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Thread: When will warfront outcomes stop being decided by who has more heals?

  1. #1
    Shield of Telara
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    Default When will warfront outcomes stop being decided by who has more heals?

    As much as people cry about lingering wounds being OP, heals are far stronger at the moment. You can tell before the match even starts when it is a loss based only on the number of healers you have vs the other team. If you have 1-3 healers and they have 5 or 6, its going to be a loss no matter how well you manage to get puggers to focus their healers. We've rolled the game back to 1.2...

    Now clerics and chloros like to argue that healers must be able to outheal one dps. I say not true, and in fact being able to keep up with dps alone becomes borderline OP when you factor in multiple healers.

    Simple math:
    Healer puts out more heals than a dps can damage.
    ->Healer effectively negates 1 dps class with some overflow.

    Stacking healers multiplies this problem to the point that the team with 5 or 6 healers might as well have an extra 2 or 3 players. This is why heals cannot ever be greater than what a dps can expect to do. Currently heals outpace dps rather easily even WITH lingering wounds on a target. The only excuse people make for this is that it can be overcome by having more dps focused on the same target. Sorry that does not make things balanced, especially when you factor in the failure of pugs to focus anything. Oh next you'll tell me roll a premade then right? Well the game cannot be balanced around being forced into premade grouping.

    So I ask you Trion, when will one DPS = one Healer?
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  2. #2
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    Try focusing as a team, there are times where heals just can't handle the amount of damage being put out if the team is working as a team and not just attacking random targets or aoeing (which is what healers heal through easily).

  3. #3
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelightt View Post
    Try focusing as a team, (make a premade)
    Pugs cannot be expected to have multiple players focusing on a single target all the time. The game needs to be balanced so that one healer does not outpace one DPS.

    Healing needs to be scaled back or all dps callings need to have lingering wounds, and it needs to be buffed to 60 or 70%.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet View Post
    We’re generally happy with the current state of Warriors and are continuing to monitor a number of smaller issues involving them.
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    General of Telara Sarathor's Avatar
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    In your opinion, the only way to "fix" healing in warfronts is having dps being able to out dps the hps of the healer.

    Then people wouldn't bother being a healer.

    Therefore, that is not a fix, because your fix will just lead to another problem.

    As a Warlock, this is how I can kill Healers. DoT the up, Single Target them, when I see a big heal coming, choke (silence) them. They may pop their break free. They start trying to heal with instants, but those aren't enough to heal through my padding (DoTs) and single target, so they try and cast another long cast heal, meaning I Dark Fury them (stun) which will interrupt it.

    Usually they're dead. If another healer comes up and starts healing, obviously I won't kill either, but it is possible to kill healers, you just have to play smart and find a spec that works for you.

    Sarathor@Byriel Rank 7 Defiant Mage - retired
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  5. #5
    Rift Disciple
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    Pug's can mark targets to help focus...

  6. #6
    Plane Touched Cherrileigh's Avatar
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    So I ask you Trion, when will one DPS = one Healer?
    Never. Why have healers if 1 DPS can kill them? They would be a waste of a spot.
    EVERYBODY DIES, BUT NOT EVERYBODY LIVES.

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara
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    As long as the game is balanced around "nobody will play healers if one dps can kill them", the most healers will always win. It is stupid, and poor logic.

    In other games, it was the responsibility of the healer's group to CC, peel, and kill those who attacked their healers. This game should be the same.

  8. #8
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelightt View Post
    Try focusing as a team, there are times where heals just can't handle the amount of damage being put out if the team is working as a team and not just attacking random targets or aoeing (which is what healers heal through easily).
    The OP has a very good point. Even focusing casters, the heals simply outmatch DPS under alot of circumstances.

    The only tried and true way to drop somebody, most of the time, high end premades, eradicate/LW/train on the FF target is a must. Even still, good teams will adapt to that, and switch to large casted heals vrs HoT and medium cast heals, and in that instance, LW is the only thing to possiably allow a killshot.

    There really is no happy medium atm and no real solution. Nerf LW and whoever has the best geared and skilled healers win. Nerf heals, and we create a death match w/ no healers. I wouldnt mind a death match, but ....
    Quote Originally Posted by Auden View Post
    I think the problem is too many terrible players in Rift that are involved with PVP.

    As well as when they die in PVP, all they see on their screen is the warrior.. not the other 5 ranged classes that assisted him.

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    Champion TheBidnis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatalflaw View Post
    Pugs cannot be expected to have multiple players focusing on a single target all the time. The game needs to be balanced so that one healer does not outpace one DPS.

    Healing needs to be scaled back or all dps callings need to have lingering wounds, and it needs to be buffed to 60 or 70%.
    Yes please force every Cleric into a DPS roll. Only have support heals and that's it. Oh and please just get rid of warriors altogether I don't want the trouble of having them kill me.
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    It takes to long to clear trash and the boss is too hard! Nerf the whole raid!
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatalflaw View Post
    As much as people cry about lingering wounds being OP, heals are far stronger at the moment. You can tell before the match even starts when it is a loss based only on the number of healers you have vs the other team.
    Yup. PVP in Rift comes down to which team has the most heals.

  11. #11
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    I am a healer, focus fire the healers down.....and also, many times if we have a lot of healers we lack dps and don't do well, I see this on a consistent basis.

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    Ascendant Hartzekar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calo View Post
    In other games, it was the responsibility of the healer's group to CC, peel, and kill those who attacked their healers. This game should be the same.
    I can't even get anyone in my WF group to mark our healers so I can protect them. Can't get people away from the Codex meatgrinder. Can't even get some idiots to actually cap the flag in WS.

    Not hap'nin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatalflaw View Post
    Now clerics and chloros like to argue that healers must be able to outheal one dps. I say not true, and in fact being able to keep up with dps alone becomes borderline OP when you factor in multiple healers.

    Simple math:
    Healer puts out more heals than a dps can damage.
    ->Healer effectively negates 1 dps class with some overflow.
    There is no point to play a healer if you can't handle the damage of one dps. You jump my buddy. I try to heal him. He dies. You kill me next. I switch to dps or some other calling.

    There should be nuances to play however. There should be specs that focus on healer killing. They should not do this with raw damage. It should involve interupts, cooldown disablers (decreasing the rate their cooldowns become available), debuffs and so forth.

    Getting these type of abilities should come at the cost of damage, thereby making them weak against classes with out healing and poor at soloing other dps classes.
    Last edited by penumbralcat; 08-22-2011 at 05:32 PM.

  14. #14
    Shield of Telara
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    Interesting that the game is "completely broken" if a single dps can burst down a healer, but the clerics and chloros come rolling through here saying "it's okay, just stack more dps on every target."

    It's broken and needs to be rebalanced. Player HP pools need to be increased significantly in pvp, and heals need to be reduced.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet View Post
    We’re generally happy with the current state of Warriors and are continuing to monitor a number of smaller issues involving them.
    R8 Rogue
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  15. #15
    Plane Walker Keiiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatalflaw View Post
    When will warfront outcomes stop being decided by who has more heals?
    When you play Call of Duty
    Quote Originally Posted by Trisian View Post
    Because it's a lot harder to do damage than it is to heal. You don't have to worry about your targets resisting or dodging or blocking or parrying your efforts. Hell you don't even have to worry about missing. Either you're healing too poor or Trion's short changing you.
    Ixxs-R8 Guardian Cleric-Seastone-<Desolate>

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