or anything, but i get the jist of playing her.
    and my partner has a 44 rogue. He has no trouble with warriors.

    I am not labeling them all as whiners... just the ones who say "warriors need more nerfs"

    I do agree with you that the warrior souls need a massive revamp, a good look over.
    No i wasn't there for Beta, i can still tell that they are putting in hard work though.
    You tell me what it is like being a game developer? i mean i wouldn't have a clue.. but they wouldn't purposefully ignore people. That would be disrespectful to their customers.
    These forums just keep filling up with negativity about "nerf this, nerf, nerf".
    demanding like a child wanting an ice cream.
    The mother is not just going to straight away answer to the demand. And if she does, it will just be a kiddie cone cause she needs to be kind on her bank account too.
    But what does the child do "MORE, MORE, MORE"
    peoples opinions about warriors are their own, yes, and peoples feelings can never be wrong.
    I am just wondering if you are a male or female.
    If you are a male i can see why you have taken my post the wrong way. It may not have been explained on the single track, to the point etc.

    I will just then say one more time.
    This post is about people who still keep DEMANDING warrior nerfs, after there have been several warrior nerfs. I think that because of the CONSTANT demands of warrior nerfs it comes across as people being greedy, or that they are bad at playing their class. If they are they should address this first before demanding more nerfs because it is GREEDY people who will ruin the game.
    Yes people leave for their own reasons for leaving the game, and those are just 2 examples that i stated

  6. #21
    Champion Auden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirusDancer View Post


    I do not see that. I do not see that in the least. Did you participate in the betas, by any chance? Not the last one - but those leading up to it? That is the Trion that I appreciated. Quick to address issues. Tweaking instead of random buffing/nerfing. Great communication with the community. That is what sold me on the game.

    Ever since the headstart, I've regretted my decision to play. I'm still here until my sub runs out...and in the interim, I'm hoping the guys from the beta come back from their well deserved vacation and fix the mess that that the guys that took over with the headstart have gotten us into...
    Great. Another guy who thinks he knows more about the game than the developers.

    You mean to say when they where actively tweaking the game to release it (beta), changes where quick and well announced?!!@!!! NO WAY MAN.

    Live does not equal beta. There are far more many players on live than ever in beta.. so Trion will im sure investigate an issue, but not just because you cry about it.. (tho whines from the mage class im sure are ignored.. because they cry about everything).


    So quit then if you dont like it.

  7. #22
    Champion of Telara Nnnxia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veiny View Post
    I will just then say one more time.
    This post is about people who still keep DEMANDING warrior nerfs, after there have been several warrior nerfs. I think that because of the CONSTANT demands of warrior nerfs it comes across as people being greedy, or that they are bad at playing their class. If they are they should address this first before demanding more nerfs because it is GREEDY people who will ruin the game.
    Yes people leave for their own reasons for leaving the game, and those are just 2 examples that i stated
    The problem is two pronged: that warrior trees are so heavily imbalanced towards PvP and that Trion has failed time and again to address the true fundamental problems with the class at each nerf-patch.

    This results in a constant stream of warrior nerfs, which new, young and aspiring warrior players such as yourself are crying against.

    However these child-lings are unable to fathom the entire holistic picture of PvP as a whole and thus their cries are thrown into the mix, diluting the opinions and facts which are more relevant to the issue.

    As you are doing now.

  8. #23
    Rift Disciple Veiny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnnxia View Post
    The problem is two pronged: that warrior trees are so heavily imbalanced towards PvP and that Trion has failed time and again to address the true fundamental problems with the class at each nerf-patch.

    This results in a constant stream of warrior nerfs, which new, young and aspiring warrior players such as yourself are crying against.

    However these child-lings are unable to fathom the entire holistic picture of PvP as a whole and thus their cries are thrown into the mix, diluting the opinions and facts which are more relevant to the issue.

    As you are doing now.

    Which is why nerfs (or buffs) are not necessary.
    They need to go back to the drawing board for warriors and evaluate it from root to tip?
    compare it to the others and decide what to do from there.

    I am not crying against nerfs at all. Feel free to nerf my guy if he is OP.
    Just "before you accuse me, take a look at yourself"
    parachamp is not OP

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnnxia View Post
    The problem is two pronged: that warrior trees are so heavily imbalanced towards PvP and that Trion has failed time and again to address the true fundamental problems with the class at each nerf-patch.

    This results in a constant stream of warrior nerfs, which new, young and aspiring warrior players such as yourself are crying against.

    However these child-lings are unable to fathom the entire holistic picture of PvP as a whole and thus their cries are thrown into the mix, diluting the opinions and facts which are more relevant to the issue.

    As you are doing now.
    Warriors are capable of much more damage than what you usually see out there. We trade dps skills for some semblance of CC/survivability/support.

    Be careful for what you wish for.


    edit: Looks like you are the one that cannot "fathom the entire holistic picture of PvP as a whole" (captain redundant there lol). Go ahead and examine the popular pvp builds on our class forums (again the best community is the warrior boards, look at see), and find out exactly what the class brings to the table vs mages, rogues and clerics..

    then maybe you will reach pvp zen.


    But probably not.
    Last edited by Auden; 08-23-2011 at 12:59 PM.

  10. #25
    Rift Disciple Veiny's Avatar
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    hmm actually no..
    ok lets nerfs them more.

    make it that my fear take 3 seconds, and reduce the duration of the ability by 4 seconds. like everyone is asking for.
    make it that warriors do half of the damage that rogues do like everyone is asking for.
    make it that my bullrush is on CD for 20 seconds more, and take away his snare cause mages have trouble getting away (cause their breakfree must be on CD)
    reduce the breakfree for mages so that warriors can hardly catch up to us.
    Insta win...
    thats cool, i will still play my parachamp (not being sarcastic) i got him level 50, whats the point in wasting him?

    You tell me what you would like to see happen to warriors?

  11. #26
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    The only thing Trion developers need to do is play the game on live servers, the way everyone else does. Then, they won't need to look at the QQ threads to see what needs to be done. It will become very clear, very quickly.

  12. #27
    Rift Disciple Veiny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geistcreeper View Post
    The only thing Trion developers need to do is play the game on live servers, the way everyone else does. Then, they won't need to look at the QQ threads to see what needs to be done. It will become very clear, very quickly.
    They could do that or as the other guy said they can collect all the warfront summeries.. work out the average of all the classes damage, compare it to the other classes.
    Do the same with the deaths, the KB etc

    then they will have their asnwer

  13. #28
    Champion of Telara Nnnxia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auden View Post
    Warriors are capable of much more damage than what you usually see out there. We trade dps skills for some semblance of CC/survivability/support.

    Be careful for what you wish for.


    edit: Looks like you are the one that cannot "fathom the entire holistic picture of PvP as a whole" (captain redundant there lol). Go ahead and examine the popular pvp builds on our class forums (again the best community is the warrior boards, look at see), and find out exactly what the class brings to the table vs mages, rogues and clerics..

    then maybe you will reach pvp zen.


    But probably not.
    Oh I am a rogue.

    edit: looks like you are captain redundant now.
    Last edited by Nnnxia; 08-23-2011 at 02:02 PM.

  14. #29
    Champion of Telara Nnnxia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veiny View Post
    They could do that or as the other guy said they can collect all the warfront summeries.. work out the average of all the classes damage, compare it to the other classes.
    Do the same with the deaths, the KB etc

    then they will have their asnwer
    You say it so simply but it is much more complicated than that.

    There are hundreds of factors coming into play and using such a simple algorithm would be naive, futile and ultimately not representative of what is actually going on.

    Eg. Heal debuffs, subdue specs, armor debuffs, spotters orders, gap closers, cc, immunity cds, mana wrenches, myriads of class trees, parry/miss/dodge attacks, energy consumption, speed buffs, range on hit/miss, shields, healing, bard buffs, etc. the list goes on.

    These are undeniable factors which contribute to PvP play and again show your lack of experience.

    There is much more going on in WFs and simply balancing based on calculating damage done and KBs is not sufficient whatsoever in addressing the state of PvP balance.
    Last edited by Nnnxia; 08-23-2011 at 02:11 PM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnnxia View Post
    Oh I am a rogue.
    quite the whiny little guy to boot.

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